Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

[hattrick16]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

To Daniels' credit he has created a pretty consistent and stable program. Far more consistent than LSSU or BGSU, both of which have a rich hockey history. And I'm very thankful we're not the guaranteed bottom feeder that is WMU (we'll see how Blashill does). But I do think some fresh blood every decade or so is a good thing. It will be nice to have someone with a different perspective (hopefully) in charge of FSU athletics.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

Very true. Anybody can do anything they have a desire and talent to do. Good point there. As far as talking to Kirinovic I would say that everything that needs to be said on the issue of money has already been said. He is moving on and I wish him well like a lot of other people. As far as the money issue that comes up over and over again I would say the horse is already dead. No sense in beating on the dead horse's grave.

I do not believe that money is the most significant factor in what determines success. I hate seeing people say that better money can get better athletes. It sends a bad message to the athletes in the program. To put it all on money takes away from the hard work of coaches and administrators running successful teams.

Ummm... Money invested in the program does have an impact when it comes to recuiting kids to come play at your school. If your school has small arena that really could use something more than a fresh coat of paint, a small, rinky-dink weightroom, and other things that just seem cheap, its more likely that the kid is going to want to listen more to the recuiters at another school that has a nicer arena, the bigger weight room, and other better admenties over the other school. I'll admit, recent records and history do factor in a little, but all things even with that, the kid is more likely to go to the school with the shinier stuff.

 

[SportsTalk51]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

Very true. Anybody can do anything they have a desire and talent to do. Good point there. As far as talking to Kirinovic I would say that everything that needs to be said on the issue of money has already been said. He is moving on and I wish him well like a lot of other people. As far as the money issue that comes up over and over again I would say the horse is already dead. No sense in beating on the dead horse's grave.

I do not believe that money is the most significant factor in what determines success. I hate seeing people say that better money can get better athletes. It sends a bad message to the athletes in the program. To put it all on money takes away from the hard work of coaches and administrators running successful teams.

Go ahead and rank the factors that play into success, but money and everything that money does would have to be near the top. An idiot with money is still an idiot, but a competent coach with money is better equiped to succeed than one without.

Resources matter, and they matter big time. Ask any coach at Ferris if they would like to be on par with even most of the GLIAC or CCHA, not even near the top, just somewhere in the middle or even above average. I'm sure no one would say no. Of the bigger programs at Ferris, when I say that I mean the ones that rely on more than a handful of players (like golf and tennis, which by the way, have professional programs and that doesn't hurt), the ones that are the most successful are the ones better financed in relation to their competitors (softball and volleyball). That's not taking anything away from those coaches because they are good coaches, but they also have more to work with than some of their Ferris collegues.

How often do you hear that so and so left such and such a school for a "better job"? What makes it a better job? They have more resources (money) and a better brand name to work with.

Money matters and it always will. Hard work, making good recruiting decisions and coaching matters just as much or more, respectively. If you're a good coach and a hard worker and you're going up against a good coach, a hard worker and a guy who has more resources to work with, you're behind that guy. There is no question about that.

 

[KnowTheDeal]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

Ummm... Money invested in the program does have an impact when it comes to recuiting kids to come play at your school. If your school has small arena that really could use something more than a fresh coat of paint, a small, rinky-dink weightroom, and other things that just seem cheap, its more likely that the kid is going to want to listen more to the recuiters at another school that has a nicer arena, the bigger weight room, and other better admenties over the other school. I'll admit, recent records and history do factor in a little, but all things even with that, the kid is more likely to go to the school with the shinier stuff.

I should have put that a little better. I was not saying money doesn't have an impact at all. I do think money makes a difference as far as facilities go. As far as hockey goes, the facility Ferris is not up to the standards of its opponents. I think most would agree with that (if not all). I don't think there is any question that it would be nice if Ferris had a better facility for hockey and a weight room. I would not hold my breath waiting on either one to happen any time soon. You are right in that facilities do make a big difference.

 

[KnowTheDeal]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

Go ahead and rank the factors that play into success, but money and everything that money does would have to be near the top. An idiot with money is still an idiot, but a competent coach with money is better equiped to succeed than one without.

