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Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
- Thread starter Noise Inside My Head
- Start date
Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
Who are these fans who applaud the North Dakota government's approval of identity theft? Wanna bet they are the same dudes who carry on about a "smaller, less intrusive government?"
How much more intrusive can government get than giving your name and reputation to someone else - against your expressed wishes?
Who are these fans who applaud the North Dakota government's approval of identity theft? Wanna bet they are the same dudes who carry on about a "smaller, less intrusive government?"
How much more intrusive can government get than giving your name and reputation to someone else - against your expressed wishes?
SoCalSiouxFan
Registered User
Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
You sure ask a lot of really stupid questions. You also seem very ill informed and make a lot of stupid assumptions before you get the answers to your questions.
Most of the state is behind the decision including most Sioux (Lakota and Dakota) Native Americans.
As far as identity theft that is a rediculous argument. Actual Sioux warriors are proudly serving our country in the armed services and buy personal clothing from a store. You must be watching too much Dancing with Wolves, where Sioux warriors ride off accross the open plains hunting buffalo for food and clothing. Get real!
You sure ask a lot of really stupid questions. You also seem very ill informed and make a lot of stupid assumptions before you get the answers to your questions.
Most of the state is behind the decision including most Sioux (Lakota and Dakota) Native Americans.
As far as identity theft that is a rediculous argument. Actual Sioux warriors are proudly serving our country in the armed services and buy personal clothing from a store. You must be watching too much Dancing with Wolves, where Sioux warriors ride off accross the open plains hunting buffalo for food and clothing. Get real!
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Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
Most Sioux are behind it? Really??? And most of the state is behind it...oh yeah, 90% of North Dakota is white, 6% are Native...yeah...we stole your land...we took your name for our hockey team...got anything else???
Here is a prior post:
XXX
This discussion is as old as the board. Hopefully this helps clarify the matter:
'The matter I speak of is the use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname and mascot at UND. As you know we have taken three specific actions in the recent years regarding this matter as a government representing well over 10,000 members. The purpose of this letter is to respectfully remind your office and any other entities. Directly or indirectly associated with UND of our position. It is of course very simple and very clear, "Eliminate and stop the use of the 'Fighting Sioux' nickname and caricature today."
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe
VOTE: YES - 12 NO - 0 NOT VOTING - 1 MOTION CARRIED. 4 - EXCUSED RESOLUTION NO. 078-98
WHEREAS, the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe is an unincorporated Tribe of Indians, having accepted the Indian Reorganization Act of June 18, 1934, with the exception of Article 16; and the recognized governing body of the Tribe is known as the Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Council; and
WHEREAS the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe had issued Resolution No. 356-92 to demand that the University of North Dakota discontinue the use of the name and mascot of the "Fighting Sioux"; and
WHEREAS, the University Administration has stated in the past that such actions, like the racially insensitive ones of October 24, 1992, will not be tolerated on campus; and
WHEREAS the University is sending a Dual Message to the students of UND, by attempting to provide a quality education for its students, but subjects indigenous students, namely those of the Lakota/Dakota Peoples of North America, to continued racial actions, by not changing its "Sioux" and "Fighting Sioux" nicknames; and
NOW THEREFORE LET IT BE RESOLVED, the undersigned Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Council hereby reaffirms the Resolution of December 3, 1992, specifically that the University of North Dakota should discontinue the use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the foregoing resolution shall be effective on this date and shall remain in full force effect thereafter. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Chairman and the Secretary of the Tribal Council are hereby authorized and instructed to sign this resolution for and on behalf of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe.
Standing Rock Tribe
I send you greetings from the Sisseton-Wahpeton Sioux Tribe and its 10,207 Members. The Lake Traverse Reservation has lands in both states of North and South Dakota
The first matter of concern I wish to apprise you of is our support for those efforts that have been ongoing to see the change and elimination of such a nickname. The reason, of course, is simple: Use of a race of people as a nickname or mascot is totally unacceptable and only leads to the dehumanization of their Being, Culture, history and Children.
