Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

[bronconick]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

So there's already some quiet pushback for him to drop out of the race and be replaced by the woman who finished 3rd in the primary (don't ask me why they're skipping #2) because this seat is one the Republicans need if they're going to have a senate majority. They have to decide by Tuesday if they're doing that, though.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

1. What doctors has he spoke to that have this view?
2. Anyone else ever misspeak like this before? I've flubbed a few words but that sounds like a pretty well thought out couple of sentences to pull out the "I misspoke" excuse.

And there's more.



http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/todd-akin-legitimate-rape.php

He didn't misspeak. He's lying.

Misspeaking is saying "17%" instead of "71%". It's introducing Paul Ryan as the "next president of the United States", it's talking about visiting 57 states in a campaign.

This isn't misspeaking. This is saying what you really think and feel, and then backtracking when the public reaction to your belief is incredibly negative.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Conservatism isn't a political movement. Its more of a state of mind, kinda like a religion. Todd Akin speaks for many, many of his fellow party members. He's not a fringe right person. He would be 30 years ago, but you can count freedom of choice Republicans in Congress on one hand and yet another one (Snowe) is heading for the exits. I'm not saying most Republicans feel this way. What I am saying is a very significant minority of them do.

I think this is a confusion of two kinds of "conservatism." There is certainly a radical conservatism in this (and every) country with fanatical beliefs. They are motivated by the same combination of primitive, tribal fears and aggressions as the Taliban. They have always been with every society and they always will be. They are humanity's id. "Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand."

Nobody knows how large a subset of the right that is, but I can't believe it's more than about 5%. There are people on the right who believe all sorts of silly things for all sorts of silly reasons, but few of them are part of that throwback group. There are plenty of Republican politicians who ape those views to get power. The odds are good that any official who went to college or has traveled and is still making those toxic statements is just playing to his audience.

There is a far larger group of conservatives who are part of the mainstream tradition of "standing athwart history and hollering "stop!" for a variety of good reasons. Sometimes they are even right.

The big problem with today's GOP is it tolerates and even encourages the fringe in the belief that once it takes power it can contain them. This is a mistake made all too often in the past. The Russian left thought they could do it in 1917 and the German right thought they could do it in 1933. Those are examples from history that any true conservative should not risk repeating.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Amazing how it's a huge story and everybody has a fit when a Republican candidate misspeaks. By comparison Joe Biden's slavery reference last week go a free pass, with most news stories being about how people overreacted, not in what Biden said. Same rubbush media bias. A shame, but expected.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Misspeaking is saying "17%" instead of "71%". It's introducing Paul Ryan as the "next president of the United States", it's talking about visiting 57 states in a campaign.

This isn't misspeaking. This is saying what you really think and feel, and then backtracking when the public reaction to your belief is incredibly negative.

Amazing how it's a huge story and everybody has a fit when a Republican candidate misspeaks. By comparison Joe Biden's slavery reference last week go a free pass, with most news stories being about how people overreacted, not in what Biden said. Same rubbush media bias. A shame, but expected.

So, you disagree with bronconick's definition?

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Misspeaking is saying "17%" instead of "71%". It's introducing Paul Ryan as the "next president of the United States", it's talking about visiting 57 states in a campaign.

This isn't misspeaking. This is saying what you really think and feel, and then backtracking when the public reaction to your belief is incredibly negative.

Exactly.

Kep not to beat a dead horse but we'll have to agree to disagree. I find "conservatives" to be far more radical on social policy than the 5% you site, and who knows who's right on this one. IMHO you're speaking of a conservatism that is shrinking every election cycle. If Akin was one incident I could be more comfortable with the 5% but I don't believe he is. Again the VP nominee himself will only accept abortions for health reasons, not in cases of rape or incest. This isn't an anomoly, its mainstream conservatism. I don't like the idea of this attitude being so prevalent amonst one of the two major parties governing the country, but my not liking it doesn't change its existence. A lot of the people that abhor GOP social policy have already become independents, so the base voters these people appeal to like this sort of thing.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

So, you disagree with bronconick's definition?

I didn't comment on bronconick's definition. My comments stand.

The hissy fits people are having is quite interesting ( and a little disturbing) though.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

I didn't comment on bronconick's definition. My comments stand.

Stand on what?

He clearly didn't misspeak, I think that's clearly been established here. And your comments on the Vice President indicate that you believe him to be a racist.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Stand on what?

He clearly didn't misspeak, I think that's clearly been established here. And your comments on the Vice President indicate that you believe him to be a racist.

My comments. As in my last post.

