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Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
C'mon now, Economics 101: everyone's wants exceed their resources. "In need" has become so watered down today, everyone "needs" cable TV and everyone "needs" a car.
People receiving government assistance are buying pre-packaged, already prepared meals to heat up in their microwaves! When I was "in need" I joined a food cooperative in which we purchased everything in bulk, baked our own bread, shared communal meals, etc etc etc.
I'm all for helping people who most need help; it's just that we have moved the fulcrum way way way too far, in two ways: people who'd "like to have" some help have migrated into the "need" column where they don't "really" belong, and more importantly to me, people who once needed temporary assistance to get back into self-reliance now find they can remain on assistance indefinitely.
You are a parent, no?? Do you really want your children to remain stuck in adolescence for the entirety of their lives? Or do you want them to grow up into self-reliant, capable, competent, productive adults capable of taking responsibility for their own life choices?
If the latter, then why would you want anything less for anyone else?
C'mon now, Economics 101: everyone's wants exceed their resources. "In need" has become so watered down today, everyone "needs" cable TV and everyone "needs" a car.
People receiving government assistance are buying pre-packaged, already prepared meals to heat up in their microwaves! When I was "in need" I joined a food cooperative in which we purchased everything in bulk, baked our own bread, shared communal meals, etc etc etc.
I'm all for helping people who most need help; it's just that we have moved the fulcrum way way way too far, in two ways: people who'd "like to have" some help have migrated into the "need" column where they don't "really" belong, and more importantly to me, people who once needed temporary assistance to get back into self-reliance now find they can remain on assistance indefinitely.
You are a parent, no?? Do you really want your children to remain stuck in adolescence for the entirety of their lives? Or do you want them to grow up into self-reliant, capable, competent, productive adults capable of taking responsibility for their own life choices?
If the latter, then why would you want anything less for anyone else?
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
They won't. The nations are being gathered against Israel (Zechariah 14).
They won't. The nations are being gathered against Israel (Zechariah 14).
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
T Paw has quietly been rising in VP material chatter. He was way down the list...and now he's passed Rubio pretty handely as #2 odds for intrade behind Portman. I wonder if this is heart pick. Pawlenty reminds me of Romney in many ways and completes him in a couple others (touting his blue collar upbringing and laid back Christian beliefs). But in the end, he has a core conservative ideology and lacks much experience in either Washington nor foriegn affairs.
I think its unlikely he moves MN 7 pts or WI or IA 3 pts...which would probably be whats necessary to deliver any of those states.
T Paw has quietly been rising in VP material chatter. He was way down the list...and now he's passed Rubio pretty handely as #2 odds for intrade behind Portman. I wonder if this is heart pick. Pawlenty reminds me of Romney in many ways and completes him in a couple others (touting his blue collar upbringing and laid back Christian beliefs). But in the end, he has a core conservative ideology and lacks much experience in either Washington nor foriegn affairs.
I think its unlikely he moves MN 7 pts or WI or IA 3 pts...which would probably be whats necessary to deliver any of those states.
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
And none of that happens when the money is given to people in the form of Food Stamps or Welfare...they put it in a coffee can...
And none of that happens when the money is given to people in the form of Food Stamps or Welfare...they put it in a coffee can...
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.
For everything else, there's MarxCard. I kid you not.
Who said Germans don't have a sense of humor?
From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.
For everything else, there's MarxCard. I kid you not.
Who said Germans don't have a sense of humor?
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
So I was watching Duck Tales last week and I noticed that not only is it a story about the wacky adventures of Donald's Uncle and his nephews but is actually a statement about job creators in this country. Uncle Scrooge never needed handouts from the government (nor did his rich mortal enemy Dromgold) he just picked himself up by his bootstraps (with a little help from his lucky dime of course) and came to America and made enough money to swim in it! That should be our monetary policy let people get so blindingly rich they can go on madcap misadventures with their relatives and their only worry is that people will steal their money!! (those ****ed Beagle Boys!) If only The Beagle's and Magica Despell would stop expecting handouts and would work hard they could be just like Scrooge!!
Then I went even deeper, you ever notice you never meet Donald's mother who is supposed to be Scrooge's sister? And you never meet Huey, Duey and Luey's parents who are Donald's siblings? Obviously Disney was making a statement about the middle class and their inability to work as a Nuclear Family and they can only survive by the grace of their rich relatives...which is why Scrooge so graciously takes them in!
Next up...I plan to watch Dumbo and see what hidden messages (besides of course the racism...cause I be done seen 'bout ev'rything when I see an elephant fly!) I can find in there! Disney really knew his stuff!
