Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

[TimP]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

How does the fact that the Sue play in a building named after Ralph Engelstad honor the Sioux name in a respectful dignified manner?

Didn't that racist pig Engelstadt treaten to cut off funding for the new arena if the school dumped its racist name and logo?

 

[TimP]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

The adjective "Fighting" is the STEREOTYPE. Please don't make me explain how stereotyping affects races of people. Again, the Sioux (Lakota, Dakota, Santee or any other extraction) were not a warlike people or even WARRIORS. Within any group there were certainly men who's job it was to protect and/or fight when necessary. But that was far less important to their culture than it is for .. um ... AMERICA who has been at war somewhere for easily half of it's existence as a nation.

No, the issue is the word "Sioux." It's a racist term given to them by the European conquerors to brand all the natives as savages. In the eyes of the white Amerikan, "Fighting Sioux" is redundant. And don't get me started on that ridiciulous cartoon logo they use.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

No, the issue is the word "Sioux." It's a racist term given to them by the European conquerors to brand all the natives as savages. In the eyes of the white Amerikan, "Fighting Sioux" is redundant. And don't get me started on that ridiciulous cartoon logo they use.

Read the whole thread. Or at the very least all my contributions to it before you walk in and stupidly take issue with something I've said.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

No, the issue is the word "Sioux." It's a racist term given to them by the European conquerors to brand all the natives as savages. In the eyes of the white Amerikan, "Fighting Sioux" is redundant. And don't get me started on that ridiciulous cartoon logo they use.

You mean the "ridiculous" logo that was designed by a Native American? That particular logo?

 

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

No, the issue is the word "Sioux." It's a racist term given to them by the European conquerors to brand all the natives as savages. In the eyes of the white Amerikan, "Fighting Sioux" is redundant. And don't get me started on that ridiciulous cartoon logo they use.

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/na-sioux.html

The name Sioux derives from the Chippeway word "Nadowessioux" which means "Snake" or "Enemy."

So you are saying that the Chippewa were Native American European Conquerors that wanted to brand themselves as savages.

Thank you TimP! Now I more fully understand why the Chippewa were enemies of the Sioux.

Being European Conquors, what part of Europe did the Chippewa conquer?

 

[Happy]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

You mean the "ridiculous" logo that was designed by a Native American? That particular logo?

Drawing was never a strong point for a people who never invented paper.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

I fail to see much connection between a group of college ice hockey players and a group of plains Indian tribes.
It would seem if UND truly wished to honor anyone it would be their biggest benefactor and fan, thus "The Fighting Englestads."

 

[Patman]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/na-sioux.html


So you are saying that the Chippewa were Native American European Conquerors that wanted to brand themselves as savages.

Thank you TimP! Now I more fully understand why the Chippewa were enemies of the Sioux.

Being European Conquors, what part of Europe did the Chippewa conquer?

I thought the native americans were a peaceful people that participated in great athletic events and giant ceremonial hugs? Don't tell me that's wrong.

Second. What about UAA? The seawolf is taken from American Indian culture as well, do they have permission to use it? Is it not hostile and abusive?

Frankly, I'd have a hard time respecting a seamonster that WASN'T hostile and abusive.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

Given the fact that fighting has mostly disappeared from college hockey, they should certainly remove that part of the nickname. How many fighting majors does the average team get in a season now? One? Two?

 

[Patman]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

Given the fact that fighting has mostly disappeared from college hockey, they should certainly remove that part of the nickname. How many fighting majors does the average team get in a season now? One? Two?

I know, Notre Dame really needs to get onto it.

 

[MavHockey14]

I never thought I'd live to see those words.

That makes 2 of..er wait..all of us..

Good to see you around again MF!

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Given the fact that fighting has mostly disappeared from college hockey, they should certainly remove that part of the nickname. How many fighting majors does the average team get in a season now? One? Two?

According to your fanbase we should get one or two a game...

 

[cross cheque]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

And here we get a pretty good example of stereotyping. Can anyone else identify it? OK OK .. I'll just tell you. Believing that somehow native peoples of Alaska cannot be self-sufficient in modern culture and require the help of gracious white people ...

Alaskan aboriginal people were somewhat lucky in that the same sort of invasion, defeat and repression didn't occur on anywhere near the same level as it did in the west. Slightly more progressive attitudes ruled the day by the time we white people got up here in significant enough numbers. That said, they have been and continue to be subjected to isolated acts of racism and stereotyping.

C'mon Donald answer the question. Surely your conquest to rid the United States of native american oppression doesn't end merely at words on a fan forum?! You must contribute to the relief of these great people's sufferings in some other way?

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

Back to the topic, and useful suggestions. Honor those who have honored you. No support for "The Fighting Englestadts", probably none for "The Chippy Englestadts," regardless of the appropriateness of the nickname.
How about "The Politically Correct Englestadts?" The irony is too exquisite to reject.