Sisseton-Wahpeton Sioux Tribe
Our position and I convey respectfully to you is that to stop the use of the "fighting Sioux" mascot and moniker at the University of North Dakota today. As we enter a new century there isn't any justifiable reason to continue to dehumanize a race of people, their history, their culture, and their children today. As a member of this race of people, and as President of the Oglala Sioux Tribe with an estimated population of 40,000, I ask your institution to stop the use of the "fighting Sioux" mascot and moniker.
Oglala Sioux Tribe
Finally, I state that only the Rosebud Sioux Tribe, its people (32,000) and government only speak for us on this matter. Please consider this message to your office and other entities so associated with UND as our position regarding the "fighting Sioux" nickname. We extend our support to those students and others who seek to stop the use of the "fighting Sioux" nickname.
Rosebud Tribe
From the land of the friendly people of the Seven Council Fires we send you greetings. This letter will reaffirm our position in a letter to Chairman Charles Murphy of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe; we hereby reiterate our opposition to the use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname by the university of North Dakota. People and their culture should not be degraded to such use and we ask UND to "do the right thing" and change its "Fighting Sioux" nickname.
Yankton Sioux Tribe
Our position is simple in that we oppose the use of the nickname, and kindly request that UND stop immediately the use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname and/or mascot. It is most offensive to know the use of this nickname, as I understand it results in racial remarks and acts, publicly, in particular at sports events made when UND teams compete.
Crow Creek Sioux Tribe
WHEREAS, the Cheyenne River Sioux Nation respectfully requests the University of North Dakota to do the moral and honorable thing, buy removing and discontinuing the use of the mascot name "the Fighting Sioux", now
THEREFORE LET IT BE RESOLVED, that the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe is respectfully requesting the University of North Dakota to do the moral and honorable thing by removing and discontinuing the use of the mascot name "the Fighting Sioux".
Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Mandan Hidatsa & Arikara Nation supports the aforementioned request to end the University of North Dakota's use of the "Fighting Sioux" name and its accompanying "Indian-head" symbol; and
FINALLY, BE IT RESOLVES, that Mandan Hidatsa & Arikara nation does hereby support this resolution in response to end the national use of stereotypical images that demean, rather than honor American Indian Nations.
Three Affiliated Tribes
XXXX
Sounds like overwhelming support for use of the Sioux name from the tribes!
Most Sioux are behind it? Really??? And most of the state is behind it...oh yeah, 90% of North Dakota is white, 6% are Native...yeah...we stole your land...we took your name for our hockey team...got anything else???
Here is a prior post:
XXX
This discussion is as old as the board. Hopefully this helps clarify the matter:
'The matter I speak of is the use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname and mascot at UND. As you know we have taken three specific actions in the recent years regarding this matter as a government representing well over 10,000 members. The purpose of this letter is to respectfully remind your office and any other entities. Directly or indirectly associated with UND of our position. It is of course very simple and very clear, "Eliminate and stop the use of the 'Fighting Sioux' nickname and caricature today."
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe
VOTE: YES - 12 NO - 0 NOT VOTING - 1 MOTION CARRIED. 4 - EXCUSED RESOLUTION NO. 078-98
WHEREAS, the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe is an unincorporated Tribe of Indians, having accepted the Indian Reorganization Act of June 18, 1934, with the exception of Article 16; and the recognized governing body of the Tribe is known as the Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Council; and
WHEREAS the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe had issued Resolution No. 356-92 to demand that the University of North Dakota discontinue the use of the name and mascot of the "Fighting Sioux"; and
WHEREAS, the University Administration has stated in the past that such actions, like the racially insensitive ones of October 24, 1992, will not be tolerated on campus; and
WHEREAS the University is sending a Dual Message to the students of UND, by attempting to provide a quality education for its students, but subjects indigenous students, namely those of the Lakota/Dakota Peoples of North America, to continued racial actions, by not changing its "Sioux" and "Fighting Sioux" nicknames; and
NOW THEREFORE LET IT BE RESOLVED, the undersigned Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Council hereby reaffirms the Resolution of December 3, 1992, specifically that the University of North Dakota should discontinue the use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the foregoing resolution shall be effective on this date and shall remain in full force effect thereafter. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Chairman and the Secretary of the Tribal Council are hereby authorized and instructed to sign this resolution for and on behalf of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe.
