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unofan
Well-known member
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
It was 7-2 in the judgment, 5-4 in the farther reaching aspects. Sotomeyer and Ginsburg did not join the majority opinion.
And it wasn't really that surprising of a ruling. SCOTUS has placed a lot of limits on involuntary political contributions for unions lately.
It was 7-2 in the judgment, 5-4 in the farther reaching aspects. Sotomeyer and Ginsburg did not join the majority opinion.
And it wasn't really that surprising of a ruling. SCOTUS has placed a lot of limits on involuntary political contributions for unions lately.
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
to quote Henry David Thoreau from Walden
"Go ahead and build your 'castles in the air', for that is where they belong. Now go and put foundations under them."
The 'Utopia' of expanded social connections seems to me in its embryonic form....that grandmother who was bullied on the schoolbus? You may recall that she was working there because she needed the money? The viral internet drive that was started to raise $5,000 to send her on a nice vacation has now topped $400,000, she'll be able to retire.
If you look, you can find reputable micro-lending sites, so that you can "do well by doing good."
There are problems with free markets; and also tremendous potential. Freedom + responsibility to me is far preferable to dependency + forced obligation.
Stay cool, y'all.
to quote Henry David Thoreau from Walden
"Go ahead and build your 'castles in the air', for that is where they belong. Now go and put foundations under them."
The 'Utopia' of expanded social connections seems to me in its embryonic form....that grandmother who was bullied on the schoolbus? You may recall that she was working there because she needed the money? The viral internet drive that was started to raise $5,000 to send her on a nice vacation has now topped $400,000, she'll be able to retire.
If you look, you can find reputable micro-lending sites, so that you can "do well by doing good."
There are problems with free markets; and also tremendous potential. Freedom + responsibility to me is far preferable to dependency + forced obligation.
Stay cool, y'all.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
While that is a nice story (or, at least, a nice outcome to a horrible story), let's not forget that the only reason she's getting that money is because one of the kids was stupid enough to film it and put it on the internet. For every bullied grandma on a school bus that gets a 6 or 7 figure payout from the generosity of others, there are thousands of school workers and hundreds of thousands of students being bullied without recompense.
She hit the proverbial lottery. Many others are not so fortunate through no fault of their own.
to quote Henry David Thoreau from Walden
"Go ahead and build your 'castles in the air', for that is where they belong. Now go and put foundations under them."
The 'Utopia' of expanded social connections seems to me in its embryonic form....that grandmother who was bullied on the schoolbus? You may recall that she was working there because she needed the money? The viral internet drive that was started to raise $5,000 to send her on a nice vacation has now topped $400,000, she'll be able to retire.
If you look, you can find reputable micro-lending sites, so that you can "do well by doing good."
There are problems with free markets; and also tremendous potential. Freedom + responsibility to me is far preferable to dependency + forced obligation.
Stay cool, y'all.
While that is a nice story (or, at least, a nice outcome to a horrible story), let's not forget that the only reason she's getting that money is because one of the kids was stupid enough to film it and put it on the internet. For every bullied grandma on a school bus that gets a 6 or 7 figure payout from the generosity of others, there are thousands of school workers and hundreds of thousands of students being bullied without recompense.
She hit the proverbial lottery. Many others are not so fortunate through no fault of their own.
to quote Henry David Thoreau from Walden
"Go ahead and build your 'castles in the air', for that is where they belong. Now go and put foundations under them."
The 'Utopia' of expanded social connections seems to me in its embryonic form....that grandmother who was bullied on the schoolbus? You may recall that she was working there because she needed the money? The viral internet drive that was started to raise $5,000 to send her on a nice vacation has now topped $400,000, she'll be able to retire.
If you look, you can find reputable micro-lending sites, so that you can "do well by doing good."
There are problems with free markets; and also tremendous potential. Freedom + responsibility to me is far preferable to dependency + forced obligation.
Stay cool, y'all.
Ah, but the politicians have learned to lead via anecdote. So as long as the free market includes people losing, cheating or winning big there will be anecdotes galore, small numbers teased for effect etc. the message has to be transferable in 20 seconds so there is no time for much more than a sound bite. Doesn't matter if it misleads, as long as they see it trending or polling they know it is working.
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
Even on a sunny day, that rain cloud follows you everywhere you go, doesn't it? Sounds like we need more ambulance chasers to file more lawsuits. Just for sh*ts and giggles, why don't you share with us the source of that "hundreds of thousands" figure you tossed around like lawn darts.