Resources matter, and they matter big time. Ask any coach at Ferris if they would like to be on par with even most of the GLIAC or CCHA, not even near the top, just somewhere in the middle or even above average. I'm sure no one would say no. Of the bigger programs at Ferris, when I say that I mean the ones that rely on more than a handful of players (like golf and tennis, which by the way, have professional programs and that doesn't hurt), the ones that are the most successful are the ones better financed in relation to their competitors (softball and volleyball). That's not taking anything away from those coaches because they are good coaches, but they also have more to work with than some of their Ferris collegues.

How often do you hear that so and so left such and such a school for a "better job"? What makes it a better job? They have more resources (money) and a better brand name to work with.

Money matters and it always will. Hard work, making good recruiting decisions and coaching matters just as much or more, respectively. If you're a good coach and a hard worker and you're going up against a good coach, a hard worker and a guy who has more resources to work with, you're behind that guy. There is no question about that.

Generally when coaches leave for better opportunities there are a lot of factors that can play into it. I am not sure that is the best example. Coaches want a change of scenery, coaches feel like it's time for a new challenge, coaches want more money, coaches go through administration changes, coaches have personal issues that make a factor. It is lots of stuff that can make coaches change to a better job or better opportunity.

Coaches have to work hard and do the best they can with what they have before asking for more money. There are also many factors that go into money and that includes Title IX. I think hockey is a great example of a program that maximizes its resources and is well respected. Hockey is a symbol of what is right.

As far as funding in comparison to competitors I would say that is a different sort of argument. I have not seen any statistics to back up some of those statements. All I know is that it does no person running a program to spend so much time complaining about what they don't have. I would bet most professors at most schools think way too much is invested in athletics with the way the economy has been in Michigan. Go out and compete and make it happen. The resources are there and people have to take advantage of those resources.

 

[SportsTalk51]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

Generally when coaches leave for better opportunities there are a lot of factors that can play into it. I am not sure that is the best example. Coaches want a change of scenery, coaches feel like it's time for a new challenge, coaches want more money, coaches go through administration changes, coaches have personal issues that make a factor. It is lots of stuff that can make coaches change to a better job or better opportunity.

Coaches have to work hard and do the best they can with what they have before asking for more money. There are also many factors that go into money and that includes Title IX. I think hockey is a great example of a program that maximizes its resources and is well respected. Hockey is a symbol of what is right.

As far as funding in comparison to competitors I would say that is a different sort of argument. I have not seen any statistics to back up some of those statements. All I know is that it does no person running a program to spend so much time complaining about what they don't have. I would bet most professors at most schools think way too much is invested in athletics with the way the economy has been in Michigan. Go out and compete and make it happen. The resources are there and people have to take advantage of those resources.

I think you just summed it all up right there.

Title IX plays a role in all this. The women's sports at Ferris are better funded in comparison to their competitors than the men's. Statisical information supporting that fact has been published. I know you've seen it because you said so on MLive months ago. If you'd like to see it again, go to Kirinovic's office and ask him to show you. He's got a big binder with all of the information.

You said hockey is maximizing its resources. I agree. Daniels has been there 18 years and has lost more games than he's won. As you just said, he's getting about the most out of the program that one could expect, yet he's made the NCAA Tournament one time. One. In 18 years. (It should have been two this year, but that's a different argument.) FSU is a respected program, but still one that usually finishes somwhere between 5th and 9th in the CCHA.

Professors think athletics gets too much money already. Of course they do. Their job is to educate and they see that as the university's role. The athletic department's job, or one of them, is to win. Kirinovic is "crying" (as you put it) for more money for his coaches to work with. Can you really fault him for that? He's doing what any head of any department on campus would do. Trying to get more money for his department. The difference lies in what athletics does, they do on a very public stage and it can be defined by a win or a loss. If people like us are going to judge their performance, then don't we need to take all the information into account? If you're going to talk about maximizing resources, then don't you need to define what those resources are? If hockey is maximizing its resources, then who is to say the other programs aren't?

 

[KnowTheDeal]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

I think you just summed it all up right there.

