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Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

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Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

FlagDUDE08 said:
Are you American or retarded?

Insurance Acceptance clause.
Click to expand...

I understand your lack of female companionship + fidelity to a dying ideology are driving you insane, but please try to keep up with the conversation. If we are to believe knuckledragger logic, most employers in Mass should have dumped their staff onto the state plan by now, and millions of citizens have decided to pay a fine instead of getting insurance. None of this relates to whether or not insurers have to accept patients. So I'll ask again, why aren't Mass employers pawning off their workers onto the state, and why aren't the residents just paying the tax instead of getting coverage?
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

FlagDUDE08 said:
Are you American or retarded?

Insurance Acceptance clause.
Click to expand...
It's been my experience that one is not necessarily exclusive of the other.

I don't know what the law in MA looks like, so there's no commenting upon it. If it has the same requirements of excluding existing conditions, then the M*******s aren't as intelligent as they like to make themselves out to be.


As for someone's earlier contention about employers not dropping insurance coverage when this hits - mine has already been dialed back due to what HR said were two reasons - the "normal" increase in premiums of 5%, and the even greater increase in premiums because of the PPACA at 6% for a total of 11% from 2011 to 2012. I now have inferior insurance in large part thanks to the Dems rushing through a bill they refused to understand before voting upon it.

Caterpillar, John Deere and four other large companies (I forget who) were threatened by the White House with lawsuits stating that they would have to drop their employees' coverage once the law takes effect because of the coverage requirements in said law increasing costs too much. A couple of them even testified before Congress to state as much. These are self-insured companies operating in areas where they are pretty much THE employer in the area. They're not going to lose their talent to the competition.
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Rover said:
I understand your lack of female companionship + fidelity to a dying ideology are driving you insane, but please try to keep up with the conversation. If we are to believe knuckledragger logic, most employers in Mass should have dumped their staff onto the state plan by now, and millions of citizens have decided to pay a fine instead of getting insurance. None of this relates to whether or not insurers have to accept patients. So I'll ask again, why aren't Mass employers pawning off their workers onto the state, and why aren't the residents just paying the tax instead of getting coverage?
Click to expand...

I have given you what I believe is the answer several times. You don't wish to read it. Therefore, you are not adding to the debate.

The ignore list says hi.
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

St. Clown said:
It's been my experience that one is not necessarily exclusive of the other.

I don't know what the law in MA looks like, so there's no commenting upon it. If it has the same requirements of excluding existing conditions, then the M*******s aren't as intelligent as they like to make themselves out to be.


As for someone's earlier contention about employers not dropping insurance coverage when this hits - mine has already been dialed back due to what HR said were two reasons - the "normal" increase in premiums of 5%, and the even greater increase in premiums because of the PPACA at 6% for a total of 11% from 2011 to 2012. I now have inferior insurance in large part thanks to the Dems rushing through a bill they refused to understand before voting upon it.

Caterpillar, John Deere and four other large companies (I forget who) were threatened by the White House with lawsuits stating that they would have to drop their employees' coverage once the law takes effect because of the coverage requirements in said law increasing costs too much. A couple of them even testified before Congress to state as much. These are self-insured companies operating in areas where they are pretty much THE employer in the area. They're not going to lose their talent to the competition.
Click to expand...
Don't forget that some colleges will also drop their student policies due to the increased coverage requirements of the ACA which will lead to higher premiums. This will be offset since junior and missy are now covered until 26 on their parents' policy.
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

St. Clown said:
As for someone's earlier contention about employers not dropping insurance coverage when this hits - mine has already been dialed back due to what HR said were two reasons - the "normal" increase in premiums of 5%, and the even greater increase in premiums because of the PPACA at 6% for a total of 11% from 2011 to 2012. I now have inferior insurance in large part thanks to the Dems rushing through a bill they refused to understand before voting upon it.

Caterpillar, John Deere and four other large companies (I forget who) were threatened by the White House with lawsuits stating that they would have to drop their employees' coverage once the law takes effect because of the coverage requirements in said law increasing costs too much. A couple of them even testified before Congress to state as much. These are self-insured companies operating in areas where they are pretty much THE employer in the area. They're not going to lose their talent to the competition.
Click to expand...

Sounds like your employer is screwing you, which is the exact reason why you need to protections of Obamacare! Anybody telling you they needed to double your insurance premiums in 2011 for something occurring in 2014 is a crook. Good thing for you this passed and somebody's looking out for you.

Regarding this companies allegedly dropping their insurance, Rush Limbaugh was also supposed to move to Cost Rica is this got upheld. Any word on whether the moving vans are boxing up his supply of pills to ship overseas?

FlagDUDE08 said:
The ignore list says hi.
Click to expand...

A typical sackless response but you do realize this won't stop me from making fun of you for everyone else's amusement, right? :D
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

So sue me...its a slow news day. The Murdoch Tweet trail:

Murdoch: When is Romney going to look like a challenger? Seems to play everything safe, make no news except burn off Hispanics.

Murdoch: Easy for Romney to spell out restoration of the American dream and bash incompetent administration. But not a word!

Murdoch: Met Romney last week. Tough O Chicago pros will be hard to beat unless he drops old friends from team and hires some real pros. Doubtful

Question: How much money have you donated to an unworthy candidate? Murdoch: None!

