What's new
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Can't help but like how the GWOT has trended. Its been sidelined and taken out of public view...while there's been progress.

We still would rather have it just end than have us continue to 'win'. But to date, this is a vast improvement.
 
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Can't help but like how the GWOT has trended. Its been sidelined and taken out of public view...while there's been progress.

We still would rather have it just end than have us continue to 'win'. But to date, this is a vast improvement.
Agreed. Well stated here by Sullivan.

This administration actually is what the Bush administration claimed to be: a relentless executor of the war in terror, armed with real intelligence and lethally accurate execution. Sure, Yemen's al Qaeda is not the core al Qaeda of Pakistan/Afghanistan - it's less global in scope and capacities. But to remove one important propaganda source of that movement has made all of us safer. And those Americans who have lived under one of Awlaki's murderous fatwas can breathe more easily today.

The same goes for al Qaeda more generally. Obama has done in two years what Bush failed to do in eight. He has skilfully done all he can to reset relations with the broader Muslim world (despite the machinations of the Israeli government) while ruthlessly wiping out swathes of Jihadist planners, operatives and foot-soldiers in Afghanistan and Pakistan. He has thereby strengthened us immeasurably both in terms of soft and hard power.

Compare the two presidents. One unleashed a war in Afghanistan he then left to languish, and sparked an unjustified war in Iraq, that became a catastrophe of mass death and chaos. He both maximally antagonized the Arab and Muslim world and didn't even score a major victory against the enemy. In many ways, Bush gave al Qaeda an opening in Iraq where it never had one before, and allowed its key leadership to escape at Tora Bora. The torture program, meanwhile, fouled up our intelligence while destroying our moral standing in the world.

Obama has ended torture and pursued a real war, not an ideological spectacle. He has destroyed almost all of al Qaeda of 9/11 (if Zawahiri is taken out, no one is left), obliterated its ranks in Afghanistan and Pakistan, found and killed bin Laden, in a daring raid pushed relentlessly by the president alone, capturing alongside a trove of intelligence, procured as a consequence of courage and tenacity rather than cowardice and torture.

I know the next election will be about the economy. But what it should also be about is the revelation of the Republicans as fundmentally weak on national security. Caught up in their own ideology, they proved for eight years they'd rather posture and preen than do the intelligent, relentless, ethical intelligence work that is only now leading to victory.

Obama, in other words, is winning the war Bush kept losing. And since Cairo, we have witnessed the real flowering of democratic forces in the Middle East - unseen during the Bush-Cheney years. For all the tireless efforts of the Israelis to cripple US foreign policy against Jihadism, Obama has done the job. If he fails to make this case in the next election, he will, in my judgment, be blowing an important opportunity to reinforce a structural advantage against the GOP on national security.

Brains > brawn. As always. But also as always, that's a very hard argument to get across to those segments of the electorate that resent the former and dribble over the latter.
 
Last edited:
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Pretty good "defense" so far.

The list of senior terrorists killed during the Obama presidency is fairly extensive.

There’s Osama bin Laden, of course, killed in May.

Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) leader Anwar al-Awlaki as of today.

Earlier this month officials confirmed that al Qaeda’s chief of Pakistan operations, Abu Hafs al-Shahri, was killed in Waziristan, Pakistan.
In August, ‘Atiyah ‘Abd al-Rahman, the deputy leader of al Qaeda was killed.

In June, one of the group’s most dangerous commanders, Ilyas Kashmiri, was killed in Pakistan. In Yemen that same month, AQAP senior operatives Ammar al-Wa’ili, Abu Ali al-Harithi, and Ali Saleh Farhan were killed. In Somalia, Al-Qa’ida in East Africa (AQEA) senior leader Harun Fazul was killed.

More at link.
 
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Yeah, I'm kinda wondering where all the knuckledraggers are on this thread.....

Obama's decimation of Al Quada will go down in history as one of the top military operations since the Second World War. A smarter, quieter, and more ruthless pursuit than his predecessor's has literally left these a-holes with nowhere to hide. Given their penchant for doing to opposite of a Dem admin at any cost, one has to wonder how a Perry or Romney admin would perform in this area.
 
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

...one has to wonder how a Perry or Romney admin would perform in this area.

Get us involved in another decades long war that will cost plenty in terms of blood and treasure.
 
