Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

[mookie1995]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I'm wondering if it might be a college educated/non college educated thing? Given the clear decline in manufacturing in this country I could easily see how working class stiffs are far less upwardly mobile than in past decades or than places like Germany or Japan which are net exporters. I wouldn't expect the US to be able to compete in this category with most Asian nations.

???

i redistributed a lot of wealth last year to my roofer. he isn't college educated.
i also redistributed a bit of wealth to my mechanic last month. he is also not college educated.

unfortunately for them, they both built small businesses

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

(Karl Rove, today's WSJ). I'm no fan of Rove at all (to me any person who filters the world primarily through short-term political impact is suspect); still....at more than 12 fundraisers per month that's one every 2.5 days!

Set aside political affiliation and everything else for a moment and view this strictly from the viewpoint of a citizen: our President is spending about 1/3 of his waking time traveling to, attending, or traveling from fundraisers!

How about, you know, actually attending to the business of the country a bit more?

Who know, perhaps it might actually help people view you more favorably if you at least appeared to care about something more important than yourself!

"I've loved two women in my life. I lost one to cancer, and I lost the other because I was so busy trying to keep my job that I forgot to do my job." --Andrew Shepard, "The American President"

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

???

i redistributed a lot of wealth last year to my roofer. he isn't college educated.
i also redistributed a bit of wealth to my mechanic last month. he is also not college educated.

unfortunately for them, they both built small businesses

They didn't build those.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

That's a good point, but I don't think data with finer granularity would tell a different story. I recall from my grad student days in Sociology (when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, in the 80's) the consensus interpretation of social stratification metrics was that the US was exactly average among western industrialized nations in social mobility and had been for about 25 years. There was nothing special either positively or negatively about the US when it came to inter-generational mobility, but of course at that time median wealth relative to other nations was much higher, and income inequality was much lower, than it is today.

Opportunity was a significant driver for the US during the period 1850-1950. It has decreased significantly since then -- I don't think it's an accident that this coincides with both the closing of the frontier and the erection of the welfare state. The former removed our greatest advantage over other countries for ex nihil opportunities, and the latter removed the existential spur from remaining poor.

there you go. cause and effect. back then i could add examples. i grew up surrounded by steel mills. in the 80s they couldn't compete in the with the cost of production. my neighbors decided that they wouldn't work for less money. they struck, and continued to do so. they then 'retired' to their 2nd homes in florida. of course their kids who would have traditionally followed them into the mills were left holding the bag.

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Given its a slow news day, I'll address the nonsensical "too much time fundraising" argument. Since fundraisers generally aren't all day events, and several can be held on the same day, not sure what the problem is. Since Obama hasn't been parking money in secret offshore tax havens, and we know this because he's released his tax returns, he doesn't have a slush fund of ready cash like Mittens does to draw upon!

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Given its a slow news day, I'll address the nonsensical "too much time fundraising" argument. Since fundraisers generally aren't all day events, and several can be held on the same day, not sure what the problem is. Since Obama hasn't been parking money in secret offshore tax havens, and we know this because he's released his tax returns, he doesn't have a slush fund of ready cash like Mittens does to draw upon!

You know as well as I do that Obama is sending his cash back to Kenya. Part of being a Kenyan king and all!

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Not sure why Mittens keeps walking into these things, but again if people want to pay higher taxes to give Romney a tax break, be my guest. I am waiting for someone to trot out the "top tier tax rates stimulate the economy" argument though. I don't think even the knucks' bother to make that claim anymore.

What I find amazing is how huge the tax cut is for the rich. I'd be fine paying the higher taxes if they raised the rich proportionally.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

What I find amazing is how huge the tax cut is for the rich. I'd be fine paying the higher taxes if they raised the rich proportionally.

Why do you find this amazing?

It's the whole point of GOP politics for the last 10 years. Literally everything else is just an enabler to keep the top marginal rate low. That's their profit center.

$250k is roughly the 95th percentile, right there that huge jump is.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Why do you find this amazing?

It's the whole point of GOP politics for the last 10 years. Literally everything else is just an enabler to keep the top marginal rate low. That's their profit center.

