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Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

From my guy at the winter meetings, he just heard in the lobby that Ian Kennedy's medical is holding up the trade. He has an anuerysm.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Billy Blanks said:
From my guy at the winter meetings, he just heard in the lobby that Ian Kennedy's medical is holding up the trade. He has an anuerysm.
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He had one. Last year. It's why he didn't pitch until late August.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

moe24 said:
But are they more interested then the Tigers are? I hope not.
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I imagine they'd have to be. We'd be selling really high with Verlander now. If they get an offer anywhere close to Texas offer for Johnson we need to jump all over that!
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

GreatLakerMohawk said:
He had one. Last year. It's why he didn't pitch until late August.
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Correct, I mispoke. Yes, he HAD one below his armpit last season. Apparently the D-Backs are just doing their due diligence. Everyone else has passed.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Billy Blanks said:
Correct, I mispoke. Yes, he HAD one below his armpit last season. Apparently the D-Backs are just doing their due diligence. Everyone else has passed.
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For what it's worth, he pitched rehab stints in the minors and got the September call up for the Yankees (surprisingly I might add) and appeared in a couple of games. I'd imagine he's good to go.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Deal is done and the press conferences will be coming shortly.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Billy Blanks said:
Fail.

He had the 2nd highest UZR among AL first basemen this past season.

Try again.
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UZR means nothing and is significantly flawed. Fail. Try again moron.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Terrierbyassociation said:
UZR means nothing and is significantly flawed. Fail. Try again moron.
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Actually it is the exact opposite. Don't get your panties all in a bunch just because I owned you. Now go back to your chicken coop.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Billy Blanks said:
Actually it is the exact opposite. Don't get your panties all in a bunch just because I owned you. Now go back to your chicken coop.
Click to expand...

Fielding metrics are a joke, flawed and inaccurate.

There, you're both being stupid.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Billy Blanks said:
I don't think DD/Chadd value the comp picks all that much.
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That is a ridiculous statement. No MLB GM is going to say, "you know what... thanks, but no thanks," to an extra draft pick at the end of the 1st round.

I think Polanco wasn't offered arbitration because the Tigers were afraid he would accept. The fact that they weren't willing to roll the dice on an extra year for Polanco at ~$8 million for the chance at 2 extra draft picks (I think Polanco was type A) tells me that the budget issues are very real, and very immediate.

I like Granderson. I'm sorry to see him go. He's going to hit 30+ HR with that short porch in RF at Yankee Stadium. Unfortunately, poor contracts handed out to Willis, Guillen, and Robertson led to this moment. (I won't say Bonderman was a bad contract, because I don't believe he'd had a history of injuries before the contract was offered, and I won't say Ordonez was a bad contract, because they wouldn't have made the '06 WS without offering it)

That said, I'm impressed with the haul the Tigers came away with. The other clubs knew that the Tigers had to sell, and yet the Tigers still came away with 2 terrific pitching prospects, a serviceable CF, and a solid LOOGY... and all 4 make the league minimum.

Are the Tigers a better team for it? Probably not... but they had to cut costs, and I think they did a pretty good job of getting value while also slashing some payroll. Once the remainder of the bad contracts are off of the books, they should have the cash necessary to sign Verlander.

Here are the larger contracts (I included Zumaya, even though I doubt he'll get much in arbitration due to injuries)... over $100 million this season, but probably closer to $60 million in 2011 if Ordonez's option isn't triggered.

2010:
$20 - Cabrera
$18 - Ordonez
$13 - Guillen
$12.5 - Bonderman
$12 - Willis
$10 - Robertson
$6.6 - Inge
2nd Arb - Verlander
2nd Arb - Zumaya

2011:
$20 - Cabrera
$15 - Ordonez (option, triggered if 135 games or 540 plate appearances in 2010, no buyout)
$13 - Guillen
3rd Arb - Verlander
3rd Arb - Zumaya

2012:
$21 - Cabrera
FA - Verlander
FA - Zumaya
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

3. The way I heard how the Granderson trade began was that Arizona was trying to get Edwin Jackson at the GM Meetings and was told Max Scherzer was too little of a return, but felt Scherzer and Daniel Schlereth was too much. So Diamondbacks GM Josh Byrnes' first call was to Cashman because he assumed Granderson fit the Yankees' needs so ideally, and that the Yanks had resources that Detroit wanted.