Even on a sunny day, that rain cloud follows you everywhere you go, doesn't it? Sounds like we need more ambulance chasers to file more lawsuits. Just for sh*ts and giggles, why don't you share with us the source of that "hundreds of thousands" figure you tossed around like lawn darts.
Foxton
Banned
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
BTW, how bout you ask that one guy from Ron Paul's staff on how well the free market provides for it's followers.
Your stupid, it BURNNNSSSSS.
BTW, how bout you ask that one guy from Ron Paul's staff on how well the free market provides for it's followers.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
In a country of 300 million, there are probably what, 45 million kids under the age of 18? Maybe more (45 million would be 15% of the population).
200,000 (hundreds of thousands) is therefore less than one half of one percent of the school aged population, or approximately 1 out of 200. I guarantee at least that many are being bullied. In all likelihood, it's way higher than that. This is my low ball estimate.
In a country of 300 million, there are probably what, 45 million kids under the age of 18? Maybe more (45 million would be 15% of the population).
200,000 (hundreds of thousands) is therefore less than one half of one percent of the school aged population, or approximately 1 out of 200. I guarantee at least that many are being bullied. In all likelihood, it's way higher than that. This is my low ball estimate.
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Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
In other words, you pulled that figure out of your a*s.
"Bullying" is the latest cause du jour in certain circles. Combine that with the suicides of some bullied gay kids and all the amateur liberal shrinks out there conclude that the "bullying" caused the suicides. Perhaps in Oprahworld, but not necessarily in the real world.
There's no question real bullies have a much wider range of options these days and there's also no question the nature of their "bullying" is more intense than in the old days. Even so, I hope we avoid the "one size fits all" approach apparantly favored by the well-meaning but hysterical advocates for the "victims" of bullying. To be sure, there are victims. But no reliable data to quantify the number or the nature of the "bullying."
In other words, you pulled that figure out of your a*s.
"Bullying" is the latest cause du jour in certain circles. Combine that with the suicides of some bullied gay kids and all the amateur liberal shrinks out there conclude that the "bullying" caused the suicides. Perhaps in Oprahworld, but not necessarily in the real world.
There's no question real bullies have a much wider range of options these days and there's also no question the nature of their "bullying" is more intense than in the old days. Even so, I hope we avoid the "one size fits all" approach apparantly favored by the well-meaning but hysterical advocates for the "victims" of bullying. To be sure, there are victims. But no reliable data to quantify the number or the nature of the "bullying."
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Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
Maybe. Maybe not. Don't we also have to define our terms here? Not every kid who gets a wedgie from a bigger kid runs right out and hangs himself. And as we've seen, the bullying is some times done by adults, with tragic consequences.
Remember the Judas Priest trial? Two seriously disturbed young men got drunk and attempted suicide. One succeeded, three years later the other took an overdose of pills and killed himself. The suggestion was that "subliminal" backwards messages in the group's songs had "caused" the young men to take themselves out. No evidence that "subliminal" messages, played forward or backward, can cause anybody to do anything. Besides, if Judas Priest songs could "cause" young men to attempt suicide you'd expect more than two vicrtims, wouldn't you? There weren't any. Case dismissed.
I also seem to recall that there was a lot of heavy breathing about "Dungeons and Dragons," and how some of the kids playing the game also killed themselves. Cause and effect right? Nope. Correlation.
Think back to Columbine. In the initial reporting of that event, there was a lot of talk about the "Trenchcoat Mafia," and how Klebold and Harris were "members." The impression you got from hearing all that talk was that these kids marched around the school in their dusters, intimidating one and all. Turns out they just formed the "group" for a yearbook photo. Nothing else. Yet hundreds of thousands of concerned words were uttered about this "group." And, as usual, many more words were uttered demanding that we "do something" about "groups" like the trenchcoat mafia. The principal said he'd never heard of 'em.
Collectively we're always looking for simple solutions to complex problems. Remember the "recovered memory" movement? Of course, all of these middle aged, unhappy alcoholic women were sexually abused as kids, they just "repressed" the memory. That explains everything--except it didn't. Alternatively, MPD became the diagnosis du jour, also for fat, middle aged, unhappy alcoholics. MPD exists, but it's rare. Roseanne Barr is not a victim and neither were the vast majority of the others who claimed to be so.
Maybe. Maybe not. Don't we also have to define our terms here? Not every kid who gets a wedgie from a bigger kid runs right out and hangs himself. And as we've seen, the bullying is some times done by adults, with tragic consequences.