Title IX plays a role in all this. The women's sports at Ferris are better funded in comparison to their competitors than the men's. Statisical information supporting that fact has been published. I know you've seen it because you said so on MLive months ago. If you'd like to see it again, go to Kirinovic's office and ask him to show you. He's got a big binder with all of the information.

You said hockey is maximizing its resources. I agree. Daniels has been there 18 years and has lost more games than he's won. As you just said, he's getting about the most out of the program that one could expect, yet he's made the NCAA Tournament one time. One. In 18 years. (It should have been two this year, but that's a different argument.) FSU is a respected program, but still one that usually finishes somwhere between 5th and 9th in the CCHA.

Professors think athletics gets too much money already. Of course they do. Their job is to educate and they see that as the university's role. The athletic department's job, or one of them, is to win. Kirinovic is "crying" (as you put it) for more money for his coaches to work with. Can you really fault him for that? He's doing what any head of any department on campus would do. Trying to get more money for his department. The difference lies in what athletics does, they do on a very public stage and it can be defined by a win or a loss. If people like us are going to judge their performance, then don't we need to take all the information into account? If you're going to talk about maximizing resources, then don't you need to define what those resources are? If hockey is maximizing its resources, then who is to say the other programs aren't?

First off, I did not say anything about Kirinovic crying for more money. I did not mention his name and I did not even mention Ferris. That is what you came up with based on a general statement I made about people and the media crying about funding. It was your choice to attach it strictly to Kirinovic. Of course no one can fault any person for wanting more resources but how to do that is the main point. How to do it is to roll up your sleeves and get to work. To me that is what it comes down to. Resources are in place and schools like Ferris are investing in sports teams when most people might think money could be spent in other more important areas that also will help bring in good athletes. Hopefully the new AD can come in and pick up from where Tom has left off. A lot of fans and alums are looking forward to who will be the next AD to build on what already has been built.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

I think you just summed it all up right there.

Title IX plays a role in all this. The women's sports at Ferris are better funded in comparison to their competitors than the men's. Statisical information supporting that fact has been published. I know you've seen it because you said so on MLive months ago. If you'd like to see it again, go to Kirinovic's office and ask him to show you. He's got a big binder with all of the information.

MLive?? I know KnowTheDeal has been posting on D2Football recently? But on MLive as well?? Ewwww.... Now I feel dirty.

 

[KnowTheDeal]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

MLive?? I know KnowTheDeal has been posting on D2Football recently? But on MLive as well?? Ewwww.... Now I feel dirty.

MLive's forums have been slowing down. I finally decided not all that long back to give it a try on USCHO and D2football.

 

[KnowTheDeal]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

I think you just summed it all up right there.

Title IX plays a role in all this. The women's sports at Ferris are better funded in comparison to their competitors than the men's. Statisical information supporting that fact has been published. I know you've seen it because you said so on MLive months ago. If you'd like to see it again, go to Kirinovic's office and ask him to show you. He's got a big binder with all of the information.

You said hockey is maximizing its resources. I agree. Daniels has been there 18 years and has lost more games than he's won. As you just said, he's getting about the most out of the program that one could expect, yet he's made the NCAA Tournament one time. One. In 18 years. (It should have been two this year, but that's a different argument.) FSU is a respected program, but still one that usually finishes somwhere between 5th and 9th in the CCHA.

Professors think athletics gets too much money already. Of course they do. Their job is to educate and they see that as the university's role. The athletic department's job, or one of them, is to win. Kirinovic is "crying" (as you put it) for more money for his coaches to work with. Can you really fault him for that? He's doing what any head of any department on campus would do. Trying to get more money for his department. The difference lies in what athletics does, they do on a very public stage and it can be defined by a win or a loss. If people like us are going to judge their performance, then don't we need to take all the information into account? If you're going to talk about maximizing resources, then don't you need to define what those resources are? If hockey is maximizing its resources, then who is to say the other programs aren't?

I've seen bits and pieces of info but I have not seen enough to draw a definite conclusion. Looking at incomplete information about what numbers mean is just as bad as looking at the wrong info. The bigger point is that it is going to be a new AD in place and this new AD has a big job ahead and Ferris is a great place for students.