 

[Jeo]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

I fail to see much connection between a group of college ice hockey players and a group of plains Indian tribes.
It would seem if UND truly wished to honor anyone it would be their biggest benefactor and fan, thus "The Fighting Englestads."

So you see a connection between college ice hockey players and Tigers? Bulldogs? Gophers? Badgers? Seawolves?

 

[Jeo]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

Excellent ...


Did I say the NCAA is a good thing? No.

You did not specifically say that, however saying "If UND doesn't want to be part of it they should resign from it." is ridiculous. If no one stands up to rules they disagree with than the people in power will always overstep themselves.

First; using a facet of a local indigenous culture versus calling themselves the Fighting Dena'ina is the difference. It is the adjective that is the primary problem here. An example: Anchorage's newest convention center is called The Dena'ina Civic and Convention Center .... not The Drunken Dena'ina Civic and Convention Center.

So you are fine with them keeping the Sioux and Logo as long as they drop the Fighting part?

Adopting a symbol (and quite frankly .. the Seawolf is actually a fairly obscure myth in Dena'ina culture) from a culture versus uses a decapitated head as a symbol are completely different things.

I agree that that point of mine was a bit of a stretch. However saying that they use a decapitated head as a symbol is a ludicrous statement. The symbol drawn by a Native American is clearly not a decapitated head and to say it is, is insulting to the creator and your own intelligence.

The adjective "Fighting" is the STEREOTYPE. Please don't make me explain how stereotyping affects races of people. Again, the Sioux (Lakota, Dakota, Santee or any other extraction) were not a warlike people or even WARRIORS. Within any group there were certainly men who's job it was to protect and/or fight when necessary. But that was far less important to their culture than it is for .. um ... AMERICA who has been at war somewhere for easily half of it's existence as a nation.

And Fighting Irish is not a stereotype? Get real

I thought my Ethiopian invasion of Ireland remark was as obvious a piece of sarcasm as I've ever written on any public forum. I made it as exposition of one thing ... The Irish were not some existing indigenous tribe invaded, defeated and repressed by some foreign racial group.

Just because the people who invaded, defeated, and repressed them had the same color skin does not mean that its somehow okay.

 

[bigmrg74]

True, but it is a mirror of the University's wishes anyways (and they are not a monopoly).

Yeah, but tell me the last time you watched an NAIA Championship game on say ESPN? The NCAA does have a monopoly on Bigtime Collage athletics.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

So you see a connection between college ice hockey players and Tigers? Bulldogs? Gophers? Badgers? Seawolves?

I see a difference between the wild beasts you named and a human society. Men have always adopted the names of animals in the hope that some of the creatures' desired qualities would be gained by adopting the name. Fine. Men have honored heroes, benefactors, and leaders by adopting their names. Fine.
I think we all understand the "Fighting Sioux" handle does not honor native Americans but does intend to borrow a stereotyped quality along with the name from a native American culture. Not so fine.

 

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

I fail to see much connection between a group of college ice hockey players and a group of plains Indian tribes. "

There have been a few atheletes that played for UND that had Native American blood. Because the name was associated with their ancestry it inspired them to play better, and also inspired others to get an education.

http://seattlejrtotems.pucksystems2.com/page/show/43476-t-j-oshie

Oshie moved from Washington State to play for the Warroad Warriors and then played for the Fighting Sioux.

[Url}http://www.uscho.com/2005/09/28/caught-in-the-controversy[/url]

In 2001, the Minnesota Indian Education Association passed a resolution against UND’s use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo.

“It’s kind of hard for me because that’s who I work for,” Oshie said. “I’m pretty torn on the whole issue. But I think the bottom line in my heart is that the University of North Dakota is helping Native American students by getting them into the medical field and getting more Native Americans involved in college.”
As one of the first members of his family to attend college, Oshie is a strong believer in the power of education for American Indian children.

“We need to focus more of our time and our efforts on these kids to keep them in school and get them on the path to success,” he said. “Our kids need to be educated. When I ask many students about their aspirations in life, they say, ‘I want to work in the casino and have four or five kids by the time I’m 20.’ It’s unbelievable. There’s no vision of going away to school to better yourself. We need to stop these generational deficiencies.

Fighting Sioux inspiring Native American children to get a better education.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

Syracuse University has closer ties to the Onondaga Indian Nation than UND has to the Sioux. SU wisely abandoned its "Saltine Warrior" nickname years ago. Leaving its stereotypical "fighting Indian" label behind has not harmed SU's fan base, attendance, or the performance of SU's athletic teams, which have won an impressive number of NCAA DI sports championships since changing their nickname. No longer calling themselves "Saltine Warriors" has not discouraged American Indians from attending SU.
The uproar over losing the "Fighting Sioux" handle is not about honor, or sports attendance, or team spirit, or winning, or attracting minority students. It would be nice if it were. It's really about something else which is not nearly as legitimate.