Remember the Judas Priest trial? Two seriously disturbed young men got drunk and attempted suicide. One succeeded, three years later the other took an overdose of pills and killed himself. The suggestion was that "subliminal" backwards messages in the group's songs had "caused" the young men to take themselves out. No evidence that "subliminal" messages, played forward or backward, can cause anybody to do anything. Besides, if Judas Priest songs could "cause" young men to attempt suicide you'd expect more than two vicrtims, wouldn't you? There weren't any. Case dismissed.
I also seem to recall that there was a lot of heavy breathing about "Dungeons and Dragons," and how some of the kids playing the game also killed themselves. Cause and effect right? Nope. Correlation.
Think back to Columbine. In the initial reporting of that event, there was a lot of talk about the "Trenchcoat Mafia," and how Klebold and Harris were "members." The impression you got from hearing all that talk was that these kids marched around the school in their dusters, intimidating one and all. Turns out they just formed the "group" for a yearbook photo. Nothing else. Yet hundreds of thousands of concerned words were uttered about this "group." And, as usual, many more words were uttered demanding that we "do something" about "groups" like the trenchcoat mafia. The principal said he'd never heard of 'em.
Collectively we're always looking for simple solutions to complex problems. Remember the "recovered memory" movement? Of course, all of these middle aged, unhappy alcoholic women were sexually abused as kids, they just "repressed" the memory. That explains everything--except it didn't. Alternatively, MPD became the diagnosis du jour, also for fat, middle aged, unhappy alcoholics. MPD exists, but it's rare. Roseanne Barr is not a victim and neither were the vast majority of the others who claimed to be so.
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FadeToBlack&Gold
8647
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
Speaking of amateur shrinks, would you care to show us your license so that we know these broad-stroked opinions are based on medical expertise, "Doc"?
Speaking of amateur shrinks, would you care to show us your license so that we know these broad-stroked opinions are based on medical expertise, "Doc"?
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
There's a reason why the "recovered memory" movement went away. It was junk science. The case that broke the back of this scam involved an Ernest & Julio Gallo executive named Gary Ramona. His unhappy daughter, after many sessions with a "therapist," "remembered" that Gary had sexually abused her as a child. Ramona took the "therapists" to court, where it was revealed that the only time the daughter "remembered" the abuse was under the influence of a powerful drug, administered by the "therapists." The jury found for Ramona and almost instantly, the "recovered memory" movement basically vanished.
From Wikipedia:
"Some criminal cases have been based on a witness's testimony of recovered repressed memories, often of alleged childhood sexual abuse. In some jurisdictions, the statute of limitations for child abuse cases has been extended to accommodate the phenomena of repressed memories as well as other factors. The repressed memory concept came into wider public awareness in the 1980s and 1990s followed by a reduction of public attention after a series of scandals, lawsuits, and license revocations.[62]"
"In 1995, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, ruled in Franklin v. Duncan and Franklin v. Fox, Murray et al, (312 F3d. 423, see also 884 FSupp 1435, N.D. Calif.)[63] that repressed memory is not admissible as evidence in a legal action because of its unreliability, inconsistency, unscientific nature, tendency to be therapeutically induced evidence, and subject to influence by hearsay and suggestibility. The court overturned the conviction of a man accused of murdering a nine-year-old girl purely based upon the evidence of a 21-year-old repressed memory by a lone witness, who also held a complex personal grudge against the defendant.[15][64][65]"
There were many cases of elderly parents being hauled into court, charged with multiple sexual crimes, from 30 or 40 years previous. Of course there was no evidence, only the "recovered memories" of their screwed up daughters. Imagine being in your 60's or 70's and forced to defend yourself against imprecise charges from decades ago for which there isn't a shred of evidence.
Many issues of "Skeptical Inquirer," the journal of the Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal have explored the misuse and misunderstanding of the MPD disagnosis. At one point, advocates for this quackery suggested that various "alters" of MPD "sufferers" be allowed to testify separately at trial. There was even an episode of "Law and Order" about this nonsense.
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/multi..._witchcraft_survives_in_the_twentieth_century
There was widespread hysteria over the issue of child sexual abuse in the 80's and 90's. It manifested itself in the various witch hunt show trials at day care centers, the creation of "recovered memories" and the use and abuse of MPD to explain away bad behavior. In the case of "recovered memory" and MPD it was maintained that these were defenses to the horror of sexual abuse. I'm wondering how many child victims of the holocause have "repressed" their memories or formed other personalities to deal with the horror of that time. None, I would imagine.
Speaking of amateur shrinks, would you care to show us your license so that we know these broad-stroked opinions are based on medical expertise, "Doc"?
