Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

That must be a really catchy tune to have so many people whistling it today....must be a nice graveyard to have so many people strolling past!

The law anticipates that 4 million people will pay the tax rather than buy health insurance....sounds like a pretty substantial tax increase to me! and this from the person who's motto supposedly is "do the math"??

Roberts again, quoting the CBO:

[emphasis added]

So the CBO anticipates that this tax will affect 4 million people.

And that's their choice. They don't have to pay it if they don't want to.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Fishy Troll is Fishy

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

That must be a really catchy tune to have so many people whistling it today....must be a nice graveyard to have so many people strolling past!

The law anticipates that 4 million people will pay the tax rather than buy health insurance....sounds like a pretty substantial tax increase to me! and this from the person who's motto supposedly is "do the math"??

Roberts again, quoting the CBO:

[emphasis added]

So the CBO anticipates that this tax will affect 4 million people.

I submit to you sir that 4,000,000 > 0.

I'd be careful... Scooby is usually one of those in tLodge that complains about math.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

you guarantee[d] it would be overturned.

It was ruled unconstitutional under the commerce clause...you do know that, right?

It is only allowed to stand as a tax, the "mandate" is not a "requirement."

Go ahead and ignore the storm clouds, pretend it's a sunny day, that's fine.....

or if you prefer, blame the weatherman for predicting weather you don't like. I'm not responsible for your choice to project your delusions on others.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

It was ruled unconstitutional under the commerce clause...you do know that, right?

It is only allowed to stand as a tax, the "mandate" is not a "requirement."

Go ahead and ignore the storm clouds, pretend it's a sunny day, that's fine.....

or if you prefer, blame the weatherman for predicting weather you don't like. I'm not responsible for your choice to project your delusions on others.

The mandate would have been constitutional if you required a resident of one state taking health care in another state to have insurance. However, if they stay in the same state, that is up to the state to decide, not the federal government.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Yah, 4 million paying what, $750 a year? That's only $3 billion. That's a rounding error for the feds. That's less than the federal deficit increases each day.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

So Fish...why is the right putting so much hate on Roberts for putting the Constitution first? I thought the right kind of supported the Constitution.

“It [the Affordable Care Act] will be dead on November 6th and then impeachment proceedings will conclude on January 20th against Justice Roberts,” wrote a commenter on the conservative blog Powerline.

“IMPEACH JUSTICE ROBERTS,” wrote a commenter at Hot Air.

RedState’s Erick Erickson reasoned that Roberts wanted to stay above the fray. “John Roberts’ opinion seems to clearly suggest he wants to keep the Supreme Court out of political fights and was willing to destroy his reputation with conservatives to do it,” he wrote on his blog.

 

[geezer]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

There is no tax if you have Health Insurance. The way the system is set up nowadays you need Health Insurance. So, there is no tax increase.

this is not a viewpoint you'll want to defend later. There are easier ways.

For example, if the government decided that every kid you have after the first needs to be killed to save polar bears (for which policy there is a direct precedent), it would be easy to say, in this day and age nobody has any business being the second of two kids anyway. So we're only killing off the abominations, not real people. The fact is, it's still a tax for the people who will have to pay it, whether or not you think they "should have" gotten themselves into that situation. When you add all those uninsured people up, some people (Hannity disciples only? perhaps) think it will add up to the largest gross tax increase in U.S. history. I think the size remains to be seen but you can't say it's not coming.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Yah, 4 million paying what, $750 a year? That's only $3 billion. That's a rounding error for the feds. That's less than the federal deficit increases each day.

$750 a year is approximately $15 a week. I get more than that taken out of my paycheck for health insurance, and I have not yet had the need to use the insurance. If the requirement to not deny a health insurance applicant based upon current health stands (as it would with Obamacare), it would be in my benefit to cancel my insurance, pay the $15 per week tax (especially if I am able to deduct interest/dividend taxed money going toward that), and just pick up "insurance" when I absolutely need it.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

So Fish...why is the right putting so much hate on Roberts for putting the Constitution first? I thought the right kind of supported the Constitution.

“It [the Affordable Care Act] will be dead on November 6th and then impeachment proceedings will conclude on January 20th against Justice Roberts,” wrote a commenter on the conservative blog Powerline.

“IMPEACH JUSTICE ROBERTS,” wrote a commenter at Hot Air.

RedState’s Erick Erickson reasoned that Roberts wanted to stay above the fray. “John Roberts’ opinion seems to clearly suggest he wants to keep the Supreme Court out of political fights and was willing to destroy his reputation with conservatives to do it,” he wrote on his blog.

You're just assuming that FreshFish's beliefs are those of the authoritarian right.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

this is not a viewpoint you'll want to defend later. There are easier ways.

For example, if the government decided that every kid you have after the first needs to be killed to save polar bears (for which policy there is a direct precedent), it would be easy to say, in this day and age nobody has any business being the second of two kids anyway. So we're only killing off the abominations, not real people. The fact is, it's still a tax for the people who will have to pay it, whether or not you think they "should have" gotten themselves into that situation. When you add all those uninsured people up, some people (Hannity disciples only? perhaps) think it will add up to the largest gross tax increase in U.S. history. I think the size remains to be seen but you can't say it's not coming.

So, as Bob points out, a rounding error is the largest tax increase in U.S. History? Meanwhile, the Republicans (and Romney) are saying that they're going to repeal the law but keep all the provisions that cost all the money (kids till 26, can't be denied for pre-existing, etc.) and they're not going to tax us to do it.

