Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Funny thing is, if its such a local thing, why have two GOP Senators asked the dude to resign and Mittens is running away from the guy faster than he can place money in an offshore tax shelter? Its cute how naive Bob is, but I'm guessing Repubicans are going to be answering for this one from now until election day. In fairness, and echoing a question asked to Dukakis in a debate long ago, I can see a VP debate playing out like this...

Congressman Ryan, you sponsored legislation that would make it a crime to abort a pregnancy as a result of rape. Say your wife is raped and beaten by an escaped criminal, and becomes pregnant as a result. Is it your position that she should be forced by the government to have her attacker's child?"

I mean, if you can ask questions like that of the hapless Duke, surely you can ask that of Ryan too, right? To not do so smacks of cowardice or bias.

This assumes, of course, that Biden isn't sitting there aimlessly picking his nose or scratching himself. We'll see.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Funny thing is, if its such a local thing, why have two GOP Senators asked the dude to resign and Mittens is running away from the guy faster than he can place money in an offshore tax shelter? Its cute how naive Bob is, but I'm guessing Repubicans are going to be answering for this one from now until election day. In fairness, and echoing a question asked to Dukakis in a debate long ago, I can see a VP debate playing out like this...

Congressman Ryan, you sponsored legislation that would make it a crime to abort a pregnancy as a result of rape. Say your wife is raped and beaten by an escaped criminal, and becomes pregnant as a result. Is it your position that she should be forced by the government to have her attacker's child?"

I mean, if you can ask questions like that of the hapless Duke, surely you can ask that of Ryan too, right? To not do so smacks of cowardice or bias.

I don't think Ryan would have any trouble answering that question "yes."

His wife, on the other hand...

My mother-in-law has an interesting theory about this Fall. She thinks the women from those fundy homes may tell their husbands they're voting GOP, and they may tell the exit pollsters they voted GOP, but in the safety of the ballot box it may be a different story.

It will be interesting to see whether the exit polls are significantly off this year.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

How are Akin and Ryan different Bob? Seems they're advocating the same thing, only Akin is being more clear about his reasoning behind the law he and Ryan co-sponsored.

That's one of the dumbest questions I've ever seen you ask. People hadn't even heard of Akin for the most part until this quote came up. Now you can't tell the difference between Akin and Ryan? If I took you seriously, I'd really be amazed. But, I know you just enjoy the trolling.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

I don't think Ryan would have any trouble answering that question "yes."

His wife, on the other hand...

My mother-in-law has an interesting theory about this Fall. She thinks the women from those fundy homes may tell their husbands they're voting GOP, and they may tell the exit pollsters they voted GOP, but in the safety of the ballot box it may be a different story.

It will be interesting to see whether the exit polls are significantly off this year.

Yeah, maybe we can have a replay of '04, when badly distorted exit poll data convinced libstains that Thurston Howell III had been elected president.

 

[Twitch Boy]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Rumblings coming in via Twitter that Akin is preparing to withdraw. National GOP has pulled their funding.

ETA: Buzzfeed link. Still a lot of people saying he's in, though.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Yeah, maybe we can have a replay of '04, when badly distorted exit poll data convinced libstains that Thurston Howell III had been elected president.

Polling at times will miss things wrong in either direction. To guess which way it'll go in a particular direction is highly speculative at best.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Polling at times will miss things wrong in either direction. To guess which way it'll go in a particular direction is highly speculative at best.

It's August. Everything we say is highly speculative.

Abortion has crept back into the national debate, and that means nastier and nastier statements from both sides. I think the real question is whether such an ugly tone depresses or increases turnout. I can imagine an election where only the radicals (on both sides) turn out and everybody in the middle is turned off. That would be sad.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

People hadn't even heard of Akin for the most part until this quote came up. Now you can't tell the difference between Akin and Ryan?

Bob, Rover was saying there is no practical difference in what they advocate. In each case rape is not an allowable circumstance for abortion.

As far as I can tell, that is a true statement.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Rumblings coming in via Twitter that Akin is preparing to withdraw. National GOP has pulled their funding.

ETA: Buzzfeed link. Still a lot of people saying he's in, though.