Standing Rock Tribe
I send you greetings from the Sisseton-Wahpeton Sioux Tribe and its 10,207 Members. The Lake Traverse Reservation has lands in both states of North and South Dakota
The first matter of concern I wish to apprise you of is our support for those efforts that have been ongoing to see the change and elimination of such a nickname. The reason, of course, is simple: Use of a race of people as a nickname or mascot is totally unacceptable and only leads to the dehumanization of their Being, Culture, history and Children.
Sisseton-Wahpeton Sioux Tribe
Our position and I convey respectfully to you is that to stop the use of the "fighting Sioux" mascot and moniker at the University of North Dakota today. As we enter a new century there isn't any justifiable reason to continue to dehumanize a race of people, their history, their culture, and their children today. As a member of this race of people, and as President of the Oglala Sioux Tribe with an estimated population of 40,000, I ask your institution to stop the use of the "fighting Sioux" mascot and moniker.
Oglala Sioux Tribe
Finally, I state that only the Rosebud Sioux Tribe, its people (32,000) and government only speak for us on this matter. Please consider this message to your office and other entities so associated with UND as our position regarding the "fighting Sioux" nickname. We extend our support to those students and others who seek to stop the use of the "fighting Sioux" nickname.
Rosebud Tribe
From the land of the friendly people of the Seven Council Fires we send you greetings. This letter will reaffirm our position in a letter to Chairman Charles Murphy of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe; we hereby reiterate our opposition to the use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname by the university of North Dakota. People and their culture should not be degraded to such use and we ask UND to "do the right thing" and change its "Fighting Sioux" nickname.
Yankton Sioux Tribe
Our position is simple in that we oppose the use of the nickname, and kindly request that UND stop immediately the use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname and/or mascot. It is most offensive to know the use of this nickname, as I understand it results in racial remarks and acts, publicly, in particular at sports events made when UND teams compete.
Crow Creek Sioux Tribe
WHEREAS, the Cheyenne River Sioux Nation respectfully requests the University of North Dakota to do the moral and honorable thing, buy removing and discontinuing the use of the mascot name "the Fighting Sioux", now
THEREFORE LET IT BE RESOLVED, that the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe is respectfully requesting the University of North Dakota to do the moral and honorable thing by removing and discontinuing the use of the mascot name "the Fighting Sioux".
Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Mandan Hidatsa & Arikara Nation supports the aforementioned request to end the University of North Dakota's use of the "Fighting Sioux" name and its accompanying "Indian-head" symbol; and
FINALLY, BE IT RESOLVES, that Mandan Hidatsa & Arikara nation does hereby support this resolution in response to end the national use of stereotypical images that demean, rather than honor American Indian Nations.
Three Affiliated Tribes
XXXX
Sounds like overwhelming support for use of the Sioux name from the tribes!
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PCM
New member
Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
Second, I don't recall anyone ever assuming that either the Spirit Lake or Standing Rock tribes would "offer compliance and sanctioned use of the nickname." The only assumption was that the councils of the two tribes might be willing to negotiate a deal with UND that would allow the university to continue to use the Fighting Sioux nickname. Within days after the settlement was announced, members of the two tribes held a news conference at UND to say that they had no intention of changing their position against the nickname and, therefore, negotiations were pointless.
Third, the idea that UND has no "special relationship" with Standing Rock "anywhere close to the extent that FSU has with the Seminole tribe" is, frankly, laughable. The only thing that UND doesn't have that FSU has is permission to use the tribes's name. In all other aspects, the level of services, scholarships and opportunities that UND provides to members of Standing Rock and all other tribes in North Dakota makes FSU's relationship with Florida's Seminole tribe a joke.
