DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

[vizoroo]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

Great book idea. Is Armstrong still around? I wonder what some of the players of that era would remember and some of the other coaches that were around. Woog I bet knows or remembers a lot about it. Sonmor as well.

Armstrong is alive and living in Florida. At DU Hockey's 60th reunuion quite a number of the players from that era attended. And DU has a presence at the Snoopy Hockey Tournament in the summer.

 

[Larch]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

40 years old for sure. But a myth still dear to the hearts of many Gopher fans. Sorry if a little dose of reality intrudes on the hagiography. I don't know which is worse, the arrogance or the sense of entitlement.

I hate to do the whole blame thing, but you do realize it was a DU fan who brought it up, right? I'm sure there are a few Gopher fans who are still rubbed the wrong way by it, (Happy), but it happened so long ago, that it really doesn't concern the majority of modern day Gopher fans. It happened, it can't be changed. Let it go. We have much more concerning things these days, like will the Gophers score against DU this year. According to Blackheart that makes us optimistic though.

 

[DenverGoldJersey]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

to sum this up
40 years ago
Denver a bunch of cheaters
Minnesota a bunch of cowards

this weekend
Minnesota no goals
Denver Sweep

 

[dggoddard]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

I've heard second-hand that Woog gives a pretty funny account of things from Mariucci's point of view. Armstrong & Brooks were supposedly tight after the series resumed in the '70s.

Interesting that DU's program began to decline as Minnesota came to prominence in the 70's and Wisconsin joined the WCHA.

As DU's old Ice Arena fell into a state of disrepair so did the hockey program.

As Chancellor Ritchie was giving Gwozdecky a tour during the coaching search, Gwozdecky later described the building as a "dump." Supposedly Ritchie promised to build a new Arena.

Historically Gwozdecky has always considered Minnesota to be one of the most important series of the year, no doubt based on his Wisconsin background and a long time rivalry with Lucia going back to the CC days. Anyone who thinks that DU will be taking Minnesota lightly doesn't know the backstory.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

I've heard second-hand that Woog gives a pretty funny account of things from Mariucci's point of view. Armstrong & Brooks were supposedly tight after the series resumed in the '70s.

Interesting that DU's program began to decline as Minnesota came to prominence in the 70's and Wisconsin joined the WCHA.

As DU's old Ice Arena fell into a state of disrepair so did the hockey program.

As Chancellor Ritchie was giving Gwozdecky a tour during the coaching search, Gwozdecky later described the building as a "dump." Supposedly Ritchie promised to build a new Arena.

I've posted before (sorry for the heavy rotation) that Herb told me he and Murray always found time for a meal before each series in either city. And that Murray never wanted to talk hockey--instead grilling Herbie on how his business ventures were doing. And Herbie's kid played at DU.

Probably reason enough to put away the long knives. But I'm from an era where the Parson Weems version of events prevailed in the Twin Cities. And while I'm prepared to stipulate what a visionary Mariucci was as regards American hockey, we should not overlook the fact that his vision extended to scenes of his boys getting their faces smashed into the chicken wire (no glass in the DU Arena 'til '66) and his goalies getting vertigo from looking back over their shoulders. Now that Jimbo's gone I feel like it's my sacred duty to provide a little context to these discussions.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

Interesting that DU's program began to decline as Minnesota came to prominence in the 70's and Wisconsin joined the WCHA.

As DU's old Ice Arena fell into a state of disrepair so did the hockey program.

Other thoughts on DU's decline:

1) The University of Denver as a school was running out of money in the late 70s and all sports except hockey were downgraded from NCAA D-I to NAIA/DII status in 1979. Without money, every program falls apart. By the 1980s, the university was in financial chaos, and didn't recover from that until well into the 90s.

2) Murray Armstrong retired in 1976. DU was still #1 all year in '77 -78 (33-6-1) but was on NCAA probation due to the Murray vs the NCAA standoff over Canadian Junior players. They would have had a great shot to beat BU in 1978, but DU never got the chance to play in the NCAAs. Coaching after 1978 was mediocre - Ralph Backstom had one great year in 85-86 when he won the WCHA and went to the Frozen Four, but apart from that one year, DU was pretty mediocre. By the late '80s, Backstrom was operating a program in a death trap arena with no money, and the program hit total rock bottom in the early 90s after Backstrom left. Serratorre put some good things in place for a return to prominence, but it took a serious money infusion from Chancellor Ritchie in the 90s to right the ship when they brought Gwoz and Co. on board.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

Other thoughts on DU's decline:

1) The University of Denver as a school was running out of money in the late 70s and all sports except hockey were downgraded from NCAA D-I to NAIA/DII status in 1979. Without money, every program falls apart. By the 1980s, the university was in financial chaos, and didn't recover from that until well into the 90s.