So I was watching Duck Tales last week and I noticed that not only is it a story about the wacky adventures of Donald's Uncle and his nephews but is actually a statement about job creators in this country. Uncle Scrooge never needed handouts from the government (nor did his rich mortal enemy Dromgold) he just picked himself up by his bootstraps (with a little help from his lucky dime of course) and came to America and made enough money to swim in it! That should be our monetary policy let people get so blindingly rich they can go on madcap misadventures with their relatives and their only worry is that people will steal their money!! (those ****ed Beagle Boys!) If only The Beagle's and Magica Despell would stop expecting handouts and would work hard they could be just like Scrooge!!
Then I went even deeper, you ever notice you never meet Donald's mother who is supposed to be Scrooge's sister? And you never meet Huey, Duey and Luey's parents who are Donald's siblings? Obviously Disney was making a statement about the middle class and their inability to work as a Nuclear Family and they can only survive by the grace of their rich relatives...which is why Scrooge so graciously takes them in!
Next up...I plan to watch Dumbo and see what hidden messages (besides of course the racism...cause I be done seen 'bout ev'rything when I see an elephant fly!) I can find in there! Disney really knew his stuff!
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
Those are the cheapest foods. You want to buy different food and it's a lot more expensive. You can get a hamburger at McDonald's for 79 cents (and they'll serve it to you in less than a minute!) whereas if you want a salad it'll cost three or four times as much. If you have a limited budget, which are you going to buy?
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XIeB2Q2xmZQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/a-snfaG2JH8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
.So I was watching Duck Tales last week and I noticed that not only is it a story about the wacky adventures of Donald's Uncle and his nephews but is actually a statement about job creators in this country. Uncle Scrooge never needed handouts from the government (nor did his rich mortal enemy Dromgold) he just picked himself up by his bootstraps (with a little help from his lucky dime of course) and came to America and made enough money to swim in it! That should be our monetary policy let people get so blindingly rich they can go on madcap misadventures with their relatives and their only worry is that people will steal their money!! (those ****ed Beagle Boys!) If only The Beagle's and Magica Despell would stop expecting handouts and would work hard they could be just like Scrooge!!
Then I went even deeper, you ever notice you never meet Donald's mother who is supposed to be Scrooge's sister? And you never meet Huey, Duey and Luey's parents who are Donald's siblings? Obviously Disney was making a statement about the middle class and their inability to work as a Nuclear Family and they can only survive by the grace of their rich relatives...which is why Scrooge so graciously takes them in!
Next up...I plan to watch Dumbo and see what hidden messages (besides of course the racism...cause I be done seen 'bout ev'rything when I see an elephant fly!) I can find in there! Disney really knew his stuff!
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XIeB2Q2xmZQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/a-snfaG2JH8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
That's a very apt description of a family, or a tribe, or a community, and a very ineffective way to run a government. It's what I've been trying to frame all along, the idea that what is healthy for society to embrace voluntarily is not at all the way forcibly to run a government.
Most people don't realize that when Marx exhorted the workers of the world to "arise and cast off their chains," he was describing chains imposed by a government that represented the well-connected at the expense of the general public. Marx was suspicious of any government power; his "ideal" situation involved the "withering away of the state." Were he active in US politics today, my bet is that he'd be an ardent TEA party supporter, as the messages resonate: the powerful and well-connected are using the tools of government to oppress the rest of us.
That's a very apt description of a family, or a tribe, or a community, and a very ineffective way to run a government. It's what I've been trying to frame all along, the idea that what is healthy for society to embrace voluntarily is not at all the way forcibly to run a government.
Most people don't realize that when Marx exhorted the workers of the world to "arise and cast off their chains," he was describing chains imposed by a government that represented the well-connected at the expense of the general public. Marx was suspicious of any government power; his "ideal" situation involved the "withering away of the state." Were he active in US politics today, my bet is that he'd be an ardent TEA party supporter, as the messages resonate: the powerful and well-connected are using the tools of government to oppress the rest of us.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
You just HAD to get that song stuck in my head, didn't you... -_-
Well, I'm not letting it go to waste.
Life is like a hurricane here in Duckburgh,
Race cars, lasers, aeroplanes, it's a duck blur...
Might solve a mystery...
Or re-write history...
DuckTales! WOOHOO!
Ev'ry day they're out there making...
DuckTales! WOOHOO!
Tales of daring do bad and good...
Luck tales! WOOHOO!
You just HAD to get that song stuck in my head, didn't you... -_-
Well, I'm not letting it go to waste.
Life is like a hurricane here in Duckburgh,
Race cars, lasers, aeroplanes, it's a duck blur...
Might solve a mystery...
Or re-write history...
DuckTales! WOOHOO!
Ev'ry day they're out there making...
DuckTales! WOOHOO!
Tales of daring do bad and good...
Luck tales! WOOHOO!