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Agreed. Well stated here by Sullivan.



Brains > brawn. As always. But also as always, that's a very hard argument to get across to those segments of the electorate that resent the former and dribble over the latter.

As always, tendentious twaddle brought to us by a pipsqueak libtard who obsesses (endlessly) over who Trig Palin's "real" mother is. The guy has zero credibility. Field Marshall Obama now wants to take credit for our victory in Iraq. Hey, he was in the room. His opposition to the surge, his assertion, in fact, that the war was "already lost," is to be airbrushed out of the record. I give high marks to the president and the chain of command for eliminating that pustule Al Awlaki. Another jihadist pos gone. That's great. But what you rewriters of history seem to forgert is that AQ flooded into Iraq and were slaughtered in their thousands. Just a "detail" to be sure, but an important one. While the president's successes in the drone killings of AQ leaders is significant, it is beyond ignorant to compare these militarily limited, highly technical attacks, with the prosecution of full out land based combat in two countries. Major league apples and oranges here. But hey, that election's coming, isn't it?
 
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

As always, tendentious twaddle brought to us by a pipsqueak libtard who obsesses (endlessly) over who Trig Palin's "real" mother is. The guy has zero credibility. Field Marshall Obama now wants to take credit for our victory in Iraq. Hey, he was in the room. His opposition to the surge, his assertion, in fact, that the war was "already lost," is to be airbrushed out of the record. I give high marks to the president and the chain of command for eliminating that pustule Al Awlaki. Another jihadist pos gone. That's great. But what you rewriters of history seem to forgert is that AQ flooded into Iraq and were slaughtered in their thousands. Just a "detail" to be sure, but an important one. While the president's successes in the drone killings of AQ leaders is significant, it is beyond ignorant to compare these militarily limited, highly technical attacks, with the prosecution of full out land based combat in two countries. Major league apples and oranges here. But hey, that election's coming, isn't it?

Typical modesty, BTW "We're smarter than they are and instead of doing what we tell them to do, they resent us." Military action is a combination of "brains" and "brawn." As in, "don't bring a knife to a gun fight." Because if you do, all of your alleged intellectual accomplishments won't amount to spit. Don't you ever get tired of positioning yourself as so superior to everyone else you have to climb down off the cross to communicate with us? Or am I being too "political?" Or do you actually believe it?

Anyway, a tip of the hat to the president. As they say in the Navy: "Well done." It's just so entertaining when we apply 21st century technology to rid the world of these 8th century pests.
 
Last edited:
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Yeah, I'm kinda wondering where all the knuckledraggers are on this thread.....

Obama's decimation of Al Quada will go down in history as one of the top military operations since the Second World War. A smarter, quieter, and more ruthless pursuit than his predecessor's has literally left these a-holes with nowhere to hide. Given their penchant for doing to opposite of a Dem admin at any cost, one has to wonder how a Perry or Romney admin would perform in this area.
Targeted killings? I think they'd try it, too. But how loud the cry would be from the ACLU (and their ilk) vs. now would be interesting.

Nobody's going to get involved in a land war in Asia again.
 
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Targeted killings? I think they'd try it, too. But how loud the cry would be from the ACLU (and their ilk) vs. now would be interesting.

Nobody's going to get involved in a land war in Asia again.

Well, as I understand it, the ACLU filed some sort of action last year when we put Al Awlaki on the targeted list. As usual, they're full of sh*t. Just ask any family member of a Fort Hood victim what THEY think, and you'll have the answer from the overwhelming majority of Americans. Uncle Sam's got a long reach, and a long memory. And it turns out this hit was a "twofer," another American traitor who likes p*ssing in the streets and eating dung got whacked, too. Shazam.

As we applaud the application of our advanced technology to safely remove a threat to the American people, we should keep that happy feeling in mind when certain people try to hollow out our military, defer or eliminate the purchase of new weapons systems and cut back on the research and development that keeps us at the top of the world's military food chain.
 
Last edited:
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Agreed. Well stated here by Sullivan.

"do the intelligent, relentless, ethical intelligence work"
Sorry, but that is a bunch of nonsense. You (of all people) know very well that the real intelligence work needed to pull off a drone strike in Yemen is done far below any level having anything to do with politics. Do you really think a Bush would have made any different decisions than an Obama?

"Mr. President, we found Awlaki and we have drones in the area. Shall we fire?"