$250k is roughly the 95th percentile, right there that huge jump is.

Has Grover responded to the Romney plan? It has to be putting him into a box.

 

[geezer]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

It's probably been covered in my absence, but chalk up foreign policy as another reason to not vote (R)omney.

So in comparing Romney’s foreign policy to Obama’s, a more accurate formulation might be: They’re the same, except when Romney’s is more reckless or mysterious. Not a good bumper sticker.

What does that leave us with in Romney's favor? Tax breaks for "dressage" competitors? He would seem to have a minuscule base, numerically (around 1% perhaps).

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

It's probably been covered in my absence, but chalk up foreign policy as another reason to not vote (R)omney.

What does that leave us with in Romney's favor? Tax breaks for "dressage" competitors? He would seem to have a minuscule base, numerically (around 1% perhaps).

Jon Stewart discussed that very thing last night. I think he nailed it.

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='512' height='340'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show with Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-august-1-2012/no-country-for-bold-men'>No Country for Bold Men</a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:512px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:417278' width='512' height='288' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com/'>Political Humor & Satire Blog</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow'>The Daily Show on Facebook</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

Stewart essentially asks ALL the questions I've been asking about Romney on this board.

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

You know as well as I do that Obama is sending his cash back to Kenya. Part of being a Kenyan king and all!

Those gold crowns and ivory thrones don't pay for themselves!

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

It's probably been covered in my absence, but chalk up foreign policy as another reason to not vote (R)omney.

What does that leave us with in Romney's favor? Tax breaks for "dressage" competitors? He would seem to have a minuscule base, numerically (around 1% perhaps).

He's running a "throwback" campaign, as in it harkens from a much earlier era in American politics - an era where people had big hair and wore flourescent clothes, Wham was topping the charts and opposing the Soviet Union was the most important duty a President had. He is in his mid 60's I believe so maybe he's having trouble moving away from his formative years, I don't know. As you say I'm not sure the Republican base is big enough in of itself to carry him to victory. I'm a bit surprised he's pimping tax cuts for the rich over deficit reduction.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2011/10/tracking-the-same-households-over-time-shows-significant-income-mobility/

Except you're ignoring that income mobility in the US is far less than most other industrialized nations. And we're a far less mobile society than we were back in the 50's and 60's. A person in the bottom quintile may move up to the next highest, but they are not likely to ever reach the top.

Hell, NPR had some right-wing think-tank wonk on yesterday, and even he said we aren't providing enough "equality of opportunity" (as opposed to "equality of outcomes," as he put it) to our citizens.

Income mobility between 1996 and 2005. A study done by the treasury department. If I ever find anything similar from the 50's or 60's I'll be sure to post for comparison.

- There was considerable income mobility of individuals in the U.S. economy during the 1996 through 2005 period as over half of taxpayers moved to a different income quintile over this period.
- Roughly half of taxpayers who began in the bottom income quintile in 1996 moved up to a higher income group by 2005.

Info from 2001 to 2007

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Those gold crowns and ivory thrones don't pay for themselves!

White slaves are a seller's market, too.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

White slaves are a seller's market, too.

this is why we should have kept the draft. this fool would have been killed in iraq 20 years ago.

 

[joecct]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Was the Chick Fil A eat in a stimulus without government intervention?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Was the Chick Fil A eat in a stimulus without government intervention?

Yah, Obama should have paid for my waffle fries at least! Where is my justice!

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

this is why we should have kept the draft. this fool would have been killed in iraq 20 years ago.

We only lost about a dozen people in actual combat in GW1, right?

But you're right, this guy would either have blown himself up or been fragged by his bunkmates.

Half the TP would have, come to think of it...

Bring back the draft. It keeps the poors in their place.

 

[XYZ]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

We only lost about a dozen people in actual combat in GW1, right?

But you're right, this guy would either have blown himself up or been fragged by his bunkmates.

Half the TP would have, come to think of it...

With that as a baseline metric, about 98% of hipsters would fall by the wayside as well. This idea may have much merit...