Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

[joecct]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

But you just said members of Congress would run away from it....

Any Dem who is in a safe seat has no need to run from it. If there are any remaining Blue Dogs, they may be in trouble.

Do you guys think the Tea Party, which has not been in the news lately, starts making a reemergence?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

It's going to be more important who's running the Congre$$ in January. I would prefer a limited government, limited taxes Congre$$ than the past 4.

I'd be happy to have a slight GOP lead in congress and a dem president. When the GOP stays on task it can be effective and efficient. Likewise a dem president is more likely more effective from a diplomatic standpoint and is frequently just a more positive role model.

IMO its probably the best mix.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Meanwhile, elsewhere, the House found Holder in contempt of Congress, which in itself is no surpise, it was widely expected.

What I found absolutely jaw-dropping, however, was the vote total: 255 - 67.

There are 435 Representatives, so that means that, on top of the 17 Democrats who voted 'yes', as many as an astounding 113 more Democrates refused to vote no!


Naturally, they are saying that they "walked out in protest," but in a town where actions speak more loudly than words, the translation is "OK, we have your back to the extent that we won't vote 'yes' and we're letting you know by not voting 'no' that you are venturing into dangerous territory and better stop stone-walling, or we won't be able to hold out much longer if this heats up as an issue in an election year. Don't ask us to defend you on this one because we won't."

in the shadows today, will become even bigger in the weeks to come. the mainstream media are starating to sniff blood in the water, and a few are tentatively starting to circle.....for the sake of control of Congress, they need to find a face-saving way out quickly.


The size of the "no" total is around 130, that's about 60% of the House Democrats or something like that, no? A canary in the coal mine moment. Will he notice and take heed? Stay tuned....

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

No doubt in the Pres race but I was talking Congressional races. For instance I can't see my Rep in Maine campaigning based on Obamacare, I'll bet he runs from it when the tax increases are mentioned.

I think this will depend on the district. In districts where a lot of people will lose their care on repeal the GOP candidate won't make a peep. In districts that are affluent and tax-averse already, the Dem candidate will be silent as a Death Panel tomb.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Naturally, they are saying that they "walked out in protest," but in a town where actions speak more loudly than words, the translation is "OK, we have your back to the extent that we won't vote 'yes' and we're letting you know by not voting 'no' that you are venturing into dangerous territory and better stop stone-walling, or we won't be able to hold out much longer if this heats up as an issue in an election year. Don't ask us to defend you on this one because we won't."

No, it translates to "obvious political vote is obvious."

I hate walk-outs, I'd much rather they speak truth to this sort of grandstanding, but it's one of the rules of the game. It doesn't mean what you suggest at all. The entire stunt doesn't amount to anything outside of a few righties' fever dreams.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

No, it translates to "obvious political vote is obvious."

I hate walk-outs, I'd much rather they speak truth to this sort of grandstanding, but it's one of the rules of the game. It doesn't mean what you suggest at all. The entire stunt doesn't amount to anything outside of a few righties' fever dreams.

well, we can agree to disagree, and watch and wait and see what happens.


I've done pretty well on these calls lately, though....I've seen these situations play out several times before, this one isn't unique....they do tend to follow a pattern. Ordinary people are generally pretty forgiving of most mistakes if you just open up and admit them, and they also get increasingly irritated if a person keeps dissembling.


There's also another significant difference between our assessments....I really don't care very much one way or the other, while you come across as having an emotional investment in defending one side or another. I'm impatient with various matters across the entire political spectrum, just because I think much Democratic policy these days is wrong-headed doesn't mean I'm enamored with anything the Republicans have to offer. I don't really have "positions" on issues, I very much prefer to reside in the question and defer finding answers, it's more interesting and frankly more fun that way.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

There's also another significant difference between our assessments....I really don't care very much one way or the other, while you come across as having an emotional investment in defending one side or another.

Yes, when you repeatedly post NRO talking points it's just you being non-partisan and open-minded.

It's fine that many of your posts are just being a waterboy for the GOP -- Lord knows there are plenty on both sides playing that game -- but for Pete's sake just admit it. Nobody is buying the concern troll act.

 

[joecct]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Yes, when you repeatedly post NRO talking points it's just you being non-partisan and open-minded.

It's fine that you are a waterboy for the GOP but for Pete's sake just admit it. Nobody is buying the concern troll act.

Why would the National Reconnaissance Office get involved?? Oh that's right -- drones!!!

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Why would the National Reconnaissance Office get involved?? Oh that's right -- drones!!!

LOL. Very nice.

Drones are the DIA. The NRO aims a bit... higher.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

The more I think about it, the more today's ruling seems like a pyrrhic victory for Obama:
> he can't run against the Supreme Court any more, in fact how can he criticize them at all?
> he has to acknowledge that he raised taxes on people making less than $250,000 per year = he broke a promise
> the ruling very clearly and explicilty put firm, distinct limits on Federal government power: no more commerce clause arguments going forward
> now people will stop talking about whether the law is unconstitutional or not and start paying attention to what the law really does
> Roberts explicitly points out that the tax is less than what premiums would be, any sensible thinking person has got to wonder "how does that work.