Who exactly is living in Fantasy Land here? Cause it's not Obama and it's not the left.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

this is not a viewpoint you'll want to defend later. There are easier ways.

For example, if the government decided that every kid you have after the first needs to be killed to save polar bears (for which policy there is a direct precedent), it would be easy to say, in this day and age nobody has any business being the second of two kids anyway. So we're only killing off the abominations, not real people. The fact is, it's still a tax for the people who will have to pay it, whether or not you think they "should have" gotten themselves into that situation. When you add all those uninsured people up, some people (Hannity disciples only? perhaps) think it will add up to the largest gross tax increase in U.S. history. I think the size remains to be seen but you can't say it's not coming.

The claims that Obamacare won't massively increase costs, meaning taxes go up a lot to pay for it or the budget deficit gets even worse, or spending is cut massively elsewhere in the federal budget (yah, that's likely) are totaly horse pucky and always have been. These big social mandates always grow massively beyond what anyone at first envisions (or at least claims to envision). As usual, the feds commit to spend more and more money and have no idea where it's going to come from.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Listened to Dave Ramsey last night, and his take on this was that it'll hurt Obama's reelection chances, as businesses cut back on employees due to the higher cost of having an employee as a result of Obamacare. How much that happens before the election (as compared to after the election) is probably hard to say.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

RedState’s Erick Erickson reasoned that Roberts wanted to stay above the fray. “John Roberts’ opinion seems to clearly suggest he wants to keep the Supreme Court out of political fights and was willing to destroy his reputation with conservatives to do it,” he wrote on his blog.

Translation: on this issue, at least, he made a legal decision rather than a political decision, and now "conservatives" are freaking out because they didn't get their accustomed candy.

Given Roberts' record I wouldn't depend on this to continue, but who knows? Maybe he's evolving towards actually being the umpire he claimed he wanted to be during the nomination hearings. He wouldn't be the first to betray his paymasters. And it must be tough to listen to Scalia's self-important bombast and Alito's robotic partisanship year after year without thinking, "Jesus, why am I agreeing with these guys?"

 

[geezer]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

So, as Bob points out, a rounding error is the largest tax increase in U.S. History? Meanwhile, the Republicans (and Romney) are saying that they're going to repeal the law but keep all the provisions that cost all the money (kids till 26, can't be denied for pre-existing, etc.) and they're not going to tax us to do it.

Who exactly is living in Fantasy Land here? Cause it's not Obama and it's not the left.

You completely missed the whole point. You said, "There is no tax increase," based on the notion that people ought to be able to comply with the jack-booted thugs enough to avoid paying the new tax. The fact is that regardless of whether it's billions of dollars or "a rounding error" (depending on how many people get caught), you can't truthfully say "There is no tax increase." That's just wishful thinking.
I'm not defending the wish to repeal. I'm just saying that we will be paying for our indulgences one way or another.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

So, as Bob points out, a rounding error is the largest tax increase in U.S. History? Meanwhile, the Republicans (and Romney) are saying that they're going to repeal the law but keep all the provisions that cost all the money (kids till 26, can't be denied for pre-existing, etc.) and they're not going to tax us to do it.

Who exactly is living in Fantasy Land here? Cause it's not Obama and it's not the left.

There'll be a whole lot more cost increases than just the direct tax on those who don't buy insurance. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

You completely missed the whole point. You said, "There is no tax increase," based on the notion that people ought to be able to comply with the jack-booted thugs enough to avoid paying the new tax. The fact is that regardless of whether it's billions of dollars or "a rounding error" (depending on how many people get caught), you can't truthfully say "There is no tax increase." That's just wishful thinking.
I'm not defending the wish to repeal. I'm just saying that we will be paying for our indulgences one way or another.

I'm hoping for a Romney win now and an outright appeal. Cantor is going to hold a vote next week on it in the House. And when the repeal passes and the economy doesn't take off like a rocket ship like it's supposed to cause the bill is the "job killing bill of the century" I want to hear the spin from the right.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

So, as Bob points out, a rounding error is the largest tax increase in U.S. History? Meanwhile, the Republicans (and Romney) are saying that they're going to repeal the law but keep all the provisions that cost all the money (kids till 26, can't be denied for pre-existing, etc.) and they're not going to tax us to do it.

Who exactly is living in Fantasy Land here? Cause it's not Obama and it's not the left.

Scooby, I am seriously starting to believe that you do not understand 2000 words. Allowing a child to remain on insurance until 26 is only under an assumption that the parent has insurance, and is ENTIRELY bore in the private sector. Also, the cost of the prohibition of refusal is ENTIRELY bore in the private sector (i.e. the insurance company), regardless of whether or not the tax is in place. Basically, your argument is comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

I'm not defending the wish to repeal. I'm just saying that we will be paying for our indulgences one way or another.

We won't pay for them. Our children and our children's children will pay for them. That's how things work nowadays.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Scooby, I am seriously starting to believe that you do not understand 2000 words. Allowing a child to remain on insurance until 26 is only under an assumption that the parent has insurance, and is ENTIRELY bore in the private sector. Also, the cost of the prohibition of refusal is ENTIRELY bore in the private sector (i.e. the insurance company), regardless of whether or not the tax is in place. Basically, your argument is comparing apples to oranges.

Sorry, I don't see the tax increase that you and Sean Hannity do.