Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

[davyd83]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

Not even close. The settlement for UND was whether to drop the logo or keep the logo and have it not to use it during the postseason (without any further ramifications). UND decided the former.

The government has determined that the University does not have freewill in this case...and dictated the outcome for the University. UND opposes this government intervention (GFH, 3/1/11)...and now the government is trying stifle dissent by removing UND's leadership.

Big government is doing what the NCAA could never do.

You make a very good point. By forcing UND to maintain the name and logo, the North Dakota legislatute IS denying the University its free speech. Very interesting argument.

 

[lugnut92]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

So the University of North Dakota, a state school run and funded by the North Dakota state government, is being told to do things by the North Dakota state government? This is clearly a travesty of epic proportions.

 

[davyd83]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

So the University of North Dakota, a state school run and funded by the North Dakota state government, is being told to do things by the North Dakota state government? This is clearly a travesty of epic proportions.

Another good point.

 

[MavHockey14]

Thank you for entirely living up to exactly what I expected. Rather than address any issue raised or argued in this thread; you choose to resort to a wholly inaccurate label of my political leanings.

As I mentioned earlier, you are incapable of participating in this discussion. My assumption that you're not an adult may be completely wrong however you've done nothing in this post to indicate otherwise. So ... go away and let adults exchange thoughts. Please "burd" ... come back.

These political labels that you've been programmed to trot out in circumstances like this (a discussion where you reasoning abilities have been exceeded) are pathetic. Your usage of such a thing speaks volumes about your personal character and nothing about mine.

I hate when people on the internet tell me how much I suck. It just throws me in the dumps

I respectfully disagree with your ideas and I just simply don't understand why the University of North Dakota is being held to a different standard in this situation than someone such as Florida State University.

Fighting SIOUX forever.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

So the University of North Dakota, a state school run and funded by the North Dakota state government, is being told to do things by the North Dakota state government? This is clearly a travesty of epic proportions.

UND is funded by the govt...which is the only reason why this is not an unconstitutional infringement of free speech.

US universities are not 'run' by state govts, which is why the country has the best university system in the world. It appears North Dakota's state govt has no problem overreaching on this where few other state governments would.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

If the NCAA rejects the "Fighting Sioux" moniker [as in "The name 'Sioux' already belongs to someone else"] then there's always the U.S.H.L.. I'm sure the U.S.H.L. would accept a cut of the profits to approve the half-accurate nickname, and U.N.D. would completely eliminate the loss of underclass players to major junior hockey.

 

[Jeo]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

I wish to address three points made by uaafanblog

On the first page you say that UND should do what the NCAA says and if not they can leave. If the NCAA eliminated the Alaska/Hawaii rule and every team stopped scheduling you, I think you would be saying that maybe the NCAA monopoly isn't such a good thing.

Second. What about UAA? The seawolf is taken from American Indian culture as well, do they have permission to use it? Is it not hostile and abusive?

Third. No Eithiopia did not invade Ireland and repress them for 500 years. The British did. It seems you have a fair amount of knowledge on the history of the United States, but before you dismiss other peoples repression as "not so bad" pick up a book and see for yourself.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

The seawolf is taken from American Indian culture as well... Is it not hostile and abusive?

Is this a trick question?

 

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

Let's not allow matters of simplistic entertainment to blind us in myopic shortsightedness when we can at least do something, however small in retrospect, to redeem and mend historical injustices perpetrated towards a virtually disenfranchised people group that is seeking at the very most a voice and little dignity. In the end I believe this will be a win-win situation.

Yes. Honoring the Sioux name in a respectful dignified manner gives them a voice, honor, and dignity.

Most persons with Native American blood live off the reservations and have assimilated into society and take pride that their ancestry is honored. What the NCAA has done actualy dishonors Native Americans and is not in the best interests of persons with Native American ancestry.

The NCAA's plan to have two local tribes decide the issue was arbitrary and capricious. The "Great Sioux Nation" includes all the Lakota, Dakota, and Nakota peoples, spread out over a large region of the plains and mountain States, and also should include all the mixed blood people that have assimilated into society, and that have ancestries that go back to these tribes. The NCAA plan to have the issue decided by two local tribes did not really take into account the true will of the "Great Sioux Nation".

 

[cross cheque]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

This thread escalated quickly.

 

[RinkPig]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

Yes. Honoring the Sioux name in a respectful dignified manner gives them a voice, honor, and dignity.

How does the fact that the Sue play in a building named after Ralph Engelstad honor the Sioux name in a respectful dignified manner?

 

[Happy]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

How does the fact that the Sue play in a building named after Ralph Engelstad honor the Sioux name in a respectful dignified manner?

someone must have got the Nazi and the Sioux mixed up is all I can think of.

 

[cross cheque]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

You folks here questioning and defending all this do realize that the probable majority of people in your state prefer that the nickname go away if for no other reason than to be done with the whole controversy?

I'm just curious where you got the data for that comment? Was it wrapped in plastic at the bottom of a box of cracker jacks?

