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Golf thread

Proud2baLaker said:
Bullsh1t. It's entirely the morality and where the money comes from that makes this awful. I don't care about the status quo. I'd be totally fine with the PGA trying some different formats. I'm fine with prize money going up (though I also think all professional sports/athletes make entirely too much money). I don't agree that the US ignores it's dark history. One side does. But that side is fucking morons who are trying to whitewash anything and everything. One side ignores how billionaires make their money. The other knows it's been off the backs of others and wants to make that change.

this so called league is attempt at sportwashing. To try to distract from their awful regime. They throw enough money around and they can buy anything. It has everything to do with the sport. It's fucking **** and I refuse to support it and lost any respect I had for those players involved.
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You're not wrong.... But this has been a thing for a LONG time on the world stage...

I love the FIFA World Cup... But I'm also aware of Qatar's track record. So they will make their money off me because I want to watch the US and the other teams compete... That tournament DOES NOT have clean hands...

Same thing with several attempts with the Olympics over the years. This is not a new thing. And with modern media, anyone with a brain can see what's going on behind the scenes. So I feel if you can acknowledge that, you can enjoy your sports entertainment.
 
Ignoring the whole crappy league thing, the one thing that has really opened my eyes recently- where in the world is all of that PGA TV money going?????? Tiger Woods is one of the most successful golfers all time, and his prize money has been $125M. I would wager a bet that he's made less money golfing than Tom Brady in the same time period, even though Tiger has been on national TV much longer (given how golf is covered) than Tom..

And the guys who finish last get nothing on the PGA tour.

Given that the fields of each event is less than 150, my gut tells me that there's a fraction of the golfers that get TV time compared to the number of NFL players who do the same. But the total amount of time on TV is a LOT more for Golf than football.

Unless the PGA is gifting the coverage to ESPN and CBS, there's a TON of money missing relative to other sports for the actual athletes.

As sickening as the LIV tournament is, one can understand why someone would accept $125k for finishing last as opposed to nothing has having to still pay expenses.
 
MichVandal said:
Ignoring the whole crappy league thing, the one thing that has really opened my eyes recently- where in the world is all of that PGA TV money going?????? Tiger Woods is one of the most successful golfers all time, and his prize money has been $125M. I would wager a bet that he's made less money golfing than Tom Brady in the same time period, even though Tiger has been on national TV much longer (given how golf is covered) than Tom..

And the guys who finish last get nothing on the PGA tour.

Given that the fields of each event is less than 150, my gut tells me that there's a fraction of the golfers that get TV time compared to the number of NFL players who do the same. But the total amount of time on TV is a LOT more for Golf than football.

Unless the PGA is gifting the coverage to ESPN and CBS, there's a TON of money missing relative to other sports for the actual athletes.

As sickening as the LIV tournament is, one can understand why someone would accept $125k for finishing last as opposed to nothing has having to still pay expenses.
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Tour winnings aren't an athletes sole source of income though. In fact, tour winnings are basically gravy.

Their real paycheck(s) come from sponsorship deals. Same deal as in auto racing where a team doesn't survive on race winnings...
 
RaceBoarder said:
Tour winnings aren't an athletes sole source of income though. In fact, tour winnings are basically gravy.

Their real paycheck(s) come from sponsorship deals. Same deal as in auto racing where a team doesn't survive on race winnings...
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I know that. The same can be said of every single other professional athlete. How many times have we seen that stupid discount double check?

My point is that compared to other professional sports, there's a lot of money that golfers are not getting from just playing the sport. For instance, Aaron Rodgers will get more in 3 seasons than Tiger Woods in his entire career. When there are a ton more professional football players, they get similar TV time, and Rodgers has one SB?

Given so much of their income is the exact same medium- where in the world has that TV money for golf gone? Heck, even hockey players make more. Seems that there is a lot of money that the actual entertainers are not getting. Which is probably the major reason golfers are so willing to turn their heads.
 