What the Tigers prioritized in this deal was getting youngsters with either no or very little service time (translation: inexpensive players years away from even arbitration), but players ready to play in the majors in 2010 (translation: No A-ball players).

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/hardball/up_halladay_joba_and_kennedy_v0XQ27RUmcLRpk6hxOpThL
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

One touch that I find interesting about the deal is the timing. In 2011, the Tigers are going to have a lot of bad money off the books, some of the young guys picked up in this deal are hopefully going to be blossoming, the economy might be a little better and maybe most importantly, Joe Mauer may very well be out of the division.

I don't think they're going to be terrible this year, probably about .500 (the pitching is too good for them to lose more than 90 games), but they very well may be poised to strike right when the rest of the division has gotten even worse.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

3W said:
One touch that I find interesting about the deal is the timing. In 2011, the Tigers are going to have a lot of bad money off the books, some of the young guys picked up in this deal are hopefully going to be blossoming, the economy might be a little better and maybe most importantly, Joe Mauer may very well be out of the division.

I don't think they're going to be terrible this year, probably about .500 (the pitching is too good for them to lose more than 90 games), but they very well may be poised to strike right when the rest of the division has gotten even worse.
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That's trading salary and proven commodity for potential. Seen this before and honestly can't expect the Tiger fans to buy this again. If it wasn't for the excessive contracts, the Tigers would have been able to use the Red Wing model and move a few components here or there and nurture young talent into the lineup. (I know that the two economic models are different, but in a way Holland has gotten himself into the same pickle with the cap. The difference is, you don't see them selling Datsyuk and Zetterberg for a kid fresh out of the OHL, because their talent was so ridiculous they weren't gonna keep it all, anyway. Plus, the talent they did extend LTC's to are productive.)

2012 is a long time to ask fans to wait for being competitive, again. Go ahead and pencil the lineup as it stands right now, not including the rumor dream trade of Pierre for Guillen. You have a lineup of AAA players, and guys that can't hit their weight. Toss in Cabrera, who won't have the protection as in previous years, and he may not be as productive. No lead off hitter. Two rookies that are starting and have zero MLB experience. A guy coming off of two knee surgeries that couldn't bat .250 before. Corner outfielders that can't run and field anymore. A .220 SS and catcher.

Good luck.

Unless Verlander and Porcello can keep their opponents under 2 runs per game, they will lose games that they were able to win last season. They trade a starting pitcher that game them almost 200 innings. The back side of the rotation is a question mark. I'll wager that this team won't win 70 games next year, even if the pitchers they obtained pan out.

This will be Leyland's waterloo in Detroit.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

I'll bet you a pitcher of beer that they top 70 wins next season. I'll concede you Chicago and the Twins for the time being, but the bottom half of this division is pitiful. Kansas City has no pitching outside of Grienke. I don't expect Cleveland to be much better. They've got Sizemore and little else.

Assuming Scherzer can deliver a competent season, the Tigers have a nice 1-2-3 in the rotation, something those other two teams simply cannot compete with night in and night out. Gerald Laird, by the end of the season, will not be the starting catcher as Alex Avila moves into that role. It'll be hard for the Tigers not to win 70 in this division.
 
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Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

As for Edwin Jackson, the more I think about this, the more I think that there's something wrong with him, maybe not physically, but somewhere else. Anyone else find it peculiar that someone as young as he is, with as much talent (and now production) as he has, is now moving on to his 4th organization, and his third in three years? Somebody knows something we don't, and it's not just Dombrowski, either. Something doesn't appear to be right, but I can't quite put my finger on it.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Hammer said:
I'll bet you a pitcher of beer that they top 70 wins next season. I'll concede you Chicago and the Twins for the time being, but the bottom half of this division is pitiful. Kansas City has no pitching outside of Grienke. I don't expect Cleveland to be much better. They've got Sizemore and little else.

Assuming Scherzer can deliver a competent season, the Tigers have a nice 1-2-3 in the rotation, something those other two teams simply cannot compete with night in and night out. Gerald Laird, by the end of the season, will not be the starting catcher as Alex Avila moves into that role. It'll be hard for the Tigers not to win 70 in this division.
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You're on, as long as I get to choose the brand.

I don't doubt that the pitching may carry them, even with an unknown potential arm versus a proven commodity like Jackson. But this team got carried by starting pitching this past season with a semi- competent, all or nothing lineup, and they still only managed to win... 85 games?
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Gladly. Winner chooses the beer.
 
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