Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

[geezer]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

I'm hoping for a Romney win now and an outright appeal. Cantor is going to hold a vote next week on it in the House. And when the repeal passes and the economy doesn't take off like a rocket ship like it's supposed to cause the bill is the "job killing bill of the century" I want to hear the spin from the right.

lol. for some reason this reasoning sounds like some exceptionally short-sighted Simpsons character. That would seem to be some very bitter gloating.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

lol. for some reason this reasoning sounds like some exceptionally short-sighted Simpsons character. That would seem to be some very bitter gloating.

The facts are that no one in Washington are anywhere else is owning up to what really is going to be required for Health Care. Romney's hilarious reaction to the Supreme Court ruling was to say that he'll repeal the law but keep all the provisions. What?

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Sorry, I don't see the tax increase that you and Sean Hannity do.

A differnt way of looking at it is to point out that all gov't spending is a tax. Either paid for by taxes, borrowing (delayed taxes) or inflation (a tax on savings). This baby is going to cost at least $1.7T. One way or another taxes are going to pay for it.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

A differnt way of looking at it is to point out that all gov't spending is a tax. Either paid for by taxes, borrowing (delayed taxes) or inflation (a tax on savings). This baby is going to cost at least $1.7T. One way or another taxes are going to pay for it.

Talk to the Baby Boomers. They set the system and it's going to fail.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

A differnt way of looking at it is to point out that all gov't spending is a tax. Either paid for by taxes, borrowing (delayed taxes) or inflation (a tax on savings). This baby is going to cost at least $1.7T. One way or another taxes are going to pay for it.

Taxes or further borrowing.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Taxes or further borrowing.

It's not taxes until the Baby Boomers are dead. So, there is no tax increase. We will borrow.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Listened to Dave Ramsey last night, and his take on this was that it'll hurt Obama's reelection chances, as businesses cut back on employees due to the higher cost of having an employee as a result of Obamacare. How much that happens before the election (as compared to after the election) is probably hard to say.

Here's one other consideration: Can the business pay the tax per hire instead of providing insurance? Obviously the implication is the same, but this is from a point of aesthetics.

Assume the $750/year case provided earlier. That's approximately $15/week (I'm going to estimate, there's enough complaining in this thread that we don't need more people saying "I was told there would be no math"...), assuming 40 hours per week, that would be a cost of 60 cents per hour, per employee. Would you cut pay by that much?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Sorry, I don't see the tax increase that you and Sean Hannity do.

You have just proved that you are incapable of having a legitimate debate and wish to resort to partisan pandering. Say hello to my ignore list.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

So Fish...why is the right putting so much hate on Roberts for putting the Constitution first?

I have no idea, why not ask them?

I thought Roberts came up with a brilliant solution, faced with a seemingly impossible choice, he opted for "neither" and chose a third way instead. He correctly (in my view) said quite clearly that this is a political problem, not a legal problem....and meanwhile he cemented very clear, strict limits on any future attempt at another "commerce clause" argument. In the long run, it seems to me that this is a big win for the right.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Here's one other consideration: Can the business pay the tax per hire instead of providing insurance? Obviously the implication is the same, but this is from a point of aesthetics.

Assume the $750/year case provided earlier. That's approximately $15/week (I'm going to estimate, there's enough complaining in this thread that we don't need more people saying "I was told there would be no math"...), assuming 40 hours per week, that would be a cost of 60 cents per hour, per employee. Would you cut pay by that much?

Somehow the business has to make the numbers balance out. So, assuming there's no easy cuts elsewhere (as those likely would have been made anyway) the business would either cut peoples' pay or raise prices on the good/service they provide. The first seems more likely, as the second would disadvantage the business in competing against others, unless everyone raises prices.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

You're just assuming that FreshFish's beliefs are those of the authoritarian right.

He doesn't care what my beliefs are at all, he rarely responds to what I actually say. Sort of like in the emerald city in the book version of the wizard of oz, he wears tinted glasses that color everything he sees, and doesn't realize that the color isn't really there, since he's unaware that his glasses are tinted.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

I don't know if I'm the only one here, but I see the government as a corporation. You're not forced to buy from this country; heck, 5.5 billion don't! The policies are no different. The implementation is no different.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Yesterday's Supreme Court ruling highlighted just how bad a law the PPACA is: [bullet point list, quoting from ruling]

Yeah, but the Republican alternative is even worse!