 

[SportsTalk51]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

First off, I did not say anything about Kirinovic crying for more money. I did not mention his name and I did not even mention Ferris. That is what you came up with based on a general statement I made about people and the media crying about funding. It was your choice to attach it strictly to Kirinovic. Of course no one can fault any person for wanting more resources but how to do that is the main point. How to do it is to roll up your sleeves and get to work. To me that is what it comes down to. Resources are in place and schools like Ferris are investing in sports teams when most people might think money could be spent in other more important areas that also will help bring in good athletes. Hopefully the new AD can come in and pick up from where Tom has left off. A lot of fans and alums are looking forward to who will be the next AD to build on what already has been built.

"The media and everyone else" is what you said. Since Kirinovic isn't in the media, he would fall under everyone else. Being that you were responding to a post where Kirinovic is quoted talking about a lack of money, that conclusion was pretty reasonable.

By the way, Kirnovic was asked a question about why he chose to stand by Daniels and Pierce through the years even though some people felt they should be replaced (read this entire thread if you need an example), and that's how he answered it.

The information was put out there and it's available to you if you want it. What you do with it is up to you.

 

[KnowTheDeal]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

"The media and everyone else" is what you said. Since Kirinovic isn't in the media, he would fall under everyone else. Being that you were responding to a post where Kirinovic is quoted talking about a lack of money, that conclusion was pretty reasonable.

By the way, Kirnovic was asked a question about why he chose to stand by Daniels and Pierce through the years even though some people felt they should be replaced (read this entire thread if you need an example), and that's how he answered it.

The information was put out there and it's available to you if you want it. What you do with it is up to you.

I would disagree about whether it is reasonable to attach a general statement to one particular person. I spoke generally about the idea or the culture of complaining. People have to go out and make it happen. I look forward to the new AD coming in and taking off from where Kirinovic has stopped. I think there is a lot to build on and I imagine the new AD is going to inherit a good situation and work hard to make it a great situation. People are always calling for one coach or another to be let go whether it makes sense or not. The new AD is going to come in and evaluate the entire program and the individual programs. Based on that the decisions will be made. I think this is an exciting time in FSU sports and I can't wait to see where it goes from here.

Very good point about people doing what they want to do with information. It is there for all to see. I have to think that whoever comes in as the next AD will see that information and be excited about being at Ferris.

 

[SportsTalk51]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

I would disagree about whether it is reasonable to attach a general statement to one particular person. I spoke generally about the idea or the culture of complaining. People have to go out and make it happen. I look forward to the new AD coming in and taking off from where Kirinovic has stopped. I think there is a lot to build on and I imagine the new AD is going to inherit a good situation and work hard to make it a great situation. People are always calling for one coach or another to be let go whether it makes sense or not. The new AD is going to come in and evaluate the entire program and the individual programs. Based on that the decisions will be made. I think this is an exciting time in FSU sports and I can't wait to see where it goes from here.

Very good point about people doing what they want to do with information. It is there for all to see. I have to think that whoever comes in as the next AD will see that information and be excited about being at Ferris.

You did say "everybody else" and everybody else includes Kirinovic, but you're the only one who knows what you meant. If there's one person complaining in a story and you directly respond to that story by saying people need to quit complaining, yet you aren't talking about the person complaining, you should probably make that clear in your response. But that's water under the bridge.

I agree with you. The search for a new leader is an exciting time for Ferris athletics. I hope they make a good pick and he or she does a great job.

 

[hockeytown100]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

First of all, lots of good AD talk but I'm not going to get involved in the chatter. All I'm going to say on that is I'm excited to see what happens and hopefully make the right choice!

2nd, the schedule: Wow, pretty hard if you ask me. It should be fun, but the clusters could kill us. Michigan is going to be loaded next season, doesn't seem like we have much luck against Alaska, and MSU/OSU will be difficult as well. On top of that add Minnesota, BSU, and UAH...yikes! One game at a time I guess... BTW why isn't WMU in our cluster? I thought rivals always kept their clusters together.

3rd, I assume Redmond is returning for sure? I really like what we will have for defensmen/goaltending this upcoming season, but I feel like were going to have to do the wait and see approach for where the scoring is going to come from.

