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Reproduce and stop worrying about offending the Muslims.
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
As the Bible says, "Live long and prosper."
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
More evidence that the entitlement state is undermining self-reliance (the question had been to what degree of correlation):
Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...7350230665818646.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
More evidence that the entitlement state is undermining self-reliance (the question had been to what degree of correlation):
Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...7350230665818646.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
The obvious answer is to do away with Food Stamps entirely and let people starve.
The obvious answer is to do away with Food Stamps entirely and let people starve.
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
But that is because every time Warren Buffet makes a dollar it comes out of the pocket of one of our lower income class citizens...as he steals their money they have to go on welfare. He then pays millions in taxes that are laundered through the government, with a small percentage actually making back to the person he stole it from in the beginning. When that person accumulates a whole dollar of government assistance, Warren steals it again so he can pay his secretary. This is called trickle up.
So, he isn't a job creator, he is a hand-out creator.
That is a far better model for the prosperity of our country since we are the same size and have the same demographics as Sweden. Soon we'll all be packaging up build-it-yourself bookcases so people in China can put them in their houses. those houses will be made of a new paper composite developed from US currency.
But that is because every time Warren Buffet makes a dollar it comes out of the pocket of one of our lower income class citizens...as he steals their money they have to go on welfare. He then pays millions in taxes that are laundered through the government, with a small percentage actually making back to the person he stole it from in the beginning. When that person accumulates a whole dollar of government assistance, Warren steals it again so he can pay his secretary. This is called trickle up.
So, he isn't a job creator, he is a hand-out creator.
That is a far better model for the prosperity of our country since we are the same size and have the same demographics as Sweden. Soon we'll all be packaging up build-it-yourself bookcases so people in China can put them in their houses. those houses will be made of a new paper composite developed from US currency.
leswp1
Well-known member
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
I somehow think it is a little more complex than that one stat. What other variables were in play (unemployment, income level, level of other available resources that might have filled the gap and probably a few others) and how do they compare to the numbers now.
Do you truly believe that the availability of food stamps makes people try to be poor enough to get them
I somehow think it is a little more complex than that one stat. What other variables were in play (unemployment, income level, level of other available resources that might have filled the gap and probably a few others) and how do they compare to the numbers now.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
So, 30 years of trickle down Reagonomics has butchered the middle class and created a much larger poor class on food stamps.
Thanks for finding the stats to prove that intuition correct.
So, 30 years of trickle down Reagonomics has butchered the middle class and created a much larger poor class on food stamps.
Thanks for finding the stats to prove that intuition correct.
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
Yeah, but that's not true of every rich guy. Why just look at how many jobs are created every year by the $14 billion subsidy we give to a company like JP Morgan. I shudder to think where a giant like JP Morgan would be without those annual subsidies... Certainly big job creators like that can offset the damage done by Warren Buffet.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
That was my goal. Little known fact is that I gave myself this brain tumor, ran up hundreds of thousands in medical bills and disabled myself so I'd have to stop "working" at my $40K/year job that was fun and interesting so that I could go on Social Security. I'm going to get rich on my $12K/year subsidy much faster than I would have if I had kept working. Of course, the tumor grew much faster than I expected and nearly killed me, but in the end I only suffered minor nerve damage, lost hearing in one ear and still have part of the tumor in my head like a ticking time bomb so hey, mission accomplished!
Do you truly believe that the availability of food stamps makes people try to be poor enough to get them
That was my goal. Little known fact is that I gave myself this brain tumor, ran up hundreds of thousands in medical bills and disabled myself so I'd have to stop "working" at my $40K/year job that was fun and interesting so that I could go on Social Security. I'm going to get rich on my $12K/year subsidy much faster than I would have if I had kept working. Of course, the tumor grew much faster than I expected and nearly killed me, but in the end I only suffered minor nerve damage, lost hearing in one ear and still have part of the tumor in my head like a ticking time bomb so hey, mission accomplished!
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
Good to know that Reaganomics is working as designed.
Good to know that Reaganomics is working as designed.
