What's new
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Is white Hispanic on the census form? I never heard of a white Hispanic until this case.

I believe the "credit" for that formulation belongs with the NYT, which has a vested interest in keeping the "white guy kills innocent black kid (with "Skillets") narrative going as long as possible. If Zimmerman is "white," then so is the president.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Agree 100%.

From what I've read, Zimmerman sure seemed to be the aggressor in this situation. HE was the one to confront Martin, was he not?

If there's a trial, the jurors will decide the answer to that question. As I posted last night, Dershowitz thinks the charging document is so legally insufficient that there's a good chance a judge will throw the whole thing out. Admittedly that would take a brave judge. And Dershowitz is an opinion machine. But he is a lawyer, and a very prominent one at that, who has won some very big cases along the way (right, Claus?), so maybe we ought to give his opinion some credit.

Was this community watch organization in compliance with whatever rules apply in Florida? Was it recognized by the management of the complex? Zimmerman was licensed to carry that gun, which means he had to jump through some hoops to get the license. Possibly some training on its use. I was in a Fry's grocery store a week ago and a guy dressed like Paul Brinigar in "Rawhide" was fondling the vegetables, wearing a belt with a holstered six shooter on one hip and a Bowie knife on the other. Nobody was paying him a bit of attention (except possibly me).

I've posted before about this magical belief gun types have that "if only somebody had been armed it would have turned out differently." What they NEVER consider is the "difference" they're talking about could mean a higher body count of innocents. Sure, if some kid at Virginia Tech had been armed, maybe he could have gotten Woo Tang Klan between the antlers. But your average college kid, in an extraorinarily tense, target rich environment is just as likely to miss or hit someone else, IMO. Am I supposed to feel a constitutional glow because some ATO pledge hit my daughter in the face?
 
Last edited:
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

What they NEVER consider is the "difference" they're talking about could mean a higher body count of innocents. Sure, if some kid at Virginia Tech had been armed, maybe he could have gotten Woo Tang Klan between the antlers. But your average college kid, in an extraorinarily tense, target rich environment is just as likely to miss or hit someone else, IMO. Am I supposed to feel a constitutional glow because some ATO pledge hit my daughter in the face?

The other thing that's usually ignored: you have to think the police really appreciate arriving at a chaotic scene with several gunshot victims, where multiple shooters have taken cover and are trying to pick each other off. The police I've seen interviewed invariably say that they would appreciate the added challenge. It's just too easy when you don't have to worry about which one is the bad guy.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Re: race, just because the police didn't give the shooter a break because he's white doesn't mean that they failed to fully prosecute a crime against a black victim.

Maybe the trial will turn up a good reason why the police didn't pursue anything. But until that happens, I think you have to give a pass to the black community. Based on the available evidence, they have a right to be pizzed.

As for the bad intentions of Zimmerman -- in an ideal world, they'd be irrelevant. The police would have brought Zim in, conducted a full investigation, and left it to a grand jury to make the call whether there was enough evidence for a formal charge.

As I understand it, the hate crime angle was just a pragmatic strategy to get a legal foothold for holding the police accountable, via (federal) supremacy.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Re: race, just because the police didn't give the shooter a break because he's white doesn't mean that they failed to fully prosecute a crime against a black victim.

Maybe the trial will turn up a good reason why the police didn't pursue anything. But until that happens, I think you have to give a pass to the black community. Based on the available evidence, they have a right to be pizzed.

As for the bad intentions of Zimmerman -- in an ideal world, they'd be irrelevant. The police would have brought Zim in, conducted a full investigation, and left it to a grand jury to make the call whether there was enough evidence for a formal charge.

As I understand it, the hate crime angle was just a pragmatic strategy to get a legal foothold for holding the police accountable, via (federal) supremacy.

Sadly, in minds of some, everytime a black is killed by a white, it is not automatically a hate crime, but probably is. From where I sit, whenever a black guy kills a white it's NEVER a hate crime, but that's a different argument for a different thread. IMO, that's why there's been so much attention paid to the question of whether or not Zimmerman uttered a racial slur. He apparantly said "effing punks," which some creative types have said sounds like "effing c*ons" (an amazingly old fashioned insult for such a young guy).It's been amusing to hear CNN and others say words to the effect that "we've been unable to come to a consensus as to what, exactly, he said." Yeah. Because if they could, they'd be assuring us he DID use a slur, so that means he absolutley didn't.

That story about Zimmerman leafleting in black neighborhoods, buttonholing worshippers on their way out of church, to demand justice in the case of a cop killing involving a homeless black dude, if true, doesn't exactly argue that he's a racist. And honesty requires us to take notice that he's had black defenders all along. Again, not exactly what you'd expect if he were a murderous racist. Not dispositive. But if he were a racist, you would have expected that we would have heard about it by now.
 
Last edited:
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

I also think we can't discount that fact that Florida is a backwards, sh ! tty state that has trouble doing basic governmental tasks right, be it prosecutions (Casey Anthony) or even counting votes.....

Land Of Losers
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

All of these questions about injuries will be cleared up by actual witnesses, under oath, who either saw or treated Zimmerman. If he sought medical help for his nose the next day (as has been reported) then there will surely be a record of his visit, x-rays, and a doctor who can testify about his diagnosis. This will take it out of the hands of Chris Mathews and other wanna-bes, but will nevertheless be dispositive.