2) Murray Armstrong retired in 1976. DU was still #1 all year in '77 -78 (33-6-1) but was on NCAA probation due to the Murray vs the NCAA standoff over Canadian Junior players. They would have had a great shot to beat BU in 1978, but DU never got the chance to play in the NCAAs. Coaching after 1978 was mediocre - Ralph Backstom had one great year in 85-86 when he won the WCHA and went to the Frozen Four, but apart from that one year, DU was pretty mediocre. By the late '80s, Backstrom was operating a program in a death trap arena with no money, and the program hit total rock bottom in the early 90s after Backstrom left. Serratorre put some good things in place for a return to prominence, but it took a serious money infusion from Chancellor Ritchie in the 90s to right the ship when they brought Gwoz and Co. on board.

Chancellor Maurice Mitchell had taken a principled stand against the NC$$. DU had done nothing wrong and he resented the implication that we had. In hindsight, perhaps it would have been better to cave in. In standing up to these bureaucratic hypocrits, we lost an excellent shot at a NC and accelerated the decline of the program.

And don't forget that '76 Olympics were to be in Denver. Centennial Halls and Towers were going to be the Olympic village and some of the competitions were going to be held in the Arena. Certainly some money would have been spent improving/modernizing the facility. Not quite the same as Magness, but a definite upgrade. That all went away. . .thanks to Gary Hart.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

And don't forget that '76 Olympics were to be in Denver. Centennial Halls and Towers were going to be the Olympic village and some of the competitions were going to be held in the Arena. Certainly some money would have been spent improving/modernizing the facility. Not quite the same as Magness, but a definite upgrade. That all went away. . .thanks to Gary Hart.

And Dick Lamm.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

BTW, it was not DU posters who started our little trip down memory lane. Puck Swami offered a historic analysis of DU's best performances in 4-game series against MN and suggested that perhaps we might have had other good years during the boycott.

It was Happy (oh, the irony) who regurgitated the Kool aid version of what went on in those days. We have merely endeavored to provide a little context. Sort of like James Randi and Penn & Teller continuing their battles against fortune tellers and other frauds.

 

[du78]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

Other thoughts on DU's decline:

1) The University of Denver as a school was running out of money in the late 70s and all sports except hockey were downgraded from NCAA D-I to NAIA/DII status in 1979. Without money, every program falls apart. By the 1980s, the university was in financial chaos, and didn't recover from that until well into the 90s.

2) Murray Armstrong retired in 1976. DU was still #1 all year in '77 -78 (33-6-1) but was on NCAA probation due to the Murray vs the NCAA standoff over Canadian Junior players. They would have had a great shot to beat BU in 1978, but DU never got the chance to play in the NCAAs. Coaching after 1978 was mediocre - Ralph Backstom had one great year in 85-86 when he won the WCHA and went to the Frozen Four, but apart from that one year, DU was pretty mediocre. By the late '80s, Backstrom was operating a program in a death trap arena with no money, and the program hit total rock bottom in the early 90s after Backstrom left. Serratorre put some good things in place for a return to prominence, but it took a serious money infusion from Chancellor Ritchie in the 90s to right the ship when they brought Gwoz and Co. on board.

Murray actualy retired after the 1976/77 season and Marshall Johnston was his assistant who was elevated to head coach in 1977/78. Ralph became Marshall's assistant in 1977/78 and then succeeded him in 1981/82. Ralph was head coach at DU for 9 years and was able to have a winning record in 6 of those years with 1985/86 being the pinnacle. His other 5 winning seasons were with records just over .500. Only 3 times in the school's hsitory has DU not had double digit wins; 1949/50 (first season), 1990/91 and 1991/92, both under Serratore in his first 2 years. 1990/91 was the worst season in the school's history with a winning percentage of .184. Frank did get the team to a winning record in his 3rd season in 1992/93 but then the team fell back to a losing record the following year, Frank was let go and Gwoz came to the campus in 1994/95.

I still have my 1978 WCHA Champions watch and boy would it have been nice to have gotten an NCAA Championship ring that year.

 

[uwbadgers14]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

Murray actualy retired after the 1976/77 season and Marshall Johnston was his assistant who was elevated to head coach in 1977/78. Ralph became Marshall's assistant in 1977/78 and then succeeded him in 1981/82. Ralph was head coach at DU for 9 years and was able to have a winning record in 6 of those years with 1985/86 being the pinnacle. His other 5 winning seasons were with records just over .500. Only 3 times in the school's hsitory has DU not had double digit wins; 1949/50 (first season), 1990/91 and 1991/92, both under Serratore in his first 2 years. 1990/91 was the worst season in the school's history with a winning percentage of .184. Frank did get the team to a winning record in his 3rd season in 1992/93 but then the team fell back to a losing record the following year, Frank was let go and Gwoz came to the campus in 1994/95.