There's a reason why the "recovered memory" movement went away. It was junk science. The case that broke the back of this scam involved an Ernest & Julio Gallo executive named Gary Ramona. His unhappy daughter, after many sessions with a "therapist," "remembered" that Gary had sexually abused her as a child. Ramona took the "therapists" to court, where it was revealed that the only time the daughter "remembered" the abuse was under the influence of a powerful drug, administered by the "therapists." The jury found for Ramona and almost instantly, the "recovered memory" movement basically vanished.
From Wikipedia:
"Some criminal cases have been based on a witness's testimony of recovered repressed memories, often of alleged childhood sexual abuse. In some jurisdictions, the statute of limitations for child abuse cases has been extended to accommodate the phenomena of repressed memories as well as other factors. The repressed memory concept came into wider public awareness in the 1980s and 1990s followed by a reduction of public attention after a series of scandals, lawsuits, and license revocations.[62]"
"In 1995, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, ruled in Franklin v. Duncan and Franklin v. Fox, Murray et al, (312 F3d. 423, see also 884 FSupp 1435, N.D. Calif.)[63] that repressed memory is not admissible as evidence in a legal action because of its unreliability, inconsistency, unscientific nature, tendency to be therapeutically induced evidence, and subject to influence by hearsay and suggestibility. The court overturned the conviction of a man accused of murdering a nine-year-old girl purely based upon the evidence of a 21-year-old repressed memory by a lone witness, who also held a complex personal grudge against the defendant.[15][64][65]"
There were many cases of elderly parents being hauled into court, charged with multiple sexual crimes, from 30 or 40 years previous. Of course there was no evidence, only the "recovered memories" of their screwed up daughters. Imagine being in your 60's or 70's and forced to defend yourself against imprecise charges from decades ago for which there isn't a shred of evidence.
Many issues of "Skeptical Inquirer," the journal of the Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal have explored the misuse and misunderstanding of the MPD disagnosis. At one point, advocates for this quackery suggested that various "alters" of MPD "sufferers" be allowed to testify separately at trial. There was even an episode of "Law and Order" about this nonsense.
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/multi..._witchcraft_survives_in_the_twentieth_century
There was widespread hysteria over the issue of child sexual abuse in the 80's and 90's. It manifested itself in the various witch hunt show trials at day care centers, the creation of "recovered memories" and the use and abuse of MPD to explain away bad behavior. In the case of "recovered memory" and MPD it was maintained that these were defenses to the horror of sexual abuse. I'm wondering how many child victims of the holocause have "repressed" their memories or formed other personalities to deal with the horror of that time. None, I would imagine.
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duper
Well-known member
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
According to this website, "hundreds of thousands" is MUCH lower than the actual number.
http://www.bullyingstatistics.org/content/bullying-statistics-2010.html
According to this website, "hundreds of thousands" is MUCH lower than the actual number.
http://www.bullyingstatistics.org/content/bullying-statistics-2010.html
Mind you, who knows how reliable that site is, but it seems hard to imagine that less than half a million kids are bullied in this country.
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
Fork U Mr. President???
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/06/forkless-friday-at-obama-event-127056.html
Apparently, not a one-off event..
Fork U Mr. President???
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/06/forkless-friday-at-obama-event-127056.html
Apparently, not a one-off event..
unofan
Well-known member
Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
No, I made an educated assumption based on observation. And again, that's an extremely low ball estimate, which makes me wonder why you're fighting it so much. Me thinks you doth protest too much.
In reality, I'd say at least one kid per class on average gets bullied. I'd probably peg the actual number at 1 out of 25 or so. Which would be somewhere in the millions.
You're right, not every kid that gets a wedgie kills himself, but you don't have to kill yourself to be counted as having been bullied. Let me guess, in Stand by me you sympathized with Kiefer Sutherland's character, right?
No, I made an educated assumption based on observation. And again, that's an extremely low ball estimate, which makes me wonder why you're fighting it so much. Me thinks you doth protest too much.
In reality, I'd say at least one kid per class on average gets bullied. I'd probably peg the actual number at 1 out of 25 or so. Which would be somewhere in the millions.
You're right, not every kid that gets a wedgie kills himself, but you don't have to kill yourself to be counted as having been bullied. Let me guess, in Stand by me you sympathized with Kiefer Sutherland's character, right?
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Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
I asked Little Mary Sunshine and as usual he proved to be all bark and no bite. I'm with you, a site that makes no pretense of objectively analyzing the data doesn't convince me. In my admittedly cursory glance at their website, I didn't see any explanation of who these people are or where they get their statistics. Besides, in all of these cases the definition of the offending behavior is critical. You know as well as I that people with agendas expand the definition of whatever it is they're against to increase the number of "victims." Which they then use to advance whatever their agenda is. Laws, ordinances, federal programs, money, set asides, whatever.