This, for the most part, is inaccurate. First, no American Indian tribe in North Dakota -- Sioux or otherwise -- was consulted on the court settlement between the NCAA and the State of North Dakota. This has long been a bone of contention with the tribes.
Second, I don't recall anyone ever assuming that either the Spirit Lake or Standing Rock tribes would "offer compliance and sanctioned use of the nickname." The only assumption was that the councils of the two tribes might be willing to negotiate a deal with UND that would allow the university to continue to use the Fighting Sioux nickname. Within days after the settlement was announced, members of the two tribes held a news conference at UND to say that they had no intention of changing their position against the nickname and, therefore, negotiations were pointless.
Third, the idea that UND has no "special relationship" with Standing Rock "anywhere close to the extent that FSU has with the Seminole tribe" is, frankly, laughable. The only thing that UND doesn't have that FSU has is permission to use the tribes's name. In all other aspects, the level of services, scholarships and opportunities that UND provides to members of Standing Rock and all other tribes in North Dakota makes FSU's relationship with Florida's Seminole tribe a joke.
HoosierBBall_GopherHockey
New member
Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
Attention prospective expansion programs in DI college hockey:
Following North Dakota government's endorsement of allowing unauthorized use of American Indian Tribe names in conjunction with penalized activities in hockey I have applied for copyrights for the following names for hockey teams:
The Boarding Blackfeet
The Charging Chippewa
The Cross-Checking Comanche
The Delay-Of-Game Delaware
The High-Sticking Havasupai
The Holding Hopi
The Interfering Iroquois
The Kicking Kickapoo
The Slashing Seneca
The Spearing Soshoni
The Tripping Tuscarora
The Unsportsmanlike-Conduct Utes
[I have decided to leave "butt-ending" in the public domain.]
If you wish to use one of these nicknames for your team they are for sale.
Attention prospective expansion programs in DI college hockey:
Following North Dakota government's endorsement of allowing unauthorized use of American Indian Tribe names in conjunction with penalized activities in hockey I have applied for copyrights for the following names for hockey teams:
The Boarding Blackfeet
The Charging Chippewa
The Cross-Checking Comanche
The Delay-Of-Game Delaware
The High-Sticking Havasupai
The Holding Hopi
The Interfering Iroquois
The Kicking Kickapoo
The Slashing Seneca
The Spearing Soshoni
The Tripping Tuscarora
The Unsportsmanlike-Conduct Utes
[I have decided to leave "butt-ending" in the public domain.]
If you wish to use one of these nicknames for your team they are for sale.
cross cheque
Make the playoffs, not war.
Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
I asked about native americans in the United States, dummy. So I will ask again what do you do personally to help stuggling native americans in the United States? Since you are such a savior to them on fan forums.
Just say it Don, you don't do an effing thing for native americans except come in here and berate fans for supporting a mascot. You run towards the front lines of political correctness and fly your liberal flag until it's time to put your money where your mouth is, you're a disgrace.
I asked about native americans in the United States, dummy. So I will ask again what do you do personally to help stuggling native americans in the United States? Since you are such a savior to them on fan forums.
Just say it Don, you don't do an effing thing for native americans except come in here and berate fans for supporting a mascot. You run towards the front lines of political correctness and fly your liberal flag until it's time to put your money where your mouth is, you're a disgrace.
PCM
New member
Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
It depends on whether you think it's more important and significant for a university to provide services and educational opporuntities for hundereds American Indians every year or to simply arrive at an arrangement that enables a university to continue using a particular tribe's name. You be the judge.
Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
UND does not have a mascot. You're a disgrace to the Fighting Sioux faithful for not knowing that.