Hmm... by your use of the words "even worse" it sounds like you implicitly agree, eh? but how does the Republican alternative have anything whatsoever to do with the stand-alone merits, or lack thereof, of PPACA? are you just using that as a distraction?

Your mother wears army boots! [self-congratulatory high five!]

Hmm....thanks for the instructive lesson in thoughtful dialog.

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Heh heh heh. Slate has an article today about The 8 Stages of Conservative Grief. I think we're seeing a similar effort on this thread.

USCHO Conserative: "yeah, uh, its not so bad....uh Commerce Clause....that was good, right...we can expect Anthony Kennedy the man who gave us the emminent domain ruling to be with us on that....And Romney, yeah Romney...this will rocket him to victory....just as soon as they destroy all those tapes where he says he supports both a tax on his constituents and an individual mandate..."

So, what is more amusing? The hope that Mittens Romney will somehow be elected President AND have the stones to overturn anything, OR the mistaken belief that the whole thing can be overturned via the reconciliation process?

See as has been mentioned, even if you overturn the exchanges and give back the money to the hospitals and drug companies that they contributed, the individual mandate as well as the coverage of up to 26 years old and ban on denying coverage for pre-existing conditions all need to overcome a filibuster. Good luck with that. Why would you get rid of the market driven mechanism to extend health care coverage while being forced to keep the govt requirement to carry it?

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

I have no idea, why not ask them?

He just did.

Good news for all of you who are horrified by this decision and want to escape the bootheel of the evil Muslin Marxist Dictator currently occupying the White House. You can join so many on the right by vowing to move to Canada until the election (because they know nothing of Socialism there!) when the Kenyan is tossed out on his arse. Or you can choose to move to Senegal, which has no Socialism at all. Sure, there are French-speaking Muslins who also happen to be black and only about 800 doctors in a country of 13 million, but there's no Socialism! Good chance to pull yourselves up by your boot straps without a pesky federal government to look over your shoulder.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

I thought Roberts came up with a brilliant solution, faced with a seemingly impossible choice, he opted for "neither" and chose a third way instead. He correctly (in my view) said quite clearly that this is a political problem, not a legal problem....and meanwhile he cemented very clear, strict limits on any future attempt at another "commerce clause" argument. In the long run, it seems to me that this is a big win for the right.

Who needs the commerce clause when you can now just label something as a tax? In fact, you don't even have to label it as a tax. It just needs to kind of look like a tax. The National gov't can how force you to recycle by taxing you if you don't.

 

[walrus]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

So, what is more amusing? The hope that Mittens Romney will somehow be elected President AND have the stones to overturn anything, OR the mistaken belief that the whole thing can be overturned via the reconciliation process??

This is truly funny. Reading comments on Yahoo, its amazing folks think Romney is the next coming and will make everything all right. Last week he was garbage, today his campaign got 4 million bucks. Has Romney said how he would over turn it? That should be some great reading

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

This is a laugh riot. To sum up, one idiot thinks the court ruling told people to come back again in two years, some others think this will insure a Romney Presidency (?!?), and then apparently not using the Commerce Clause to uphold the law is some sort of newfound conservative wet dream.

Haven't had this much fun on the board for awhile, but its nothing compared to what I'm going to do the day after election day!

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Sorry, I don't see the tax increase that you and Sean Hannity do.

Really? $750 per American = $225B tax increase. The fact that you can get a tax credit against it by buying health insurance does not mean that the tax does not exist.

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

ABC News digs up video of Mitt Romney admiting in a January 2008 Republican presidential debate that the individual health care mandate he passed in Massachusetts was indeed a tax.

CHARLIE GIBSON: Governor, you imposed tax penalties in Massachusetts...

MITT ROMNEY: Yes, we said, look, if people can afford to buy it, either buy the insurance or pay your own way; don't be free-riders and pass on the cost to your health care to everybody else...


Yup, that's right. THIS is the man who's supposed to be your savior!