Murdoch: US election is referendum on Obama, all else pretty minor.
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Rover said:
Sounds like your employer is screwing you, which is the exact reason why you need to protections of Obamacare! Anybody telling you they needed to double your insurance premiums in 2011 for something occurring in 2014 is a crook. Good thing for you this passed and somebody's looking out for you.
Click to expand...
What flavor is the Kool-Aid you're drinking?
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

St. Clown said:
What flavor is the Kool-Aid you're drinking?
Click to expand...

Check this out:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/...g-o-p-on-health-care-tax/?partner=rss&emc=rss

So Riddle Me This, Knucks',

You're all bent out of shape over this being a tax, and believe this will be used to run Obama out of office. Okay so far, but....

Your own candidate, Mittens Romney is saying that no, its not a tax its a mandate! Most likely because he passed the same thing while governor.

SO, you have a choice it seems. Vote for a guy who raised taxes (Romney) OR buy into Romney's argument that the no insurance penalty isn't a tax in which case neither is Obama's.

Talk to me people, which one is it?
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

I'll take door #3, vote third party yet again.
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Handyman said:
Considering Ike left General Marshall (one of the great men of the 20th Century) twisting in the wind and supported McCarthy when he attacked Marshall for being incompetent I would say Ike's opinion on anything post WWII is pretty much worthless.
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Unlike that "profile in courage" JFK, who somehow wasn't feeling well enough to particpate in the McCarthy censure vote in the Senate. This couldn't have resulted from any pressure by his old man, who had put Bobby on McCarthy's committee as assistant council. Could it? Eleanor Roosevelt bored Jack a new one after that particular display of "courage". Joe didn't want his son to vote for censure against an anti-communist Catholic, and JFK obliged. Paraphrasing an old Chuck Percy line: "When the head nodded in Hyannisport, the tail wagged in Washington."
 
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Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

5mn_Major said:
Of course, I never said that it was his most important quote. But why am I not surpised that you downplay it?

Does it not seem like it was important to him...seeing as it was only the final major culmination speech of his entire career?

Was it that Ike just wouldn't know about such matters?

Ya know, I really don't care why you feel his opinion is invalid...further evidence that today's right is off the charts compared to any president we had in the 20th century. But if it makes you feel better...it looks like you've successfully second guessed Eisenhower on military matters.
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You're right, you didn't say it was the most important quote of Ike's career. It is, however, the quote you gave us and almost certainly the only thing he ever said you can recall (with a tip of the hat to JFK conspiracists everywhere). And I'm not trying to downplay the comment. In fact, if you can find the word "invalid" or anything close to it in my post, I'll donate $100 to your favorite charity. Help me out here, would that be IWW or SDS?

I'll leave it grammarians and rhetoricians to untangle "final major culmination speech of his entire career" (presumably there was a whole series of "major culmination speeches," of which this was mercifully the last one). There's a point lurking in there somewhere, we'll all just have to dig it out.

Ike was concerned, and said so. And I take his point. He was right to be concerned. However, you and Oliver and the rest of the conspiracy crowd want to take it much further than the evidence suggests he intended. And the quote came 60 years ago, at the height of the Cold War. Has nothing changed since then? Would you prefer state run defense industries? Or, better yet, no defense industries at all? But Oliver, and presumably you, believe Ike bravely told the truth about "elements" in the Pentagon who were so concerned about acquiring weapons systems that they would assassinate a president. How did Oliver put it. "This was a coup d'etat, with Lyndon Johnson waiting in the wings." Smears, distortions, and lies. Without a shred of evidence to support it.

And that stuff about second guessing Ike on military matters isn't even up to your customary middle school standards.
 
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Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

so rover,

what about that study mckinsey did where they opine that at a minimum 30% of companies that currently offer health insurance will drop it - since it's cheaper to pay the fine and give a raise to workers than pay $20k+ in premiums? sure, if say citizens bank drops it their workers may apply to boa, but boa already has workers - and if boa sees how much td saves, why wouldn't they do the same?

(and i'm asking your opinion since you put more thought into this than most people - don't just reply "KNUCKLE DRAGGERS!!!!" :D )
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

I'd be curious to find out what percentage of the workforce that 30% represents. And whether they actually DID drop it versus just posturing and quietly keeping it.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
I'd be curious to find out what percentage of the workforce that 30% represents. And whether they actually DID drop it versus just posturing and quietly keeping it.
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Nothing has been done yet... This isn't coming into action for another two yrs.
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

mookie1995 said:
Nothing has been done yet... This isn't coming into action for another two yrs.
Click to expand...

It's one thing to claim you're going to drop insurance. It's something else to completely throw your entire employee base under the health care bus. Watch for an exodus from your company as soon as the employees find an opening.

That's what happened at my old company. They treated us like sh*t when the economy was down (a lot of stuff that probably wasn't legal) and now their top talent abandoned ship. The most talented people will always be able to get job offers elsewhere, no matter what the economy is like.
 
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

dxmnkd316 said:
It's one thing to claim you're going to drop insurance. It's something else to completely throw your entire employee base under the health care bus. Watch for an exodus from your company as soon as the employees find an opening.
Click to expand...

It's like when we were warned the stock market would crater after this passed... It's taking an awfully long time to tank...
 
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