UND does not have a mascot. You're a disgrace to the Fighting Sioux faithful for not knowing that.
uaafanblog
AKA - "Drop The Puck"
Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
That was your question. And I answered it you vile malignancy even though it had NOTHING to do with the topic at hand and was nothing more than a transparent attempt to indict me somehow for my views ... which you lack sufficient cognitive ability to even attempt to refute.
Are you really so stupid that you forget what you wrote a couple of days ago is still there. ProTip for you: Everything you post on the interwebs stays on the interwebs.
Hey brainbox .... Alaska is in the United States. And that isn't what you asked you dumbtwat. Here's what you asked in your second post in the thread ...
racisttwat said:
That was your question. And I answered it you vile malignancy even though it had NOTHING to do with the topic at hand and was nothing more than a transparent attempt to indict me somehow for my views ... which you lack sufficient cognitive ability to even attempt to refute.
Are you really so stupid that you forget what you wrote a couple of days ago is still there. ProTip for you: Everything you post on the interwebs stays on the interwebs.
Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
Mommy, why does the man try to impress people with his vocabulary? Isn't he just making the same, tired, elitist PC arguments everyone else makes? Does he ride his bike with "no hands?" Is this his term paper for Ward Churchill's class?
Old Pio-us aren't you starting to sound rather presumptuous yourself? "Sin of pride"? The intimations throughout your post sound like the timeless echoes of transcendent oracles of such pompous pioneers as Puritan minister Increase Mather, who after the complete annihilation of men, women and children of a surrendering Pequot Tribe, asked his congregation to thank God 'that on this day we have sent six hundred heathen souls to hell' (Chalk, Jonassohn, 1990). -Chalk, Frank; Jonassohn, Kurt. (1990). The History and Sociology of Genocide: Analyses and Case Studies. New Haven and London. Yale University Press.
Where is your substantive and valid evidence of the subjective nature of the definitive NCAA standard of "hostile and abusive"? Shame on you.
Noteworthy is the fact that the NCAA Executive Committee, under the esteemed leadership of then NCAA President Myles Brand, adopted the standard of "hostile and abusive" in 2005 in part from case law. Members indicated such language as being applied in civil cases in which decisions were reached on the basis of what "a reasonable person" would find to be hostile or abusive. The "hostile and abusive" standard also is stronger than simply "offensive," which courts have ruled is protected under the freedom of expression.
The ruling applied to as many as 19 NCAA institutions whose self-studies on the Native American mascot issue did not satisfy concerns that some people could consider the use of the mascot or imagery hostile or abusive. Individual institutions have always retained the right to appeal their inclusion on the list of schools whose mascots are considered hostile or abusive and the NCAA Executive Committee has served as the appellate body in each appeal case.
The action was hardly subjective and the standard was adopted after almost four years of substantive research and debate. The National Congress of American Indians has been opposed to mascots that portray Native Americans in a negative light since the 1960s. But the mascot/nickname/logo issue became ubiquitous when the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, an independent bipartisan agency of the federal executive branch, issued a statement in 2001 encouraging all non-Indian schools, colleges and universities to stop using Native American mascots, nicknames and imagery.
You mean like the recent ND legislature's ill fated legislation and willingness to engage in a media circus of covert bullying while leveraging political position and legal rhetoric against the NCAA? One wonders what type of spurious cognition, power mongering and vested intere$ts are active in North Dakota politics that would prompt them to assume such a pretentious posture at the expense of expunging the sentiments of true Native Americans like the Standing Rock tribe?
Who does this Standing Rock tribe think they are anyway? Meh...what the hell, it's only a tribe of 8000 people, and more than half of them live in abject poverty and are drowning in their own drunken vomit anyway. Maybe the next step should be offerings of trinkets and a string of beads? Or perhaps they should all be shot (honorably, of course), so we can all finally move on indulging in our next sport's entertainment fix.