 

[SportsTalk51]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

First of all, lots of good AD talk but I'm not going to get involved in the chatter. All I'm going to say on that is I'm excited to see what happens and hopefully make the right choice!

2nd, the schedule: Wow, pretty hard if you ask me. It should be fun, but the clusters could kill us. Michigan is going to be loaded next season, doesn't seem like we have much luck against Alaska, and MSU/OSU will be difficult as well. On top of that add Minnesota, BSU, and UAH...yikes! One game at a time I guess... BTW why isn't WMU in our cluster? I thought rivals always kept their clusters together.

3rd, I assume Redmond is returning for sure? I really like what we will have for defensmen/goaltending this upcoming season, but I feel like were going to have to do the wait and see approach for where the scoring is going to come from.

Unless something really unforeseen happens, Redmond should be back. No signs of the Thrashers signing him as of right now.

 

[Hammer]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

2nd, the schedule: Wow, pretty hard if you ask me. It should be fun, but the clusters could kill us. Michigan is going to be loaded next season, doesn't seem like we have much luck against Alaska, and MSU/OSU will be difficult as well. On top of that add Minnesota, BSU, and UAH...yikes! One game at a time I guess... BTW why isn't WMU in our cluster? I thought rivals always kept their clusters together.

Having an 11 team league for the moment is bound to screw with some clusters.

Also, the CCHA is about get a lot tougher for the smaller schools. Even after Red's expected retirement following this season, their next coach is likely already behind their bench (Pearson), and they're likely not going anywhere for a while. I'm inclined to believe that Michigan State's collapse two years ago was a fluke, until I see evidence otherwise. Notre Dame is building a new arena and has Jeff Jackson behind the bench. Miami has newer facilities and a solid program. Ohio State has a new coach and the necessary facilities to make a move upwards. These schools have either the facilities, budgets, programs, or (mostly) a combination of the three to put their programs in really nice shape for a while. You can see that in the caliber of the recruits that they bring in, year in and year out. Quite frankly, that's something LSSU, WMU, BG and Ferris cannot say. There is where you see the difference from the financial side.

Of the smaller schools (and budgets), only NMU and Ferris have had any kind of success on the national level in the last decade. Let's be honest for a moment. LSSU and BG have not been relevant nationally in 15 years. WMU has exactly one tournament appearance in their history, and that was in 1996. Northern got there last year, and we just missed this year, and had a really nice season in '02-03. I don't expect this trend to change in the forseeable future.

I'm leaving Alaska out of the conversation intentionally, as they are in a different situation, mostly due to proximity.

 

[Dirty Dream No. 2]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

WMU has exactly one tournament appearance in their history, and that was in 1996

Uh, 1994?

 

[Dirty Dream No. 2]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

And I'm very thankful we're not the guaranteed bottom feeder that is WMU

How you know you've hit rock bottom: when fans of a sh*t school and sh*t program like Ferris calls you a "guaranteed bottom feeder."

 

[Hammer]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

Uh, 1994?

I stand corrected. For some reason I don't remember Craig Brown & Co. making the NCAA's that year. I do remember Michigan beating the living bejabbers out of everyone in the league that year.

How you know you've hit rock bottom: when fans of a sh*t school and sh*t program like Ferris calls you a "guaranteed bottom feeder."

Uhhh, your own record for the last half-decade says hi, and so have the standings for the most part.

 

[KnowTheDeal]

Re: Ferris State Hockey 2009-10 - 2 minutes for slashing

You did say "everybody else" and everybody else includes Kirinovic, but you're the only one who knows what you meant. If there's one person complaining in a story and you directly respond to that story by saying people need to quit complaining, yet you aren't talking about the person complaining, you should probably make that clear in your response. But that's water under the bridge.

I agree with you. The search for a new leader is an exciting time for Ferris athletics. I hope they make a good pick and he or she does a great job.

That is an opinion you are entitled to, but that does not make it so. I was speaking broadly about the culture of complaining, but if you want to take it and attach it to one individual then by all means feel free to do so. It covers everyone, but not one individual was covered.

Lets get someone in there who brings solutions to the table. That is what will be most important.