You seem to think the Democrat says yes but the Republican says no. Keep dreaming.

A Predator drone first successfully test fired a missile in February, 2001, and late in 2001 we had only 40 operational ones, not all of which had been converted from their primary role of reconnaissance to carry weapons. Today, we have more than 300 and their capabilities have been upgraded tenfold. Obama has options now that Bush didn't then - and he has those options because he's building on the work that has been going on continuously for the past 10 years, some of which was, gasp, overseen by a Republican administration.
 
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Sorry, but that is a bunch of nonsense. You (of all people) know very well that the real intelligence work needed to pull off a drone strike in Yemen is done far below any level having anything to do with politics. Do you really think a Bush would have made any different decisions than an Obama?

"Mr. President, we found Awlaki and we have drones in the area. Shall we fire?"

You seem to think the Democrat says yes but the Republican says no. Keep dreaming.

A Predator drone first successfully test fired a missile in February, 2001, and late in 2001 we had only 40 operational ones, not all of which had been converted from their primary role of reconnaissance to carry weapons. Today, we have more than 300 and their capabilities have been upgraded tenfold. Obama has options now that Bush didn't then - and he has those options because he's building on the work that has been going on continuously for the past 10 years, some of which was, gasp, overseen by a Republican administration.

Whoever figured out marrying the Predators/Reapers with the Hellfire missile, definitely deserves a bonus. My favorite use was when we clipped Mohammed Atef, major AQ wheel. As I understand it, the Predator blew his house to smithereens then climbed to a safe altitude to watch the action. And when crowds of scumbags showed up to see if they couldn't dig old Muhammed's body out of the wreckage, we hit 'em AGAIN! Now everybody gets the virgins. Whoopee.

Giving the green light for that kind of mission is something only the president can do. I've posted before about the political flack Reagan got when it turned out he'd gone to bed during the first shoot down of Libyan MiGs. He had done what only POTUS can do, issued the order. "If they act with hostile intentions, splash 'em." Now in the West Wing Jed Bartlett heads down to the sit room, and scratches his b*lls for the next twelve hours, waiting for something to happen. But we have a world wide chain of command. A SecDef, a JCS. And if anybody didn't understand the president's order they were free to ask for a clarification. That being the case, Reagan got some Z's.
 
Last edited:
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Didn't the intelligence gathering on the Osama compound begin during Bush's presidency?
 
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Didn't the intelligence gathering on the Osama compound begin during Bush's presidency?

Probably. We don't start with a clean slate everytime somebody takes the oath. The work goes on 24/7. I think in our rush to credit one guy and discredit another we do serious injustice to brave, dedicated, incredibly intelligent people who are working very hard to keep us safe and one step ahead of the bad guys.
 
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

You seem to think the Democrat says yes but the Republican says no.
Oh for Pete's sake. Ask yourself a question: does that sound like the argument I would make? Then see the context of the statement in the article. Here's my gloss:

The Neocons thought they were in an episode of 24, because they so desperately wanted to be -- it's that what their whole dullard life philosophy is: "shut up," he explained. That's why they forced torture down the throats of the intel community even though everybody told them it would waste time and resources and of course completely destroy every fair-minded neutral's opinion of us. But they didn't give a crap, they already knew what they were going to do, just as with Iraq. They were criminals, but worse for us, they were bunglers.

This isn't really "yay, Obama," it's "yay, return to sanity." From that cut-rate derp-da-derp SS with delusions of Christianist martyrdom we've returned to American normalcy -- mostly effective, mostly lawful, mostly moral, dealing with the gray areas and not kidding ourselves. As long as the backwash of Neoconservatism gets nowhere near power ever again, we will be fine, regardless of which party happens to have titular control of the government. That's what there is to celebrate, and it remains great news. That was a really, really awful bunch of thugs, and they caused a staggering amount of damage to America, and to have gotten free of them and repaired some of that damage is an American success story.

I have only one bone to pick politically. Nobody made the GOP give those apes a home -- circa 1975 it was still a toss-up which party they would infect. The RNC did it for short-term political gain to give them the leverage to enact their other agenda items, and we all paid the price. They were losers and they pursued losing methods. There is a big difference, and we are seeing it reflected in events. It's a Good Thing they're mostly dead, and hopefully even conservatives have learned enough to finish the job of killing off their influence in this country.
 