If UND wants a chance to compete in post-season play after August, IMO it's expedient and pragmatic to continue to proceed with their task force plans to discontinue the nickname and logo as they have been for nearly a year. Suing the NCAA will only incur further divisiveness and polarize this issue beyond belief. UND needs to suck it up, cut their losses and move on. It's doubtful the NCAA will change their policy and the caveat is UND will pay a BIG price for making this a long standing and overdone fiasco. I reiterate, if UND discontinues use of the nickname, the collective efficacy of that act will reap multiple dividends to all parties involved.
And hopefully you'll soon be providing us with more than just myopic speculation and hot air regarding your analogue to identify any salient correlates with this particular issue, right?
In August 2005, the NCAA granted a waiver to the Florida State University which removed it from the NCAA’s list of colleges using imagery “hostile or abusive” towards Native Americans. According to Bernard Franklin, senior vice president of the NCAA,
The same stipulations apply to UND as significant research and documentation was provided by the NCAA designating Spirit Lake and Standing Rock Sioux tribes as "namesake tribes" regarding the nickname and logo. UND executive staff, the SBoHE and the tribes themselves acknowledged its validity and all concurred. Initially UND execs were not shaken by the designation of Spirit Lake and Standing Rock as namesake tribes because they assumed these tribes would offer compliance and sanctioned use of the nickname. However, UND has not established a unique relationship with the Standing Rock tribe anywhere close to the extent that FSU has with the Seminole tribe. So your point is irrelevant in this case.
"Hurt feelings by 'Professional Indians'"? Classy propensity for provincialism Old Pio-us and spoken like a true black powder frontiersman...bravo. Have a nice refractory phase.
Mommy, why does the man try to impress people with his vocabulary? Isn't he just making the same, tired, elitist PC arguments everyone else makes? Does he ride his bike with "no hands?" Is this his term paper for Ward Churchill's class?
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uaafanblog
AKA - "Drop The Puck"
Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
Why not attempt to offer counterpoints to his points? Is it because you have none or is it because you're halfway through your latest bottle of Johnny Walker?
Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
I can hardly wait for the day you and your second rate program are consigned to the dust bin of history.
I can hardly wait for the day you and your second rate program are consigned to the dust bin of history.
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Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
Pot meet kettle. For the most part you come on her and spew insults which completely undermine any point you are trying to make weather it is valid or not.
Pot meet kettle. For the most part you come on her and spew insults which completely undermine any point you are trying to make weather it is valid or not.
uaafanblog
AKA - "Drop The Puck"
Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
Incorrect, I made my salient points regarding the issue. I answered any and all legitimate questions and even a couple of illegitimate questions. Any insults I've spewed have been responses to outright racist posts or in response to insults directed at me. Again ... I AM NOT the issue. The issue is at hand is UND nickname and logo.
Incorrect, I made my salient points regarding the issue. I answered any and all legitimate questions and even a couple of illegitimate questions. Any insults I've spewed have been responses to outright racist posts or in response to insults directed at me. Again ... I AM NOT the issue. The issue is at hand is UND nickname and logo.
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Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.
So you are allowed to call someone out but I am not? Your defense of "I can call people names because they called me names" does not change the fact that it still makes you and your posts look childish.
If you want to get back on subject fine. The people of North Dakota, white and American Indian, will work this out with zero input for either of us which is how it should be. Some of the Sioux tribe members are in support some are against. They can voice their opinions just fine without you rushing to their aid.
So you are allowed to call someone out but I am not? Your defense of "I can call people names because they called me names" does not change the fact that it still makes you and your posts look childish.
If you want to get back on subject fine. The people of North Dakota, white and American Indian, will work this out with zero input for either of us which is how it should be. Some of the Sioux tribe members are in support some are against. They can voice their opinions just fine without you rushing to their aid.
HoosierBBall_GopherHockey
New member
Tipsy McStagger
Falling on fans at NHC since 2001
What part of his question was difficult for you? He asked if you do anything (besides spout off on message boards) to help fight the oppression of native americans.
You are the most arrogant person on these boards. You mischaracterize someone's argument, then follow it up by accusing them of not being able to comprehend your superior intellect. Beautiful.