Can you not learn to associate yourselves with some other symbology that isn't offensive to a group of people that had their lands stolen, culture nearly demolished and ancestors murdered by an invading force which disgustingly perverted their own religious beliefs to justify themselves?

How much of your personal income and time do you dedicate towards native american's psychological and economic reparations? You must have at least two Inuit families living with you in Anchorage, right? Supporting them until they get back on their feet?

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

This thread escalated quickly.

I just saw another poster killed with a trident... You folks need to remember that in these types of discussions there is to be no touching of the face or hair, and by all means, don't let facts or logic get in the way of a good discussion...

But seriously, the fact that this issue has gone on for so many years simply supports the name. They are fighting to keep the name. They are in fact the Fighting Sioux. Or maybe they could just add a small "THE" to the logo name and be the North Dakota Fighting THE Sioux.

Ryan J

 

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

How does the fact that the Sue play in a building named after Ralph Engelstad honor the Sioux name in a respectful dignified manner?

The construction was funded by Las Vegas Casino profits.

Imagine that, a major tribute to the Sioux, funded not by a local casino profits, but by an out of state casino that competes against the Indian casinos for profits.

All Vegas casinos should be more charitable and give to the Fighting Sioux.

 

[MavsFan]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

Are you seriously stupid enough to compare a short period of racism and repression that seemingly all immigrants go through when they voluntarily come to the U.S. to the RANK GENOCIDE that was consciously perpetrated against the peaceful people who inhabited this continent long before any European even imagined the place existed?

Come back to this thread when you are older than 14. Else you might get trod upon in ways which are inconceivable to someone like you (i.e... a child) who operating with less than a fully matured prefrontal cortex.

Yeah, personal attacks are extremely mature. You sure put me in my place. And if you believe that native Americans were somehow more "peaceful" than other humans, well, I don't know what to tell you. You think they were never involved in war before the white man came to North America?

 

[MavsFan]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

maybe we should've listened to Dirty..

I never thought I'd live to see those words.

 

[davyd83]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

You think they were never involved in war before the white man came to North America?

There was no war or violence then. There were no TV programs to incite it.

 

[Happy]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

The construction was funded by Las Vegas Casino profits.

Imagine that, a major tribute to the Sioux, funded not by a local casino profits, but by an out of state casino that competes against the Indian casinos for profits.

All Vegas casinos should be more charitable and give to the Fighting Sioux.

if it really did honor the Sioux, then they would gladly give much of their casino profits to UND. since they don't, we can infer that they do not feel honored.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: Fighting Sioux to fight on...For one more year at least.

I wish to address three points made by uaafanblog

Excellent ...

On the first page you say that UND should do what the NCAA says and if not they can leave. If the NCAA eliminated the Alaska/Hawaii rule and every team stopped scheduling you, I think you would be saying that maybe the NCAA monopoly isn't such a good thing.

Did I say the NCAA is a good thing? No.

Second. What about UAA? The seawolf is taken from American Indian culture as well, do they have permission to use it? Is it not hostile and abusive?

First; using a facet of a local indigenous culture versus calling themselves the Fighting Dena'ina is the difference. It is the adjective that is the primary problem here. An example: Anchorage's newest convention center is called The Dena'ina Civic and Convention Center .... not The Drunken Dena'ina Civic and Convention Center.

Adopting a symbol (and quite frankly .. the Seawolf is actually a fairly obscure myth in Dena'ina culture) from a culture versus uses a decapitated head as a symbol are completely different things.

The adjective "Fighting" is the STEREOTYPE. Please don't make me explain how stereotyping affects races of people. Again, the Sioux (Lakota, Dakota, Santee or any other extraction) were not a warlike people or even WARRIORS. Within any group there were certainly men who's job it was to protect and/or fight when necessary. But that was far less important to their culture than it is for .. um ... AMERICA who has been at war somewhere for easily half of it's existence as a nation.

Third. No Eithiopia did not invade Ireland and repress them for 500 years. The British did. It seems you have a fair amount of knowledge on the history of the United States, but before you dismiss other peoples repression as "not so bad" pick up a book and see for yourself.

I thought my Ethiopian invasion of Ireland remark was as obvious a piece of sarcasm as I've ever written on any public forum. I made it as exposition of one thing ... The Irish were not some existing indigenous tribe invaded, defeated and repressed by some foreign racial group.

How much of your personal income and time do you dedicate towards native american's psychological and economic reparations? You must have at least two Inuit families living with you in Anchorage, right? Supporting them until they get back on their feet?

And here we get a pretty good example of stereotyping. Can anyone else identify it? OK OK .. I'll just tell you. Believing that somehow native peoples of Alaska cannot be self-sufficient in modern culture and require the help of gracious white people ...

Alaskan aboriginal people were somewhat lucky in that the same sort of invasion, defeat and repression didn't occur on anywhere near the same level as it did in the west. Slightly more progressive attitudes ruled the day by the time we white people got up here in significant enough numbers. That said, they have been and continue to be subjected to isolated acts of racism and stereotyping.