It would be bad news for Claire McCaskill if he were to drop out.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

It would be bad news for Claire McCaskill if he were to drop out.

I'm surprised she was losing in the first place; she's effective in a very Hillary way, and she's ruthless in a fashion that would make Dick Cheney flinch. I guess her optics are off for her constituency (Missouri has Kansas Disease when it comes to the Christian Right), but a lot of people think she could go a long way in national politics.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

I'm surprised she was losing in the first place, she's effective in a very Hillary way. I guess her optics are off for her constituency, but a lot of people think she could go a long way in national politics.

I'd vote for her. The problem she has in Missouri is Missouri has gone Tea Party Repub in a big way. It's clearly a Red State with no room for compromise.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Bob, Rover was saying there is no practical difference in what they advocate. In each case rape is not an allowable circumstance for abortion.

As far as I can tell, that is a true statement.

He said the they were the same, which is just so ridiculous, I'm surprised a more reasonable person like you is buying into Rover's partisan ramblings. Nice sleight of hand try though.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Bob, Rover was saying there is no practical difference in what they advocate. In each case rape is not an allowable circumstance for abortion.

As far as I can tell, that is a true statement.

I believe the "no exceptions" crowd does not represent the position of most pro-life people. So it would be a good idea politically to smear those folks with Akin's nonsense. Besides, we all know that abortions on the basis of "rape, incest, health of the mother" represent only a tiny fraction of the total.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

He said the they were the same, which is just so ridiculous, I'm surprised a more reasonable person like you is buying into Rover's partisan ramblings. Nice sleight of hand try though.

Don't be insulting. I argue fairly. I may not always be coherent, and I may not always think clearly, but I do not play games. Life's too short. (Life's probably too short to argue politics on the internet, but we all have our weaknesses.)

Akin's position (which is moronic) and Ryan's position (which is intellectually defensible) come down to the same thing for the rape victim. In that sense, which is pretty darn important, they are the same.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

I believe the "no exceptions" crowd does not represent the position of most pro-life people. So it would be a good idea politically to smear those folks with Akin's nonsense. Besides, we all know that abortions on the basis of "rape, incest, health of the mother" represent only a tiny fraction of the total.

How would we know since no one has the balls to stand up to the ever present base and say so? In the face of the base, the sun burns white hot and there are no gray areas - only black and white.

Until I hear a good amount step up and say different, I will assume that they (you) all (y'all ) feel the same way about abortion. No exceptions!

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Akin's position (which is moronic) and Ryan's position (which is intellectually defensible) come down to the same thing for the rape victim. In that sense, which is pretty darn important, they are the same.

Correct. The bottom line is they are exactly the same outcome for the rape victim. She has to carry the child to term.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Correct. The bottom line is they are exactly the same outcome for the rape victim. She has to carry the child to term.

And now it's the republican position.

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[Gurtholfin]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

And now it's the republican position.

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LOL


"Violated against her will."

Gotta love these people.

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

I appreciate Bob's George W Bush style obtuse reasoning, but this one is a doozy.

Rover said:

How are Akin and Ryan different Bob? Seems they're advocating the same thing, only Akin is being more clear about his reasoning behind the law he and Ryan co-sponsored.

So, what does Akin being well known previously have to do with anything? Do you often make up conversations with other people and then argue against them? You must be a lot of fun at parties.

As Kep and others have clearly stated to put you in your place, Ryan's take on abortion and Akin's take on abortion have no differences between them. That might be why they cosponsored a law on this matter, something you seem to not want to acknowledge. Their justification for such a Talibanesque piece of legislation may differ, as Akin is on record as saying any women who didn't enjoy the criminal act wouldn't get pregnant, while Ryan doesn't seem to have stated his reasons. However on this issue they are indistinquisable, a fact I expect to come up about a billion times this election season now that Mr Akin is indeed a household name.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

However on this issue they are indistinquisable, a fact I expect to come about a billion times this election season now that Mr Akin is indeed a household name.

It will also force many others to declare where they stand specifically on this.

To be honest, if you believe that abortion is morally or religiously wrong, how can there be an exception? It's either right or wrong and conservatives haven't shown a great ability to recognize nuance... in anything.

If given the chance, they will make it illegal in all instances. No question about it.