I still have my 1978 WCHA Champions watch and boy would it have been nice to have gotten an NCAA Championship ring that year.

can minn pull out 2 or 3 points and not be worthless this weekend???? who knows but somebody's gotta slow down DU, they are beatable too...

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

can minn pull out 2 or 3 points and not be worthless this weekend????

No, sorry, they can't.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

can minn pull out 2 or 3 points and not be worthless this weekend???? who knows but somebody's gotta slow down DU, they are beatable too...

DU is very beatable, as are the Gophers.

This is the time of the season when teams tighten up and a bounce or two often decides things. Both Minnesota and DU are both offensively challenged, but DU has the better goaltending and are at home.

I see two close games - Denver should win both on paper, but I could certainly see Minnesota winning a game, likely on Saturday. DU has been really good on Fridays.

 

[du78]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

can minn pull out 2 or 3 points and not be worthless this weekend???? who knows but somebody's gotta slow down DU, they are beatable too...

DU has 5 home games and 3 road games left in the season. Arguably DU has gotten through the toughest part of their schedule but they really need to get a nice run going into the playoffs. They have back-to-back home series against MN and MTU, a road series at Mankato and a home and home with CC. 8 and 0 is possible but I think 7 and 1 or 6 and 2 is more likely. If DU plays the way they can I don't see them losing any of the next 4 games at home. Given that they have never swept MN in a 4-game season series. That is why the games are played.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

Murray actualy retired after the 1976/77 season and Marshall Johnston was his assistant who was elevated to head coach in 1977/78. Ralph became Marshall's assistant in 1977/78 and then succeeded him in 1981/82. Ralph was head coach at DU for 9 years and was able to have a winning record in 6 of those years with 1985/86 being the pinnacle. His other 5 winning seasons were with records just over .500. Only 3 times in the school's hsitory has DU not had double digit wins; 1949/50 (first season), 1990/91 and 1991/92, both under Serratore in his first 2 years. 1990/91 was the worst season in the school's history with a winning percentage of .184. Frank did get the team to a winning record in his 3rd season in 1992/93 but then the team fell back to a losing record the following year, Frank was let go and Gwoz came to the campus in 1994/95.

I still have my 1978 WCHA Champions watch and boy would it have been nice to have gotten an NCAA Championship ring that year.

There were so many negative things going on in those days it's hard to fault Marshall, Ralph and Frank. It seemed like everything, and I do mean everything, was against the hockey program. Pritchard & Oyer, NC$$, '76 Olympics, new facilities for elite WCHA programs, Harry Otenbreit, Murray's retirement, growth of the game in America, near death of DU (cannot be over emphasized), Division II and others.

Sometimes I look back and wonder why or how we continued the program and how wonderful things are now compared to then. We're clearly in the middle of a second golden age of Pioneer hockey, for which we should all be grateful. That does not ameliorate the fact that, for a variety of reasons, we permitted the program to decline to the point of irrelevance. DU hockey was, for many seasons, just an exercise in nostalgia, "boy, did we used to be good." Things are vastly better now, and we all know who the responsible parties are. However, we should never lose sight of the fact that the kind of success we're enjoying these days isn't automatic, nor our right, and comes and continues only as a result of hard work.

To me, it starts with the right guy behind the bench. And we've got him. His handling of the Luckas Dora episode proves the point. Suspend one of your leading scorers on the eve of the most important game for DU since 1969. Then, when the team visits the White House, make sure the president of the United States mentions the kid. All is forgiven. Perfect.

Gwoz has carefully polished and restored the luster to the crown jewel of DU athletics, for which we will always have gratitude. And I'm optimistic that following the lead of guys like DG, Swami and DU 78 (and others) we'll guard that patrimony into the future. Like the JDL says: Never again!

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

There were so many negative things going on in those days it's hard to fault Marshall, Ralph and Frank. It seemed like everything, and I do mean everything, was against the hockey program. Pritchard & Oyer, NC$$, '76 Olympics, new facilities for elite WCHA programs, Harry Otenbreit, Murray's retirement, growth of the game in America, near death of DU (cannot be over emphasized), Division II and others.

Sometimes I look back and wonder why or how we continued the program and how wonderful things are now compared to then. We're clearly in the middle of a second golden age of Pioneer hockey, for which we should all be grateful. That does not ameliorate the fact that, for a variety of reasons, we permitted the program to decline to the point of irrelevance. DU hockey was, for many seasons, just an exercise in nostalgia, "boy, did we used to be good." Things are vastly better now, and we all know who the responsible parties are. However, we should never lose sight of the fact that the kind of success we're enjoying these days isn't automatic, nor our right, and comes and continues only as a result of hard work.