"Mr. Obama, it's Chief Justice Roberts at the door, he has this wonderful Trojan Horse for you? Bring it in, mount in the White House lobby? Well, of course!"

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

...[various defensive remarks]....

Hello, Mr. Pot, this is Mr. Kettle, thank you so much for calling! Pull up a chair and have a beer by the fire with me?


I keep telling you I don't care, you keep disbelieving me and wind up looking foolish. you can keep swinging and missing and I'll keep dodging and I won't swing back...."the only way to win Professor Falken is not to play."

 

[Foxton]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

The more I think about it, the more today's ruling seems like a pyrrhic victory for Obama:
> he can't run against the Supreme Court any more, in fact how can he criticize them at all?
> he has to acknowledge that he raised taxes on people making less than $250,000 per year = he broke a promise
> the ruling very clearly and explicilty put firm, distinct limits on Federal government power: no more commerce clause arguments going forward
> now people will stop talking about whether the law is unconstitutional or not and start paying attention to what the law really does
> Roberts explicitly points out that the tax is less than what premiums would be, any sensible thinking person has got to wonder "how does that work.


"Mr. Obama, it's Chief Justice Roberts at the door, he has this wonderful Trojan Horse for you? Bring it in, mount in the White House lobby? Well, of course!"

Even if Obama "wins" on something, it's really a win for the republicans.

 

[unofan]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

The more I think about it, the more today's ruling seems like a pyrrhic victory for Obama:
> he can't run against the Supreme Court any more, in fact how can he criticize them at all?
> he has to acknowledge that he raised taxes on people making less than $250,000 per year = he broke a promise
> the ruling very clearly and explicilty put firm, distinct limits on Federal government power: no more commerce clause arguments going forward
> now people will stop talking about whether the law is unconstitutional or not and start paying attention to what the law really does
> Roberts explicitly points out that the tax is less than what premiums would be, any sensible thinking person has got to wonder "how does that work.


"Mr. Obama, it's Chief Justice Roberts at the door, he has this wonderful Trojan Horse for you? Bring it in, mount in the White House lobby? Well, of course!"

So if SCOTUS has ruled it unconstitutional, it would have been a victory for the President?

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

"Mr. Obama, it's Chief Justice Roberts at the door, he has this wonderful Trojan Horse for you? Bring it in, mount in the White House lobby? Well, of course!"

Just read the guts of his statement. Not even close to what was said or implied.

hook...line...sinker

 

[joecct]

Just read the guts of his statement. Not even close to what was said or implied.

hook...line...sinker

CJR's argument gets boiled down to "You voted them in. They passed it. You don't like it?
Then vote them out."

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

CJR's argument gets boiled down to "You voted them in. They passed it. You don't like it?
Then vote them out."

Umm...not possible as that doesn't determine Constitutionality. And regarding your spin on what he said? hook...line...sucker

 

[geezer]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

The more I think about it, the more today's ruling seems like a pyrrhic victory for Obama:
> he can't run against the Supreme Court any more, in fact how can he criticize them at all?
> he has to acknowledge that he raised taxes on people making less than $250,000 per year = he broke a promise
> the ruling very clearly and explicilty put firm, distinct limits on Federal government power: no more commerce clause arguments going forward
> now people will stop talking about whether the law is unconstitutional or not and start paying attention to what the law really does
> Roberts explicitly points out that the tax is less than what premiums would be, any sensible thinking person has got to wonder "how does that work.


"Mr. Obama, it's Chief Justice Roberts at the door, he has this wonderful Trojan Horse for you? Bring it in, mount in the White House lobby? Well, of course!"

I don't know, but the politics bloggers over at Slate (very left wing) agree with you. They're all in a panic about IT'S A TRAP and screaming that we need to stop praising Roberts until we're able to figure out exactly how much damage he just did with his dirty, sneaky upholding of President Obama's plan. (in other words, they have no idea what just happened but think it's probably bad, and suspect that Roberts is about 10 steps ahead of everyone)

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

There's also another significant difference between our assessments....I really don't care very much one way or the other, while you come across as having an emotional investment in defending one side or another. I'm impatient with various matters across the entire political spectrum...

If that is true you've not demonstrated this to any degree that I recall.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

I just love it when people claim to not care very much about something while posting massive quantities of text about it.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Umm...not possible as that doesn't determine Constitutionality. And regarding your spin on what he said? hook...line...sucker

What a nice tune you are whistling on your stroll past the graveyard!


let's agree merely to wait and re-visit this conversation on Nov 7.


Oh, by the way, this is what Roberts actually wrote in his decision:

Members of this Court are vested with the authority to interpret the law; we possess neither the expertise nor the prerogative to make policy judgments. Those decisions are entrusted to our Nation’s elected leaders, who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.

[emphasis added]


Do you seriously belive that this language is not going to appear in commercials this fall? Seriously?