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
Not quite as you phrase it, not exactly....however, the federal government is paying bonuses to states as an incentive to get them to sign up more food stamp recipients, which is totally backwards!
Because the program is only based on reported taxable income, someone with a few million dollars in municipal bonds qualifies, which is totally backward. College students can qualify even if they have extremely rich parents.
A system that provides "support of last resort only for those most in need" should not be going to 1 in 7 people, even if that is "only" one statistic.
Here is a story told to me that got my attention.
At one time, we had 19 people working to support 1 additional person in need.
Shift one person over: now we have 9 people working to support 1 additional person in need (less than 50% than before).
Shift one person over: now we have 4 people working to support 1 additional person in need (less than 25% from where we started).
Obviously this is unsustainable, the "death by a thousand cuts" that will bleed all of us to death if we don't find a way out.....the parasite destroying the host such that none survive.
Do you truly believe that the availability of food stamps makes people try to be poor enough to get them
Not quite as you phrase it, not exactly....however, the federal government is paying bonuses to states as an incentive to get them to sign up more food stamp recipients, which is totally backwards!
Because the program is only based on reported taxable income, someone with a few million dollars in municipal bonds qualifies, which is totally backward. College students can qualify even if they have extremely rich parents.A system that provides "support of last resort only for those most in need" should not be going to 1 in 7 people, even if that is "only" one statistic.
Here is a story told to me that got my attention.
At one time, we had 19 people working to support 1 additional person in need.
Shift one person over: now we have 9 people working to support 1 additional person in need (less than 50% than before).
Shift one person over: now we have 4 people working to support 1 additional person in need (less than 25% from where we started).
Obviously this is unsustainable, the "death by a thousand cuts" that will bleed all of us to death if we don't find a way out.....the parasite destroying the host such that none survive.
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
To the extent that there is economic growth, your reasoning is specious and fallacious: although I do grant you that it seems unfair to many that, if there is growth, its benefits may accrue disproportionately.
To the extent that there is economic growth, your reasoning is specious and fallacious: although I do grant you that it seems unfair to many that, if there is growth, its benefits may accrue disproportionately.
leswp1
Well-known member
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
The economy in certain parts of the country is horrible. Their need ratio is probably much worse than in the parts where things aren't as bad. Do the increased numbers correlate witht he recent economic trends? my guess is yes.
Does anyone know the percentage of households that use food stamps that have children. I would venture to guess it is pretty high. You are right. It is unsustainable. On the other hand who would you like to starve or be chronically hungry/malnourished? Or are you ascerting that the need is not real and the majority of these people are actually gaming the system?
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is irritating. Why not look at ways to change things to exclude the gamers vs just saying the numbers are bad therefore we are making everyone rely on the state?
If we make the assumption that the people applying are qualifying for the program then they are getting benefits because they are in need. Keeping them invisible by not having them use the program does not make their need less.Not quite as you phrase it, not exactly....however, the federal government is paying bonuses to states as an incentive to get them to sign up more food stamp recipients, which is totally backwards!
A system that provides "support of last resort only for those most in need" should not be going to 1 in 7 people, even if that is "only" one statistic.
Here is a story told to me that got my attention.
At one time, we had 19 people working to support 1 additional person in need.
Shift one person over: now we have 9 people working to support 1 additional person in need (less than 50% than before).
Shift one person over: now we have 4 people working to support 1 additional person in need (less than 25% from where we started).
Obviously this is unsustainable, the "death by a thousand cuts" that will bleed all of us to death if we don't find a way out.....the parasite destroying the host such that none survive.
The economy in certain parts of the country is horrible. Their need ratio is probably much worse than in the parts where things aren't as bad. Do the increased numbers correlate witht he recent economic trends? my guess is yes.
Does anyone know the percentage of households that use food stamps that have children. I would venture to guess it is pretty high. You are right. It is unsustainable. On the other hand who would you like to starve or be chronically hungry/malnourished? Or are you ascerting that the need is not real and the majority of these people are actually gaming the system?
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is irritating. Why not look at ways to change things to exclude the gamers vs just saying the numbers are bad therefore we are making everyone rely on the state?
