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Headline News Thread II: Meanwhile...
- Thread starter dxmnkd316
- Start date
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Counterpoint, even nuclear submarines have used and continue to use game controllers for various applications. A lot of serious exploration subs use them as well.
This dunking on the controller is so painful. You can dunk on the fact that this sub was woefully under-engineered compared to other craft like the DSV Limiting Factor. But the fact that it's a game controller isn't what I'd focus on. You could make the point that this might have been a controller known to be unreliable. That seems like fair game here. But as long as you can map the key functions, it's no different than any other input device.
That said, this entire operation seemed like a fuckin clownshow and the owner gives off serious Red Green vibes. It's obvious there were no deep hazop reviews like you'd see with chemical operations. No contingencies. And oddly enough, I haven't seen anything describing how this thing actually returns to the surface. Both the DSV Limiting Factor and the Deepsea Challenger had galvanic connections to their ballast weights so they'd corrode and automatically resurface after a known amount of time without human input. You'll also notice that they have spherical designs as opposed to the oblong mix of carbon fiber and titanium. Also notice the window design. I understand that pressures at 4 km and 11 km are different animals. But there's a reason they're designed like that.
If I were a betting man, I'd guess the failure was in one of three locations:
1. The window seal
2. The carbon fiber to titanium connection point
3. The carbon fiber itself
I know those seem obvious, but the window design bothered me. The DSV LF and DC both had conical windows that were essentially pushed against the sealing surface. The Titan appeared to have a significantly smaller "aperture" ratio between the large end and smaller end of the cone. Maybe not enough sealing surface.
I still can't get around the fact that there were dissimilar materials and such a small sealing surface. You'll also notice that it's a flat surface perpendicular to the body. I just can't imagine that's the best design given how the windows are designed and how most hatches on these vessels are designed. They all have that inward slope to help use the pressure as a sealing force.
And finally, carbon fiber seems like a wonder-material. I have serious questions though about the ability to use it as a pressure vessel subject to water at that pressure and repeated pressure cycles. I don't know what the failure modes of carbon fiber are or how to inspect them (steel you can x-ray and use dyes to look for cracks, can you do the same with carbon fiber?).
Thankfully, if the vessel failed, it would have been spectacularly fast
edit: If they didn't use a galvanic ballast failsafe, it's a much more horrifying death. CO2 death is very ugly. And it wouldn't surprise me if this guy didn't have that kind of failsafe.
Last edited:
aparch
Well-known member
Speaking of the window... https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/1671233722585174016
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Counterpoint, even nuclear submarines have used and continue to use game controllers for various applications. A lot of serious exploration subs use them as well.
This dunking on the controller is so painful. You can dunk on the fact that this sub was woefully under-engineered compared to other craft like the DSV Limiting Factor. But the fact that it's a game controller isn't what I'd focus on. You could make the point that this might have been a controller known to be unreliable. That seems like fair game here. But as long as you can map the key functions, it's no different than any other input device.
That said, this entire operation seemed like a ****in clownshow and the owner gives off serious Red Green vibes. It's obvious there were no deep hazop reviews like you'd see with chemical operations. No contingencies. And oddly enough, I haven't seen anything describing how this thing actually returns to the surface. Both the DSV Limiting Factor and the Deepsea Challenger had galvanic connections to their ballast weights so they'd corrode and automatically resurface after a known amount of time without human input. You'll also notice that they have spherical designs as opposed to the oblong mix of carbon fiber and titanium. Also notice the window design. I understand that pressures at 4 km and 11 km are different animals. But there's a reason they're designed like that.
If I were a betting man, I'd guess the failure was in one of three locations:
1. The window seal
2. The carbon fiber to titanium connection point
3. The carbon fiber itself
I know those seem obvious, but the window design bothered me. The DSV LF and DC both had conical windows that were essentially pushed against the sealing surface. The Titan appeared to have a significantly smaller "aperture" ratio between the large end and smaller end of the cone. Maybe not enough sealing surface.
I still can't get around the fact that there were dissimilar materials and such a small sealing surface. You'll also notice that it's a flat surface perpendicular to the body. I just can't imagine that's the best design given how the windows are designed and how most hatches on these vessels are designed. They all have that inward slope to help use the pressure as a sealing force.
And finally, carbon fiber seems like a wonder-material. I have serious questions though about the ability to use it as a pressure vessel subject to water at that pressure and repeated pressure cycles. I don't know what the failure modes of carbon fiber are or how to inspect them (steel you can x-ray and use dyes to look for cracks, can you do the same with carbon fiber?).
Thankfully, if the vessel failed, it would have been spectacularly fast
edit: If they didn't use a galvanic ballast failsafe, it's a much more horrifying death. CO2 death is very ugly. And it wouldn't surprise me if this guy didn't have that kind of failsafe.
dx I was joking about the controller being a main issue as a lead-in/snark. The video even as short as it is presents an operation that was at best half-assed from the very beginning.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
https://link.chtbl.com/PfEpG8sX?sid=d
Ok, there were more than just the pipe thing. Seven different types of ballast release mechanisms each with a different failure mode.
They imploded.
Ok, there were more than just the pipe thing. Seven different types of ballast release mechanisms each with a different failure mode.
They imploded.
aparch
Well-known member
I'm not. Was the loss of life tragic? Absolutely.
Was this preventable? Absolutely.
I may feel more remose if it was better organized. But this was the equivalent of strapping the Spruce Goose to a V2 rocket, giving you a bicycle helmet and grandma's oxygen tank, and wishing you the best of luck on your space flight.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
I'm listening...
ticapnews
Never Forget!
On one side you have inhumane parasites who torture the innocent for fun and will lead to the destruction of humanity and on the other you have orcas.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
I'm sick to my stomach because it gives me a feeling of claustrophobia not because I don't think it was ill-advised or wasn't dangerous. People died. It makes me sick to my stomach as an engineer because this was an engineering failure.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
The pilot was the owner and inventor of the vessel.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
That's gotta be awkward.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
It wasn't a failure. It was an unscheduled disassembly.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Lmao. They identified two of the three things I mentioned.
Carbon fiber failure
Window pressure failure
Only thing they didn't mention was the flat perpendicular sealing surface.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Only awkward for the few fractions of second between the first failure and everyone on board dying.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
I am going to feel as much remorse for the deaths of three billionaires as they feel for the tens of thousands of Americans who die every year because they can't afford health care. I'm going to feel as sad as they feel when they see people destroyed by the financial ruin left in their wake so they can be Smaug and sleep on a horde of wealth.
bronconick
Yep, still here
They probably committed suicide.