Don’t forget that there are 272 regular season NFL games, and in 2021, the average TV viewership was 17.1M. (https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/...n-Viewers.aspx). Tack on 13 playoff games at the same viewership (way conservative), and with the average length of a game is 3.2 hours (https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other...lasts-13626956), so that’s 15.6B person-hours each season. Other fun stat: of the 100 most-watched TV shows last year, 75 were NFL games. (https://www.sportico.com/business/m...0-most-watched-broadcasts-of-2021-1234657845/)

There are only 48 PGA events each year, each of which gets 4 days of coverage, so that’s 192 days. Last year, the opening day of the PGA championship got 1.5M viewers (https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/202...ound-20-years/), a 20-year high. The final round got 5.2M. I couldn’t find good stats for non-major tournaments, but it seems like their final round coverage might get around 2M viewers. If the ratio is the same, that would put opening round viewership around 0.6M. So even if we (very) generously say that the 176 days of non-major coverage get 1M viewers and the 16 days of major coverage get 4M, and each telecast lasts 6 hours, that’s only 1.4B person- hours watching golf.
 
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MichVandal said:
I know that. The same can be said of every single other professional athlete. How many times have we seen that stupid discount double check?

My point is that compared to other professional sports, there's a lot of money that golfers are not getting from just playing the sport. For instance, Aaron Rodgers will get more in 3 seasons than Tiger Woods in his entire career. When there are a ton more professional football players, they get similar TV time, and Rodgers has one SB?

Given so much of their income is the exact same medium- where in the world has that TV money for golf gone? Heck, even hockey players make more. Seems that there is a lot of money that the actual entertainers are not getting. Which is probably the major reason golfers are so willing to turn their heads.
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I think the PGA tour is run like NASCAR back in the day where each tournament sets up their own tv deal. If they negotiated as a package deal they would probably get more. Also, each tournament is run as a charity and the proceeds go there.

I hate the schedule on the PGA tour now. They should move the PGA championship back to August, bring back firestone, and move the tour championship and playoffs back to September/October. Also, the Mercedes championship first weekend of January should always be the first event of the season.
 
Drew S. said:
I think the PGA tour is run like NASCAR back in the day where each tournament sets up their own tv deal. If they negotiated as a package deal they would probably get more. Also, each tournament is run as a charity and the proceeds go there.

I hate the schedule on the PGA tour now. They should move the PGA championship back to August, bring back firestone, and move the tour championship and playoffs back to September/October. Also, the Mercedes championship first weekend of January should always be the first event of the season.
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The PGA has such a deal. It will collect about $700 million from CBS, NBC (Golf Channel) and ESPN between now and 2030.

Players do receive an appearance fee from the PGA (not a lot) but the purses are a combination of money from the PGA and the sponsors for each event.
 
LynahFan said:
Don’t forget that there are 272 regular season NFL games, and in 2021, the average TV viewership was 17.1M. (https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/...n-Viewers.aspx). Tack on 13 playoff games at the same viewership (way conservative), and with the average length of a game is 3.2 hours (https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other...lasts-13626956), so that’s 15.6B person-hours each season. Other fun stat: of the 100 most-watched TV shows last year, 75 were NFL games. (https://www.sportico.com/business/m...0-most-watched-broadcasts-of-2021-1234657845/)

There are only 48 PGA events each year, each of which gets 4 days of coverage, so that’s 192 days. Last year, the opening day of the PGA championship got 1.5M viewers (https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/202...ound-20-years/), a 20-year high. The final round got 5.2M. I couldn’t find good stats for non-major tournaments, but it seems like their final round coverage might get around 2M viewers. If the ratio is the same, that would put opening round viewership around 0.6M. So even if we (very) generously say that the 176 days of non-major coverage get 1M viewers and the 16 days of major coverage get 4M, and each telecast lasts 6 hours, that’s only 1.4B person- hours watching golf.
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I use the NFL because it's obvious, but how does it compare to the NHL, where salaries are considerably higher?

Even with the "arrangement" for payments, the pure amount of time golfers get on TV, and how valuable that time actually is, there sure seems that there's a considerable amount of money that is missing. That goes for the "charities" that profit from the tournaments.