As for the vice president, I don't think he's a racist, but trying to take advantage of racial tensions with a comment like the putting back in chains comment to a black audience. But, hey, they guy has constantly misspoken for years and years and has always gotten pretty much a free pass, of course. A Republican says all the stupid stuff Biden does, and they'd be ground to dust.

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

I find it very interesting that a noteworthy conservative poster is passing up on commenting whether or not he disagrees with Akin, and instead seeks to turn the question onto Biden. Funny how you can site conservatives left and right using the terms "unshackled" etc and that's fine. Yet a Senate candidate has no problem with forcing rape victims to bear children and the attitude is la da dee da.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

My comments. As in my last post.

As for the vice president, I don't think he's a racist, but trying to take advantage of racial tensions with a comment like the putting back in chains comment to a black audience. But, hey, they guy has constantly misspoken for years and years and has always gotten pretty much a free pass, of course. A Republican says all the stupid stuff Biden does, and they'd be ground to dust.

Biden's comments got as much coverage as Akin's. Unfortunately for Akin he lied about misspeaking and the evidence and his record clearly show that. You need to pick another battle cause the media has covered both stories correctly.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

I find it very interesting that a noteworthy conservative poster is passing up on commenting whether or not he disagrees with Akin, and instead seeks to turn the question onto Biden. Funny how you can site conservatives left and right using the terms "unshackled" etc and that's fine. Yet a Senate candidate has no problem with forcing rape victims to bear children and the attitude is la da dee da.

Using the term unshackled in a generic sense is very different than telling a black audience your opposing candidate will put them back in chains. I don't expect you to acknowledge this given your level of partisanship, but it's true.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Biden's comments got as much coverage as Akin's. Unfortunately for Akin he lied about misspeaking and the evidence and his record clearly show that. You need to pick another battle cause the media has covered both stories correctly.

The coverage was very different for Biden, with most headlines playing down what he said and trying to give it context. Plus, he's the VP candidate, who should get more attention and scrutiny (which you admit he didn't, thank you) than a candidate lower down the ticket.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

The coverage was very different for Biden, with most headlines playing down what he said and trying to give it context. Plus, he's the VP candidate, who should get more attention and scrutiny (which you admit he didn't, thank you) than a candidate lower down the ticket.

I admitted nothing of the sort.

1. Both stories have been given the proper context.
2. Both stories have been given the proper scrutiny.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

I admitted nothing of the sort.

1. Both stories have been given the proper context.
2. Both stories have been given the proper scrutiny.

You said Biden got as much coverage. Maybe as much means a different thing to you.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

I find it very interesting that a noteworthy conservative poster is passing up on commenting whether or not he disagrees with Akin, and instead seeks to turn the question onto Biden. Funny how you can site conservatives left and right using the terms "unshackled" etc and that's fine. Yet a Senate candidate has no problem with forcing rape victims to bear children and the attitude is la da dee da.

He still won't comment on that.

I bet he doesn't watch FOX "news" either.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

Using the term unshackled in a generic sense is very different than telling a black audience your opposing candidate will put them back in chains.

That's fair. It was the equivalent of the frenzy Republican candidates create when they talk about Obama's religious "persecution" to fundamentalist crowds. You would agree with that, right?

What Biden said was indefensible derp. What the various Republicans say when they talk about the "secular humanist agenda" or the "gay agenda" or the "evolutionist agenda" is indefensible derp. Hopefully after the elections both sides will stop yammering and start compromising.

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

I see a attempt to 'even up the score' here out of both righty and lefty posters, which I find to be ridiculous. Slavery doesn't exist in the US to my knowledge, and has been outlawed some 150 years. Rape and a conception afterwards is a real life, current day issue, and anybody trying to give cover to Akin and his pals by playing the "equal weight" card needs to give some consideration to what they're doing. People wonder how politicians like Akin make it as far as they do (and in fact he could very well be elected to the Senate as I haven't seen any polls yet to show this has hurt him). They make it this far because they have willing sycophants using a dumb and lazy media to put forth a narrative whenever they do something like this that "everybody says dumb things - look at politician xyz".

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79887.html

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

And now the phrase "Legitimate Rape" has entered our political discussion.

This is the best Twitter response I've read to this guy:

To get your rapes notarized contact @toddakin at his DC Office. Voice: (202) 225-2561 or Fax: (202) 225-2563 #LegitimateRape

I feel sorry for his campaign staffers. Hopefully any women who worked for him have quit already.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012: Congressional and Gubernatorial

He still won't comment on that.

I bet he doesn't watch FOX "news" either.

I don't since we cancelled sattelite TV years ago.