I don't want to over-simplify the case, but from my armchair this seems to be a significant key to all of this. If they can demonstrate that Zimmerman had bruises it will significantly increase his defense case, support the argument he was acting in self-defense and perhaps negate any arguments about whether or not he should have been there in the first place/initiated said confrontation.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

If there's a trial, the jurors will decide the answer to that question. As I posted last night, Dershowitz thinks the charging document is so legally insufficient that there's a good chance a judge will throw the whole thing out. Admittedly that would take a brave judge. And Dershowitz is an opinion machine. But he is a lawyer, and a very prominent one at that, who has won some very big cases along the way (right, Claus?), so maybe we ought to give his opinion some credit.

Was this community watch organization in compliance with whatever rules apply in Florida? Was it recognized by the management of the complex? Zimmerman was licensed to carry that gun, which means he had to jump through some hoops to get the license. Possibly some training on its use. I was in a Fry's grocery store a week ago and a guy dressed like Paul Brinigar in "Rawhide" was fondling the vegetables, wearing a belt with a holstered six shooter on one hip and a Bowie knife on the other. Nobody was paying him a bit of attention (except possibly me).

I've posted before about this magical belief gun types have that "if only somebody had been armed it would have turned out differently." What they NEVER consider is the "difference" they're talking about could mean a higher body count of innocents. Sure, if some kid at Virginia Tech had been armed, maybe he could have gotten Woo Tang Klan between the antlers. But your average college kid, in an extraorinarily tense, target rich environment is just as likely to miss or hit someone else, IMO. Am I supposed to feel a constitutional glow because some ATO pledge hit my daughter in the face?

I believe so. Though when the police came and met with the neighborhood watch association, they explicitly told them not to do some of the things Zimmerman did (carry guns, follow "suspects", etc.).
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Interestingly enough, despite all the handwringing about this being a radical vs radical discussion (nationally) there seems to be more common ground than not in general (in this thread) and perhaps the basket destined for hell has been temporarily delayed.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Interestingly enough, despite all the handwringing about this being a radical vs radical discussion (nationally) there seems to be more common ground than not in general (in this thread) and perhaps the basket destined for hell has been temporarily delayed.

We've been pretty responsible. A word generally not in use to describe "The Reverands" or the New Black Panther Party, or the Nazis or any other exrtremist group or indiviual who are attaching themselves to this case like barnacles. That goes double for MSNBC, which figures deliberately lying on Zimmerman is acceptable "journalism." BTW, there was a lot of blog talk a few days about about Nazis and "armed patrols." The police deny it. I'm wondering if there really are or have been Nazis patrolling. Or is this more of the hyperbole surrounding this sad event? With a bow to Jake Blues: "I hate Illinois Nazis (or Nazis from any other state)."
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

personally, I feel like the nation stepped up to the brink on this one, looked down and took a step back. scary stuff from both sides.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

personally, I feel like the nation stepped up to the brink on this one, looked down and took a step back. scary stuff from both sides.

The sad irony is this incident didn't have to take place. Trayvon's girl friend says she told him to run. The 911 dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that," when Zimmerman said he was following the kid. If each had acted on that advice, nothing would have happened.

There have been a tiny handful of horrific incidents. I'm thinking particularly of the 15 year old Latino kid stomped so badly by a half a dozen black kids that teeth were literally kicked from his head. They said they were doing it for Trayvon. Again, miniscule sample size. And you're basically right, IMO. Only a small fringe of Americans have the "forever Selma" outlook that nothing's changed and the whole nation is racist. However, that's what keeps the biscuits and gravy on "The Reverands'" plates (along with the "skillets.")
 
Last edited:
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

There have been a tiny handful of horrific incidents. I'm thinking particularly of the 15 year old Latino kid stomped so badly by a half a dozen black kids that teeth were literally kicked from his head. They said they were doing it for Trayvon.

Oh dear. :(
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

There have been a tiny handful of horrific incidents. I'm thinking particularly of the 15 year old Latino kid stomped so badly by a half a dozen black kids that teeth were literally kicked from his head. They said they were doing it for Trayvon. Again, miniscule sample size. And you're basically right, IMO. Only a small fringe of Americans have the "forever Selma" outlook that nothing's changed and the whole nation is racist. That's what keeps the biscuits and gravy on "The Reverands'" plates (along with the "skillets.")
Thanks Al and Jesse!!!!

If what's known to the public is all the case they have...he should walk on Murder 2. And it will be ugly. Really ugly. Like, Mark Alt ugly.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

i love biscuits and gravy :D

Me too, especially with sausage in the gravy. And red beans and rice. And chicken and waffles. And crawfish cooked in Zataran's crab boil. What was it that idiot Pat Robertson said recently: "is mac and cheese a black thing?"
 
Last edited:
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Thanks Al and Jesse!!!!

If what's known to the public is all the case they have...he should walk on Murder 2. And it will be ugly. Really ugly. Like, Mark Alt ugly.

There are very few racist a*sholes, white or black, as a percentage of the population. But this is a country of over 300 million people, which means numerically, there are quite a few of 'em. If Zimmerman is acquitted, he better move to Montana.
 
Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

I think he'd fit in nicely with the racist hicks in Texas and Arizona.
 
Back
Top