Watching sports salaries rise so much for everyone else, where's the equivalent rise in golf? The PGA brags about how accessible golf is, but when you see the bottom end literally earn nothing, it sure seems like a hard profession to make a living on. Whereas the bottom end of every other sport do quite well.

Again, this isn't to support the LIV thing, but now that the numbers are coming out....
 
Proud2baLaker said:
Bullsh1t. It's entirely the morality and where the money comes from that makes this awful. I don't care about the status quo. I'd be totally fine with the PGA trying some different formats. I'm fine with prize money going up (though I also think all professional sports/athletes make entirely too much money). I don't agree that the US ignores it's dark history. One side does. But that side is fucking morons who are trying to whitewash anything and everything. One side ignores how billionaires make their money. The other knows it's been off the backs of others and wants to make that change.

this so called league is attempt at sportwashing. To try to distract from their awful regime. They throw enough money around and they can buy anything. It has everything to do with the sport. It's fucking **** and I refuse to support it and lost any respect I had for those players involved.
Click to expand...

This new league is crap. But the PGA's been in China since 2014 so it's been sportswashing crap for a while. So it's a question on how much crap one wants to eat.
 
MichVandal said:
I use the NFL because it's obvious, but how does it compare to the NHL, where salaries are considerably higher?

Even with the "arrangement" for payments, the pure amount of time golfers get on TV, and how valuable that time actually is, there sure seems that there's a considerable amount of money that is missing. That goes for the "charities" that profit from the tournaments.

Watching sports salaries rise so much for everyone else, where's the equivalent rise in golf? The PGA brags about how accessible golf is, but when you see the bottom end literally earn nothing, it sure seems like a hard profession to make a living on. Whereas the bottom end of every other sport do quite well.

Again, this isn't to support the LIV thing, but now that the numbers are coming out....
Click to expand...

Purses have gone up considerably over the years, but they are weighted heavily towards the top of the pyramid (like a poker tournament). For example, in order to make as much as the guaranteed appearance fee at the Saudi Golf League this weekend, a player has to finish T-19 or better at the Canadian Open. Likewise, of the money awarded at the FedEx Cup ($75 million) half goes to the top five.

One of the reasons the money doesn't get dispersed more evenly is that there is no golfing union. They are all independent contractors and are paid and treated accordingly. Expenses such as travel are borne entirely by the player. The other sports leagues do have unions, thus each team employs players and there are things like a salary floor and a league minimum salary.

To make up for that, players have a much better chance to cash in with sponsorship deals than all but the top stars in the other leagues. Everything they wear from head to toe is sponsored. The companies do this because the golfer spends so much time on TV they get "free" advertising. A lot of the sponsors have dropped golfers who have gone to the Saudi Golf League, not for anything noble but, because no one is going to be watching so (for instance) the KPMG sponsorship deal for Phil Mickelson no longer makes financial sense. Not that Phil is going to care with his reported $200 million appearance fee.

As for the charities, the PGA says it has given over $3.3 billion to various charities over the years.
 
ticapnews said:
Purses have gone up considerably over the years, but they are weighted heavily towards the top of the pyramid (like a poker tournament). For example, in order to make as much as the guaranteed appearance fee at the Saudi Golf League this weekend, a player has to finish T-19 or better at the Canadian Open. Likewise, of the money awarded at the FedEx Cup ($75 million) half goes to the top five.

One of the reasons the money doesn't get dispersed more evenly is that there is no golfing union. They are all independent contractors and are paid and treated accordingly. Expenses such as travel are borne entirely by the player. The other sports leagues do have unions, thus each team employs players and there are things like a salary floor and a league minimum salary.

To make up for that, players have a much better chance to cash in with sponsorship deals than all but the top stars in the other leagues. Everything they wear from head to toe is sponsored. The companies do this because the golfer spends so much time on TV they get "free" advertising. A lot of the sponsors have dropped golfers who have gone to the Saudi Golf League, not for anything noble but, because no one is going to be watching so (for instance) the KPMG sponsorship deal for Phil Mickelson no longer makes financial sense. Not that Phil is going to care with his reported $200 million appearance fee.

