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Gulf Oil Spill 2010

Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

Red Cloud said:
He wasn't rewarded for screwing up. He wasn't even really rewarded at all if you consider that he would have made way more money as a successful CEO than he would as one who was told to GTFO or get fired. His prior successes as a manager dictated that he could command a solid golden parachute clause in his contract - in essence, the money he is being given out now is a further reward for things he previously accomplished.
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I understand, most people are going to look at the gulf and say he should get the shaft not 18 million, no matter what he did previously at BP.
 
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

walrus said:
I understand, most people are going to look at the gulf and say he should get the shaft not 18 million, no matter what he did previously at BP.
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Perhaps if we posted the definition of perception?

Nah, that would never work.
 
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
RC: were you in any way annoyed by the bonuses given to bank execs after the bailouts? Just curious...
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MNS is right, they're not the same thing, but I'll answer anyway.

I blame the government wholeheartedly for that mess. First off, I was not a fan of the bailouts in the first place, but both administrations royally screwed the pooch when it came to the bailouts. They should have been put forward with a caveat requiring the corporations in question to restructure executive contracts if they were going to help themselves to the public trough. Those bonuses wouldn't have been paid out if the companies had gone under (ultimately, that's one of the reasons why I opposed the bailouts - they allowed the federal government to gain control over private sector businesses).

However, since they specifically didn't... I know it's not a terribly popular position, but I feel like then it became a situation similar to the BP issue. If that bonus is in the contract, there's no reason it shouldn't be paid if they've got the means.

Long way of saying that I don't agree that they should have gotten their bonuses if they took government money, but the fact that they did isn't the corporation's fault, it's the government's fault.
 
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

Red Cloud said:
Long way of saying that I don't agree that they should have gotten their bonuses if they took government money, but the fact that they did isn't the corporation's fault, it's the government's fault.
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So what changes do you think we need in the banking industry and regulations, or should we let the market forces be and repeat this fiasco next time letting drag our economy into a depression instead. And I agree with you that we should have let all of them fail then took them over.

And quotes about lawful contracts can be boiled down to "greed is good". words like fairness, merit, deserve, honor, duty, morals, ethics gets thrown out when we talk about business practices and corrupt pay.
 
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

BP shoulda been smart enough to have outs in the contract in case this sort of thing happened. Apparently, they didn't.
 
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

Tundra said:
So what changes do you think we need in the banking industry and regulations, or should we let the market forces be and repeat this fiasco next time letting drag our economy into a depression instead. And I agree with you that we should have let all of them fail then took them over.
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I'm not discussing this in this thread. A semi-related question was asked, and I answered it. Take your agenda elsewhere.

And quotes about lawful contracts can be boiled down to "greed is good". words like fairness, merit, deserve, honor, duty, morals, ethics gets thrown out when we talk about business practices and corrupt pay.
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Oh, I get it. You're in the Andrea Dworkin interpretation of capitalism. She famously declared that all sex was rape, the corresponding interpretation of capitalism is that all profit is exploitation and corruption. People like you make me giggle while I eat breakfast.

Brenthoven said:
BP shoulda been smart enough to have outs in the contract in case this sort of thing happened. Apparently, they didn't.
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Mostly true. I mean, consider high level multi-national executives to be a lot like a free agent in sports. They have to be getting a compensation package that they are satisfied with, or they'll find someone else who will. Consider Hayward to be the high-priced pitcher with a 6.85 ERA and you'll understand where I'm coming from. Hayward is to BP as Carl Pavano was to the Yankees.
 
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

Brenthoven said:
BP shoulda been smart enough to have outs in the contract in case this sort of thing happened. Apparently, they didn't.
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They'll be fine. This is their in-house counsel, but every one of them was on Law Review at Columbia:
rockettes.jpg
 
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

Red Cloud said:
Mostly true. I mean, consider high level multi-national executives to be a lot like a free agent in sports. They have to be getting a compensation package that they are satisfied with, or they'll find someone else who will. Consider Hayward to be the high-priced pitcher with a 6.85 ERA and you'll understand where I'm coming from. Hayward is to BP as Carl Pavano was to the Yankees.
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Exactly - Hayward's "market price" was apparently a guaranteed $XM. If BP had tried to put stipulations such as not ***** up the planet, Hayward probably would have either left to find a company who would guarantee him the $XM, or he would have asked BP for a non-guaranteed $(X+Y)M.
 
