Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

[duper]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

The reason why Zimmerman wasn't hurt worse, apparantly, is that he shot and killed the kid. If he had not, there might have been a death all right, but Trayvon.

Is that apparent? My thoughts were that what happened is, in fact, NOT apparent.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

I don't disagree with the spirit of your point. Certainly, this law oversimplifies situations which are usually murky and should be sorted out by a court of law.

That said, it's still possible that Zimmerman was in fact acting in self-defense and would be not guilty of murder even in a state that doesn't have a stand your ground law. Each case/situation is different and just because the premise that the law is based upon is flawed doesn't mean that every act of self defense is nefarious.

Well said.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

The point is that this is not really about this case. This is about the process.

With the general approach of stand your ground, it doesn't matter what happened at the site. By definition, Martin was perceived as a threat. Once that happened, his death was acceptable by law with no opportunity for justice. Stand your ground means that whoever can escalate an altercation to murder first, gets away with their life and is forgiven by law.

Here is another example in Arizona. The killer is known, was never tried and walks free today simply because of stand your ground:

About 7:30 p.m., a 22-year-old man and his girlfriend ordered food at the Taco Bell drive-thru and were told to pull up while their order was prepared.
At the same time, 29-year-old Daniel Adkins stepped around a corner into the path of the vehicle and angry words were exchanged between he and the driver.

They got into an altercation and Adkins was shot once by the driver. He died at the scene. The driver, a 22-year-old black male, called police.

At first, the couple claimed that Adkins had a metal pipe that he swung at them — but it turns out he was holding a dog leash with his yellow lab on the other end. The dog, Lady, stayed by Adkins’ side until the Humane Society came. Adkins lived with his mom and dad. He’s 29, but his family says he’s mentally disabled and has the mental capacity of a 12-year-old. He didn’t drive, and walked wherever he went. A metal pipe or bat was never located. An independent witness did say Adkins swung his fists in the driver’s direction.

“He swung his fist towards the driver window, and at some point the driver shot him,” says Phoenix Police Sgt. Tommy Thompson. Police did not arrest the suspect due to Stand Your Ground laws.

More:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/29/us/stand-your-ground/index.html

You've posted these pathetic annecdotes previously I believe. And the answer now is the same as then. If these were miscarriages of justice (in a country well north of 300 million citizens) then it could be worth looking into. And if this is such a big problem, why the same pathetic annecdotes over and over again? And you steadfastlly refuse to provide any annecdotes showing that innocent people defended themselves legally and prevented themselves from being killed. Nothing like that ever happen?

Murder is a legal term. Zimmerman has been accused of murder, but not convicted. So "killing" would be the proper term to use. Unless you've already made up your mind. In which case it isn't entirely a matter of "process," is it? Is it likely that if Zimmerman was black and Trayvon white you'd be squealing quite at loudly and as often? I kinda doubt it.

Again, if you're going to provide quotes, you really should provide the source, too.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Holy reach Batman!

The liberal media is using this story to get Obama re-elected?

Is there an alternative explanation for their behavior? I'd love to hear it. Why don't you start with the "I think he's black" edit used by NBC. Or the editing out of Zimmerman saying "okay" after the dispatcher suggested he not follow Martin.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Is it likely that if Zimmerman was black and Trayvon white you'd be squealing quite at loudly and as often? I kinda doubt it.

You are waay too hung up on racism. I'm sure I would feel completely differently if Zimmerman was black...even though I'm the only one here who seems to be po'd that a BLACK shooter was let off in the Adkins case.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

You are waay too hung up on racism. I'm sure I would feel completely differently if Zimmerman was black...even though I'm the only one here who seems to be po'd that a BLACK shooter was let off in the Adkins case.

His Racistness and his enablers in the media made this about race, from the first. In one breath you accuse me of being "waay too hung up on racism." In the next, you suggest you deserve racial brownie points for your heroic stand in the "Adkins case."

Anyone who suggests this case hasn't been about race from the moment it burst on the national scene is living in a parallel universe.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Despite the strenuous efforts of America's racists, from Obama, to the media to the "Reverands," there is exactly zero evidence that Zimmerman is biased or acted in a biased manner. In fact, despite lies, use of old photos (was Trayvon really 12?) and creative tape editing, the available evidence is that Zimmerman is a guy with black and latino friends and relatives, who has reached out to and befriended black residents of his "gated community." This narrative of Zimmerman being another David Duke is total crap. But we've seen this before, haven't we? Gangs of whites burning black churches? White jocks at Duke "raping" a black "exotic dancer?" Cut me some slack, Jack.

The disgusting prospect of Obama's thoroughly discredited Justice Department bringing "hate crimes" charges against Zimmerman (to pump up the black vote in a swing state) is repellant.

Hyperbole thy name is Old Pio. This has nothing to do with Obama (aside from your hangups) nor anecdotes about white gangs and privileged lacrosse players. If you ever came into a discussion without preconceived notions it might be possible to take you seriously, but you don't so we can't. Zimmerman is far from a hero and facts show he's had issues when it comes to using common sense and temperament. Doesn't make him guilty (he very well may not be) but of course you've already acquitted him so I don't know why I even bother.