As for the charities, the PGA says it has given over $3.3 billion to various charities over the years.
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Outside of the Saudi thing, it should seem pretty obvious why golfers will take money they know is coming.

In terms of the charities- how many years is that $3.3B spread out? It seems like a lot, but relative to professional sport salaries- the total salary cap for the NHL is ~$2.6B per season. So depending on how may years that was spread out- it's either very significant if it's 1-5 years, pretty good for 5-10, meh for 10-20, and not much beyond that. Given the source, I'd wonder if that's over the life of the PGA- which means that's over a VERY long time. And God help us if one of those "charities" is the United Way or others like that who pay a massive salary to the people running it.

As for the Saudi thing, I do hope that China isn't a big bother to you- unless you think they don't suppress and murder their own citizens. I don't like the Saudis at all, but to single them out in this world where we buy so much stuff from a far more oppressive State, well... let's not get to tied up in our underwear. And seeing that WNBA players have to go to Russia to make up the lost salary that the WNBA doesn't pay...
 
MichVandal said:
Outside of the Saudi thing, it should seem pretty obvious why golfers will take money they know is coming.

In terms of the charities- how many years is that $3.3B spread out? It seems like a lot, but relative to professional sport salaries- the total salary cap for the NHL is ~$2.6B per season. So depending on how may years that was spread out- it's either very significant if it's 1-5 years, pretty good for 5-10, meh for 10-20, and not much beyond that. Given the source, I'd wonder if that's over the life of the PGA- which means that's over a VERY long time. And God help us if one of those "charities" is the United Way or others like that who pay a massive salary to the people running it.

As for the Saudi thing, I do hope that China isn't a big bother to you- unless you think they don't suppress and murder their own citizens. I don't like the Saudis at all, but to single them out in this world where we buy so much stuff from a far more oppressive State, well... let's not get to tied up in our underwear. And seeing that WNBA players have to go to Russia to make up the lost salary that the WNBA doesn't pay...
Click to expand...

According to the PGA website the money for charity is "to date" so from 1968 until today. Bear in mind that TV rights fees were almost non-existent for most of that time. The reported $700 million between 2021-2030 was a 60% increase over the last deal.

The ship has sailed on getting upset about human rights. We kill our own citizens right here at home. We have a higher percentage of our population in prison than anywhere else on the planet. We have bombed five continents (we'll get you yet, Australia) and have slaughtered countless civilians around the globe. At this moment we are helping starve the people of Yemen. Granted, we don't do the crap Saudi Arabia does, but just wait until 2025.

I do object to these mercenaries helping a murderer sportswash his regime. Unlike in other countries, they are taking money directly from him. When you contract to China, you are not doing business with Winnie the Pooh. People do not do business with the CIA. It is private companies. While I'm not enamored with franchise owners like Jerry Jones or John Henry, at least they don't carve up an investigative journalist with a bone saw.
 
ticapnews said:
According to the PGA website the money for charity is "to date" so from 1968 until today. Bear in mind that TV rights fees were almost non-existent for most of that time. The reported $700 million between 2021-2030 was a 60% increase over the last deal.

The ship has sailed on getting upset about human rights. We kill our own citizens right here at home. We have a higher percentage of our population in prison than anywhere else on the planet. We have bombed five continents (we'll get you yet, Australia) and have slaughtered countless civilians around the globe. At this moment we are helping starve the people of Yemen. Granted, we don't do the crap Saudi Arabia does, but just wait until 2025.

I do object to these mercenaries helping a murderer sportswash his regime. Unlike in other countries, they are taking money directly from him. When you contract to China, you are not doing business with Winnie the Pooh. People do not do business with the CIA. It is private companies. While I'm not enamored with franchise owners like Jerry Jones or John Henry, at least they don't carve up an investigative journalist with a bone saw.
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Agree with every single word.
I started to watch golf not that long time ago and i finally understand why people like it so much.
My next challange is to fix my buffering firestick https://www.firesticktricks.com/fix-firestick-buffering.html and rewatch all the important tournaments for the past five years.
 
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The oldest winner of the British Open was Old Tom Morris. The youngest winner of the British Open was Young Tom Morris.

OK that story checks out.
 
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