Last edited:
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Oh for Pete's sake. Ask yourself a question: does that sound like the argument I would make? Then see the context of the statement in the article. Here's my gloss:

The Neocons thought they were in an episode of 24, because they so desperately wanted to be -- it's that what their whole dullard life philosophy is: "shut up," he explained. That's why they forced torture down the throats of the intel community even though everybody told them it would waste time and resources and of course completely destroy every fair-minded neutral's opinion of us. But they didn't give a crap, they already knew what they were going to do, just as with Iraq. They were criminals, but worse for us, they were bunglers.

This isn't really "yay, Obama," it's "yay, return to sanity." From that cut-rate derp-da-derp SS with delusions of Christianist martyrdom we've returned to American normalcy -- mostly effective, mostly lawful, mostly moral, dealing with the gray areas and not kidding ourselves. As long as the backwash of Neoconservatism gets nowhere near power ever again, we will be fine, regardless of which party happens to have titular control of the government. That's what there is to celebrate, and it remains great news. That was a really, really awful bunch of thugs, and they caused a staggering amount of damage to America, and to have gotten free of them and repaired some of that damage is an American success story.

I have only one bone to pick politically. Nobody made the GOP give those apes a home -- circa 1975 it was still a toss-up which party they would infect. The RNC did it for short-term political gain to give them the leverage to enact their other agenda items, and we all paid the price. They were losers and they pursued losing methods. There is a big difference, and we are seeing it reflected in events. It's a Good Thing they're mostly dead, and hopefully even conservatives have learned enough to finish the job of killing them off in this country.

Pity we don't all have your "nuanced" view of the world. BTW, was there a Neocon on the grassy knoll?
 
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Where did the word Derp come from?, its getting a little overused, isn't it?
 
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Where did the word Derp come from?, its getting a little overused, isn't it?

Yes. I'm getting really tired of it. It would have been much more effective if it wasn't completely overused in the past six months. It has no meaning anymore, no matter who uses it.
 
Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

Oh for Pete's sake. Ask yourself a question: does that sound like the argument I would make? Then see the context of the statement in the article.
Well, at this time, I have no idea what point you're trying to make. You agree that Bush wouldn't have done anything different than Obama in this situation, and yet you're using this situation as an occasion to go on about how Obama is awesome and Bush was crap. It makes no sense.

Here's my gloss:

The Neocons thought they were in an episode of 24, because they so desperately wanted to be -- it's that what their whole dullard life philosophy is: "shut up," he explained. That's why they forced torture down the throats of the intel community even though everybody told them it would waste time and resources and of course completely destroy every fair-minded neutral's opinion of us. But they didn't give a crap, they already knew what they were going to do, just as with Iraq. They were criminals, but worse for us, they were bunglers.

This isn't really "yay, Obama," it's "yay, return to sanity." From that cut-rate derp-da-derp SS with delusions of Christianist martyrdom we've returned to American normalcy -- mostly effective, mostly lawful, mostly moral, dealing with the gray areas and not kidding ourselves. As long as the backwash of Neoconservatism gets nowhere near power ever again, we will be fine, regardless of which party happens to have titular control of the government. That's what there is to celebrate, and it remains great news. That was a really, really awful bunch of thugs, and they caused a staggering amount of damage to America, and to have gotten free of them and repaired some of that damage is an American success story.

I have only one bone to pick politically. Nobody made the GOP give those apes a home -- circa 1975 it was still a toss-up which party they would infect. The RNC did it for short-term political gain to give them the leverage to enact their other agenda items, and we all paid the price. They were losers and they pursued losing methods. There is a big difference, and we are seeing it reflected in events. It's a Good Thing they're mostly dead, and hopefully even conservatives have learned enough to finish the job of killing off their influence in this country.
So out of all of this, the only actual distinction that I can see you are drawing between the two administrations is that one of them waterboarded some (fewer than 10) guys, which, by the way, turned out NOT to be a slippery slope toward jack-booted thugs on every streetcorner and black helicopters circling overhead. But you know what? Bush never ordered an American citizen to be killed, either, which is also a tactic of questionable legal standing. And yet, somehow Bush's questionable tactic makes him the devil and Obama's makes him an angel. Your bias is so transparent, it should be used to manufacture laser optics.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top