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

Red Cloud said:
Mostly true. I mean, consider high level multi-national executives to be a lot like a free agent in sports. They have to be getting a compensation package that they are satisfied with, or they'll find someone else who will. Consider Hayward to be the high-priced pitcher with a 6.85 ERA and you'll understand where I'm coming from. Hayward is to BP as Carl Pavano was to the Yankees.
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Fine with your analogy. then we need to put a salary cap. And bonuses should be based on merit (ERA RBI wins/losses playoff champion etc)... instead of whatever contracts the board gives out to their friends. And since the board is controlled by management (the players), congress probably needs New laws and regulations to protect shareholders (owners).

Hayward actually got shafted. the severance package is pathetic for an oil executive. $18 million compared to $400 million for Exxon Mobil ceo in 2007 ... the largest retirement package up till that time. And both oversaw massive spill damage.
 
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

Tundra said:
Fine with your analogy. then we need to put a salary cap. And bonuses should be based on merit (ERA RBI wins/losses playoff champion etc)... instead of whatever contracts the board gives out to their friends.
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I'm sorry, this is up to the people who own businesses to decide for themselves. It's not for the government to say who is making too much money. There's no such thing as making too much money. Money isn't owned by the government, and they don't get to decide how much of it we're allowed to keep.

And since the board is controlled by management (the players), congress probably needs New laws and regulations to protect shareholders (owners).
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It seems to me you don't understand in the slightest idea how corporations function if you think the board is controlled by management.

Yes, the shareholders are the owners. They are represented by the board of directors (like the management of a pro team) who hire the employees (the players). If the board is choosing bad employees, it falls to the shareholders to correct the situation by holding the board accountable. Instead, you seem to think the shareholders need to be protected from the people they employ? That's genius.
 
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

Don't worry RC, Hayward is inviting us all to join in his pity party:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703578104575397483256188088.html

I love how much pouting he, and all his supporters back in the UK, is putting forth about how "unfairly" he's been treated by the US government and media.

Personally, I don't give a rip about whether the cleanup efforts by BP have been adequate or not. The more I read about this, the closer to the mark I think my comparison to that "Steve J./S. Jobs" company from two pages ago is.

Of all the issues that the rig had, and all the concerns about the pipes being inadequate, and all the problems the drill had going into high pressure areas... and yet they continued to move forward with it. You want to guess who's call it was to keep going? I'm not saying it was Hayward specifically, but someone at BP gave the OK to keep going on this project, despite having a lot of people saying that they shouldn't.

But yeah, no one should be ticked off at these people...
 
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
Don't worry RC, Hayward is inviting us all to join in his pity party:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703578104575397483256188088.html

I love how much pouting he, and all his supporters back in the UK, is putting forth about how "unfairly" he's been treated by the US government and media.

Personally, I don't give a rip about whether the cleanup efforts by BP have been adequate or not. The more I read about this, the closer to the mark I think my comparison to that "Steve J./S. Jobs" company from two pages ago is.

Of all the issues that the rig had, and all the concerns about the pipes being inadequate, and all the problems the drill had going into high pressure areas... and yet they continued to move forward with it. You want to guess who's call it was to keep going? I'm not saying it was Hayward specifically, but someone at BP gave the OK to keep going on this project, despite having a lot of people saying that they shouldn't.

But yeah, no one should be ticked off at these people...
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This line from the article is what bothers me.

He added: "In America, the road back will be long but I believe achievable when the whole truth of the accident finally emerges and the Gulf coast is restored....BP can rebuild faster in America without Tony Hayward as its CEO."
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That's pure arrogance and defiance there. That's a man who thinks he's not responsible for those 11 lives and all that damage while at the same time managing a company known for cutting corners in safety and environmental concerns.
 
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

ScoobyDoo said:
That's pure arrogance and defiance there. That's a man who thinks he's not responsible for those 11 lives and all that damage while at the same time managing a company known for cutting corners in safety and environmental concerns.
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Of course he doesn't. Conservative dogma of the last 30 years is that CEOs and CFOs are brilliant Masters of the Universe. When times are good we owe it all to them. When times are bad it's either an act of God or it's actually our fault for getting in their way. We even elected (sort of) twice (kind of) a President who believed this about Himself and His class, and that worked out great.

Essentially, this.
 
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

75% of the oil magically disappeared and you think Obama isn't the next coming. What else could explain it.
 
Re: Gulf Oil Spill 2010

walrus said:
75% of the oil magically disappeared and you think Obama isn't the next coming. What else could explain it.
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The media hearing large numbers and pooping themselves over the thought of a pullitzer covering this story? That in fact the numbers were inflated to begin with?
 
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