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
I believe JP Morgan Chase currently employs over 260,000 people and in the go-go year of 2009 paid over $27 billion in total compensation. I can't say how much lower those numbers would be if the relationship between JP and the government were different but they'd be lower.
Now, not all of those 260k people work in the US and we can't assume the definition of benefits so they aren't paying US taxes on the full $27 billion...but could we agree the employees pay 10% of that amount in federal taxes and at least 150k of them are in the US?
And could we agree that of the % that isn't paid in US taxes by US employees, some of it gets spent on goods and services in the US?
Now I know I'm getting dangerously close to the definition of "trickle down"...but I just cant bring myself to think that they keep 100% of what they don't pay in federal taxes in a coffee can in the back yard. The savings rates in this country are so high, I know I'm spitting into the wind on this one.
So, maybe some of it gets paid in local taxes? Can't really avoid those. Maybe some goes to pay for clothes, food, car repair, mortgages, plumbers, cell phones and the like? Possible?
Now, I don't want to get all crazy here, but could we assume there are sales taxes on some of those transactions and the companies receiving those payments employ people also? Really going too far to say those employees also spend some of their post-tax income or do they put it in coffee cans too?
Is it also possible that to have 150k people working in the US they need supplies, office furniture, computers, buildings, lunch, new carpeting once in a while and some companies, possibly even US companies, paying a whole different set of wages and taxes might benefit from having the 150k people working in the US instead of at China Construction Bank?
We know from looking at the rust belt or any town with a significant plant closing that everything I just described is a myth. And we further know that when 9/11 impacted travel in this country, it had no ripple effect on the economy.
So we know that a dollar held by anybody except uncle sam is a dead end for that dollar. This is made easier to understand when we call all economic impact driven by anything other than the government "trickle down" and or refer to Ronald Reagan. (extra points for using a Gipper reference)
Because, in the end, there are only two possiblities, tax people and redistribute it through the government or they keep it all in coffee cans and none of it ever sees the light of day or anybody else's wallet. simple math.
I believe JP Morgan Chase currently employs over 260,000 people and in the go-go year of 2009 paid over $27 billion in total compensation. I can't say how much lower those numbers would be if the relationship between JP and the government were different but they'd be lower.
Now, not all of those 260k people work in the US and we can't assume the definition of benefits so they aren't paying US taxes on the full $27 billion...but could we agree the employees pay 10% of that amount in federal taxes and at least 150k of them are in the US?
And could we agree that of the % that isn't paid in US taxes by US employees, some of it gets spent on goods and services in the US?
Now I know I'm getting dangerously close to the definition of "trickle down"...but I just cant bring myself to think that they keep 100% of what they don't pay in federal taxes in a coffee can in the back yard. The savings rates in this country are so high, I know I'm spitting into the wind on this one.
So, maybe some of it gets paid in local taxes? Can't really avoid those. Maybe some goes to pay for clothes, food, car repair, mortgages, plumbers, cell phones and the like? Possible?
Now, I don't want to get all crazy here, but could we assume there are sales taxes on some of those transactions and the companies receiving those payments employ people also? Really going too far to say those employees also spend some of their post-tax income or do they put it in coffee cans too?
Is it also possible that to have 150k people working in the US they need supplies, office furniture, computers, buildings, lunch, new carpeting once in a while and some companies, possibly even US companies, paying a whole different set of wages and taxes might benefit from having the 150k people working in the US instead of at China Construction Bank?
We know from looking at the rust belt or any town with a significant plant closing that everything I just described is a myth. And we further know that when 9/11 impacted travel in this country, it had no ripple effect on the economy.
So we know that a dollar held by anybody except uncle sam is a dead end for that dollar. This is made easier to understand when we call all economic impact driven by anything other than the government "trickle down" and or refer to Ronald Reagan. (extra points for using a Gipper reference)
Because, in the end, there are only two possiblities, tax people and redistribute it through the government or they keep it all in coffee cans and none of it ever sees the light of day or anybody else's wallet. simple math.
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