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/frGLMtGsotc?version=3&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/frGLMtGsotc?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>
I might own it on DVD
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I might own it on DVD
brookyone
Deport Right Wing Nuts
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
I'd probably take that bet.
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
I don't disagree. I was just looking for an excuse to post the Marx Mastercard.
As in the linked story, I couldn't believe the possibilities for a tagline:
I don't always allow banks to appropriate the surplus value of my labor by charging exorbitant interest . . . but when I do, I choose Sparkasse ChemnitzBank Mastercard.
But that might be too geeky even for uscho
I don't disagree. I was just looking for an excuse to post the Marx Mastercard.
As in the linked story, I couldn't believe the possibilities for a tagline:
I don't always allow banks to appropriate the surplus value of my labor by charging exorbitant interest . . . but when I do, I choose Sparkasse ChemnitzBank Mastercard.
But that might be too geeky even for uscho
leswp1
New member
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
Good for you that you joined a food co-op. They don't have those where I am. They don't have anything resembling it. They have a farmer's market but contrary to what you would believe it is much more expensive than going to the supermarket, even at the end of the day. The cities are the same. They don't call it the urban desert for nothing. Many peopledo not even have large places to buy food. The logistics to get to those places are a nightmare esp if you are working and have kids. Availability is lacking not because of desire or lack of effort for some. Should something be done about this sure. But in the mean time are those people lazy if they have limited choice?
Do I want my kid to be self sufficient- yes. Unfortunately I have seen enough in my world to also know that he can be self sufficient, have a wonderful attitude, be incredibly hard working and still land in a situation that he may need assistance. It is a fantasy to say that if you are doing all the right things then you will be OK. It seems to me the only people who believe tha are those who are blessed not to have been in those situations and more blessed if they don't know anyone who has.
Yes there are people who should not get assistance but do. It burns my but but they are not the majority of my experience. I know more whoare not adolescents for life. They have done all the right things, do not have great cars, nice TVs and were completely self reliant before they lost their job or got ill. These are people who are savy, have great contacts and still needed to use all of their savings and now rely on various social nets including food stamps.
This kind of insular thinking makes me nuts. Maybe you are lucky and haven't been exposed to that many people who are in trouble. That makes it easy to dismiss need and blame them or others for their need. Not everyone is willfully in need. I believe it is better to give the fishing rod than a fish but I also know that in some cases while you are teaching the person to fish you need to support them.
Good for you that you joined a food co-op. They don't have those where I am. They don't have anything resembling it. They have a farmer's market but contrary to what you would believe it is much more expensive than going to the supermarket, even at the end of the day. The cities are the same. They don't call it the urban desert for nothing. Many peopledo not even have large places to buy food. The logistics to get to those places are a nightmare esp if you are working and have kids. Availability is lacking not because of desire or lack of effort for some. Should something be done about this sure. But in the mean time are those people lazy if they have limited choice?
Do I want my kid to be self sufficient- yes. Unfortunately I have seen enough in my world to also know that he can be self sufficient, have a wonderful attitude, be incredibly hard working and still land in a situation that he may need assistance. It is a fantasy to say that if you are doing all the right things then you will be OK. It seems to me the only people who believe tha are those who are blessed not to have been in those situations and more blessed if they don't know anyone who has.
Yes there are people who should not get assistance but do. It burns my but but they are not the majority of my experience. I know more whoare not adolescents for life. They have done all the right things, do not have great cars, nice TVs and were completely self reliant before they lost their job or got ill. These are people who are savy, have great contacts and still needed to use all of their savings and now rely on various social nets including food stamps.
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
I guess you forgot about that part at the beginning where I described one of the several times we were struggling and in desperate need and benefited greatly from the assistance of others??
We seem to be totally talking past each other. You are saying "there are needy people in this world" while I am saying, "what is a healthy and effective way for society to help needy people without a government program being established that inevitably turns temporary need into permanent dependence and which turns voluntary generosity into resented forcible confiscation?"
There's plenty of room for both our points of view to be complementary.
I guess you forgot about that part at the beginning where I described one of the several times we were struggling and in desperate need and benefited greatly from the assistance of others??
We seem to be totally talking past each other. You are saying "there are needy people in this world" while I am saying, "what is a healthy and effective way for society to help needy people without a government program being established that inevitably turns temporary need into permanent dependence and which turns voluntary generosity into resented forcible confiscation?"
There's plenty of room for both our points of view to be complementary.
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
So...the Tea Party people are Marxists? Like Obama?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/G2y8Sx4B2Sk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
So...the Tea Party people are Marxists? Like Obama?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/G2y8Sx4B2Sk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
Occupy was closer to Marxists than TEA, for crying out loud.
Occupy was closer to Marxists than TEA, for crying out loud.
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