To me, it starts with the right guy behind the bench. And we've got him. His handling of the Luckas Dora episode proves the point. Suspend one of your leading scorers on the eve of the most important game for DU since 1969. Then, when the team visits the White House, make sure the president of the United States mentions the kid. All is forgiven. Perfect.

Gwoz has carefully polished and restored the luster to the crown jewel of DU athletics, for which we will always have gratitude. And I'm optimistic that following the lead of guys like DG, Swami and DU 78 (and others) we'll guard that patrimony into the future. Like the JDL says: Never again!

All of this is true, with the common denominator between success and failure, like most things in life, is a function of money behind the right people -- either not having enough of it (a big part of our lean years) and the major '90s allocation of resources under Ritchie. Without that $75 million for the new arena and the hundreds of thousands that went into top 5 coaching salaries to bring in Gwoz and his staff, there are no 2004 or 2005 titles. DU made the committment, and it bore fruit.

A big motivator in all of this also was provided by CC, whose mid 90s success under Don Lucia (after almost losing their program in the early 90s) helped light the fire under Ritchie to spend the money.

A third element in restoring DU is the advent of FSN, who enabled DU games to be seen on the dish, which is a crucial recruiting and exposure tool. Without DU's top 3 TV exposure, I think it would be very tough to build the program to where it is now.

 

[state of hockey]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

These threads are getting as predictable as the Minnesota-UND ones.

 

[du78]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

There were so many negative things going on in those days it's hard to fault Marshall, Ralph and Frank. It seemed like everything, and I do mean everything, was against the hockey program. Pritchard & Oyer, NC$$, '76 Olympics, new facilities for elite WCHA programs, Harry Otenbreit, Murray's retirement, growth of the game in America, near death of DU (cannot be over emphasized), Division II and others.

Sometimes I look back and wonder why or how we continued the program and how wonderful things are now compared to then. We're clearly in the middle of a second golden age of Pioneer hockey, for which we should all be grateful. That does not ameliorate the fact that, for a variety of reasons, we permitted the program to decline to the point of irrelevance. DU hockey was, for many seasons, just an exercise in nostalgia, "boy, did we used to be good." Things are vastly better now, and we all know who the responsible parties are. However, we should never lose sight of the fact that the kind of success we're enjoying these days isn't automatic, nor our right, and comes and continues only as a result of hard work.

To me, it starts with the right guy behind the bench. And we've got him. His handling of the Luckas Dora episode proves the point. Suspend one of your leading scorers on the eve of the most important game for DU since 1969. Then, when the team visits the White House, make sure the president of the United States mentions the kid. All is forgiven. Perfect.

Gwoz has carefully polished and restored the luster to the crown jewel of DU athletics, for which we will always have gratitude. And I'm optimistic that following the lead of guys like DG, Swami and DU 78 (and others) we'll guard that patrimony into the future. Like the JDL says: Never again!

Gwoz has definitely restored the luster to DU hockey and huge props have to go to Dan Ritchie for raising the $$ to re-build the campus under his watch and elevate the other sports programs. Skiing is back to its glory days again, the Lax program has one of the best coaches ever in the sport and a great future. The men's and women's b-ball teams are improving as well as many of the other sports such as soccer, golf, gymnastics, volleyball, etc. are playoff caliber and have enjoyed some NCAA tourney success.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

All of this is true, with the common denominator between success and failure, like most things in life, is a function of money behind the right people -- either not having enough of it (a big part of our lean years) and the major '90s allocation of resources under Ritchie. Without that $75 million for the new arena and the hundreds of thousands that went into top 5 coaching salaries to bring in Gwoz and his staff, there are no 2004 or 2005 titles. DU made the committment, and it bore fruit.

A big motivator in all of this also was provided by CC, whose mid 90s success under Don Lucia (after almost losing their program in the early 90s) helped light the fire under Ritchie to spend the money.

A third element in restoring DU is the advent of FSN, who enabled DU games to be seen on the dish, which is a crucial recruiting and exposure tool. Without DU's top 3 TV exposure, I think it would be very tough to build the program to where it is now.

Yep. Jeez, ain't we smart?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: DU vs UM 2/12-2/13 at Magness

Gwoz has definitely restored the luster to DU hockey and huge props have to go to Dan Ritchie for raising the $$ to re-build the campus under his watch and elevate the other sports programs. Skiing is back to it glory days again, the Lax program has one of the best coaches ever in the sport and a great future. The men's and women's b-ball teams are improving as well as many of the other sports such as soccer, golf, gymnastics, volleyball, etc. are playoff caliber and have enjoyed some NCAA tourney success.

No doubt about it: the freakin' glass is way more than half full. As Willi said: "Vinning IS funn."