 

[walrus]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Hyperbole thy name is Old Pio. This has nothing to do with Obama (aside from your hangups) nor anecdotes about white gangs and privileged lacrosse players. If you ever came into a discussion without preconceived notions it might be possible to take you seriously, but you don't so we can't. Zimmerman is far from a hero and facts show he's had issues when it comes to using common sense and temperament. Doesn't make him guilty (he very well may not be) but of course you've already acquitted him so I don't know why I even bother.

Of course. And when His Balancedness rushed to the cameras to proclaim that if he had a son "he would look like Trayvon," that wasn't injecting race in this matter. And the silence from the WH over a dozen or more incidents where white people have been beaten by black people, who made some sort of reference to "Trayvon" is deafening. And that's not injected race into the matter either. You'll remember His Racistness did the same thing for his pal, Professor Skip Gates at Harvard, opining that the police in that redneck enclave known as Cambridge "acted stupdily."

Let's see: "nothing to do with Obama." Let's deconstruct that. Our beloved president, His Oneness, appears to be in a political fight for his life. Florida is a swing state. A sharp increase in black turnout in Florida in 2000 came within an eyelash of making Al Gore president. Based on that, there's no possible way His Racistness or his surrogates want to stir up black voters in Florida. Nope. Not a chance.

The behavior of the media and "The Reverands" is well documented and takes a strenuous amount of will to deny or downplay. "This is Al "Skillets" Sharpton. I spent my entire day in Florida raising phony race issues and money and rabble rousing as only I can. And with a report on my day, here's me."

Zimmerman has no convictions. But you want to pump enough air in his bad judgement with a cop in a bar several years ago to create "probable cause" that he's the racist ogre the left (and presumably you) has endeavored to make him. In your world, defending Zimmerman against lies and smears is an effort to make him a "hero." Actually, it is only an effort to set the record straight. Something which has been sorely lacking in the media coverage of this event until just recently, when the lies were exposed and defending them became impossible (except for the die hards here).

And you make my case when you refer to the Duke lacrosse players as "privileged." Don't forget, they were also white and jocks, too. Sort of hitting for the left wing bigotry cycle. After that case collapsed and was shown to be a huge miscarriage of justice, some of our die hard posters continued to suggest "they must have done something wrong." And the fact that you dismiss that case by referring to them as "privileged" kinda gives away the store, don't you think? The Slap Shot Theorem: "Black kids of modest means getting some "Skillets" deserve justice, "privileged" white jocks, not so much."

My notions are no more or less preconcieved than yours. And in this instance my preconceptions are about the same as that well known right winger Professor Alan Dershowitz. And I can tell you why you "bother," even though you claim not to know: you're looking for the pony. He's got to be in there somewhere. Keep shoveling, you'll find him.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Okay, I wet myself laughing. I hope you're happy.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Zimmerman had two black eyes, a broken nose, facial bruising and cuts to the back of his head. the back of his shirt was wet and grass stained.

case over.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Zimmerman had two black eyes, a broken nose, facial bruising and cuts to the back of his head. the back of his shirt was wet and grass stained.

case over.

Link? Video showed nothing of the sort.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Link? Video showed nothing of the sort.

Another video diagnosis. "He doesn't look injured to me." This is more than just typically pathetic. It is award winning pathetic.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Link? Video showed nothing of the sort.

Don't worry you won't find any. There are no known proven photos of any injuries and photos of his arrest a month later show absolutely no signs of any bruise.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Another video diagnosis. "He doesn't look injured to me." This is more than just typically pathetic. It is award winning pathetic.

I sure wish i could run my medical practice doing video diagnoses. having to actually see all these patients live is getting sort of time consuming.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Don't worry you won't find any. There are no known proven photos of any injuries and photos of his arrest a month later show absolutely no signs of any bruise.

Wow, I didn't realize you were on either the defense or prosecution teams and hence privy to all the evidence in the case.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Zimmerman had two black eyes, a broken nose, facial bruising and cuts to the back of his head. the back of his shirt was wet and grass stained.

case over.

Agreed. Unless they can create some perception that the medical folks who reported this are somehow compromised. Which probably can't be done with facts, but could be done through media hysteria.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Agreed. Unless they can create some perception that the medical folks who reported this are somehow compromised. Which probably can't be done with facts, but could be done through media hysteria.

Medical folks is exactly correct. Several people would have to be in on this. Not to mention a faked x-ray and all the rest. And why would they do it? This case didn't become a cause celebre until weeks later. You can count on the race hustlers to allege "coverup," "conspiracy" and all the rest. Was Zimmerman's doctor white? I thought so.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Don't worry you won't find any. There are no known proven photos of any injuries and photos of his arrest a month later show absolutely no signs of any bruise.

"Proven" photos? I smell a resurrection of "badge man." Too bad Jean Hill has passed, she could have provided you with some valuable conspiracy wingnut tips.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

I sure wish i could run my medical practice doing video diagnoses. having to actually see all these patients live is getting sort of time consuming.

Yeah. Especially grainy, surveillance tape. Doc, in your experience do bruises show up instantly, or do they take some time to develop? The point being, the absence of apparant bruising immediately after the event isn't "proof" that there wasn't any bruising, right? Some of our "doctors" curiously, seem to be unaware.