It's like Frank Riordan in the Kayak spots pulling the (smart) dork's underwear over his head. Yes, that's bullying, but it's doubtful the (smart) dork's gonna kill himself because of it. So let's see if we can't get a working definition of what we're talking about first. As I've posted before, I got "bullied" exactly once in high school. And I responded by bouncing the guy's head off a locker. End of story.
What's really different today is the intensity, frequency and duration of the bullying. And in a few, terrible cases, the bullying seems linked to suicides. Although we've got to be very careful (as always) about confusing correlation with causation. It's so easy to assume that since a kid has been bullied, especially about his sexuality, that if he kills himself, it's because of the bullying. It's just not that simple or clear cut.
But the issue here is not really the prevalence or significance of bullying. It's that Little Mary Sunshine can't ever admit that the glass is half full.Ever. So in the case of the lady bullied on the school bus who's apparantly going to cash in to the tune of half a million bucks, he's incapable of letting us celebrate that moment. He feels compelled to lecture us about the "billions and billions" of bullying victims who aren't going to cash in. Because like so many trendy "problems" and the people who promote them, he's latched on to "bullying" as a threat to the republic. And we better do something, right now, about it. Horseradish.
I asked Little Mary Sunshine and as usual he proved to be all bark and no bite. I'm with you, a site that makes no pretense of objectively analyzing the data doesn't convince me. In my admittedly cursory glance at their website, I didn't see any explanation of who these people are or where they get their statistics. Besides, in all of these cases the definition of the offending behavior is critical. You know as well as I that people with agendas expand the definition of whatever it is they're against to increase the number of "victims." Which they then use to advance whatever their agenda is. Laws, ordinances, federal programs, money, set asides, whatever.
It's like Frank Riordan in the Kayak spots pulling the (smart) dork's underwear over his head. Yes, that's bullying, but it's doubtful the (smart) dork's gonna kill himself because of it. So let's see if we can't get a working definition of what we're talking about first. As I've posted before, I got "bullied" exactly once in high school. And I responded by bouncing the guy's head off a locker. End of story.
What's really different today is the intensity, frequency and duration of the bullying. And in a few, terrible cases, the bullying seems linked to suicides. Although we've got to be very careful (as always) about confusing correlation with causation. It's so easy to assume that since a kid has been bullied, especially about his sexuality, that if he kills himself, it's because of the bullying. It's just not that simple or clear cut.
But the issue here is not really the prevalence or significance of bullying. It's that Little Mary Sunshine can't ever admit that the glass is half full.Ever. So in the case of the lady bullied on the school bus who's apparantly going to cash in to the tune of half a million bucks, he's incapable of letting us celebrate that moment. He feels compelled to lecture us about the "billions and billions" of bullying victims who aren't going to cash in. Because like so many trendy "problems" and the people who promote them, he's latched on to "bullying" as a threat to the republic. And we better do something, right now, about it. Horseradish.
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Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
No, I identified with the dead kid, who didn't have to listen to your libtard b*tching any more. And since I don't treat your "educated assumptions" like holy writ, there must be something wrong with me. Yeah, that's it, Old Pio's really a bully because he disagrees with me. Typical libtard smear.
I don't recall, were you one of the libtards who wanted to blame Michele Bachmann, personally, for the suicides of some gay teenagers in the Twin Cities? You may not have been one of them, but they posted here blaming her nonetheless. That's libtard "thinking" at its finest.
No, I identified with the dead kid, who didn't have to listen to your libtard b*tching any more. And since I don't treat your "educated assumptions" like holy writ, there must be something wrong with me. Yeah, that's it, Old Pio's really a bully because he disagrees with me. Typical libtard smear.
I don't recall, were you one of the libtards who wanted to blame Michele Bachmann, personally, for the suicides of some gay teenagers in the Twin Cities? You may not have been one of them, but they posted here blaming her nonetheless. That's libtard "thinking" at its finest.
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Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us
Yes. Although in your world, apparantly, conservative and whack job are one and the same. Interesting that your delicate sensitivities are tuned to my smearing but not his. That, too, is typical. Libtards give great lip service to freedom of speech but are all to frequently at the head of the line wanting too shut up people who disagree with them.
Yes. Although in your world, apparantly, conservative and whack job are one and the same. Interesting that your delicate sensitivities are tuned to my smearing but not his. That, too, is typical. Libtards give great lip service to freedom of speech but are all to frequently at the head of the line wanting too shut up people who disagree with them.
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