Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?
streaker, you and I are on opposite ends on Dombrowski:
Welcome back to the days when Toledo had more going for them then the parent club.
And just when was that? The mid-70's? That's the last time the Tiger farm system produced on a consistent basis. Other than that, the Mud Hens have been doing things with 4-A players like Mike Hessman, Virgil Vasquez, Chris Lambert and Brent Clevlen. About 5 years ago, when Fifth Third Field was being built, the Mud Hen management went to the Tigers and told them: "Look. We're building a new field here. Give us some talent to put in it, or we're going to find another major league team as an affiliate. We're tired of this".
Look. The Tigers drafted and produced homegrown talent for the Tigers very, very poorly for 24 years, between 1979 and 2003. You can count on two hands the
truly good players this franchise produced in those years:
Howard Johnson
John Smoltz (who was a .500 pitcher in AA when we traded him in 1987)
Travis Fryman
Matt Nokes (before the knee went POP)
Please notice that there is no pitching listed above that produced for Detroit. And do
NOT bring me Jeff Weaver, Tony Clark and Bobby Higginson. Their results spoke for themselves in the standings at the end of every year. The nucleus of the 1984 was drafted between 1974 and 1977 (Morris, Parrish, Whitaker, Trammell, Petry, Gibson).
When David Dombrowski took over in the fall of 2001, this team was in horrid shape from top to bottom. <strike>Curtis Granderson was almost ready, and that was it. </strike> There was nothing in this farm system that was remotely ready to help a team sniff .500. That's why, 6 games into the 2002 season, he broomed Phil Garner and Randy Smith, and after that draft, most of the scouting staff. He knew that he had to completely re-construct the farm system that had been barren since the mid-70's, when Jim Campbell began to get old.
In the meantime, he had to put butts in the seats someway. The 2003 team was an unavoidable disaster. That team was 5-7 free agents away from 60 wins. They were
bad. The next fall, he had no choice but to overpay for Pudge, and the next season, Magglio. There was no way on God's green earth that any free agent worth his salt was coming here without a major cash incentive. Selling the Tigers as a destination for free agents was like selling real estate next door to Chernobyl. People weren't touching this team with a 10-foot pole. It was either overpay, or they weren't coming. And then get ready for another 110+ loss season, and the Tigers likely would have looking at bankruptcy sometime in 2004. I'm not exaggerating. Remember the rumor about a team having problems making payroll? It was Detroit.
Remember: Pudge's signing led to Magglio's. Magglio's signing led to Kenny Rogers. Rogers' signing led partially to the 2006 World Series. After that it fell apart because the management before Dombrowski had not provided the necessary talent to fill in the gaps, and Dombrowski's prosects had not been given enough time to develop themselves.
Dombrowski's trades, for the most part, have fared quite well. Let's review:
Jurjjens for Renteria: Okay, he ****ed up there. Plain and simple. No argument from me.
Humberto Sanchez and two prospects for Sheffield: Sheffield was very productive until the shoulder fell apart. Sanchez never threw a pitch for the Yankees and wound up with Tommy John surgery. He's now out of baseball, and probably at the drive-thru line at Burger King as we speak. Big boy liked to eat. And the other two prospects have yet to sniff the majors, three years later. The Tigers got more production out of this deal.
Urbina for Polanco: Polanco gave us 4 1/2 very good seasons. Urbina sits in a Venezuelan prison, and will for the next decade. You tell me who got the better of this one.
Ramon Santiago and the other Juan Gonzalez for Carlos Guillen: Ramon Santiago went to Seattle, and wound up back here a year later along side Guillen. Anyone know what happened to the other Juan Gone? Me either.
Weaver for Bonderman, Pena, and I forget the other prospect 
: Weaver was a head case who was a bouncer on Jerry Springer and liked to fight at Hockeytown Cafe, along side Robert Fick. He's bounced around the league more than a basketball. Pena, like Weaver, underachieved in Detroit and is gone again. Bonderman was well on his way until his rib went missing, and the jury is still out on him. When we have our ruling on him, we'll also have the ruling on this trade.
Miller and Maybin for Willis and Cabrera: Cabrera has a home run title and two 100-RBI seasons. Willis can't find home plate without a map. Andrew Miller doesn't exactly know where the strike zone is, either. Cameron Maybin still can't crack the lineup everyday. Big IF here, but if Cabrera can put down the bottle, this one is a no-brainer as well.
Draft picks. All of the last five Tiger 1st round draft picks have seen major league service time within two years of signing with Detroit:
2004: Justin Verlander
2005: Andrew Miller
2006: Cameron Maybin
2007: Rick Porcello
2008: Ryan Perry
I don't think the 2009 pick will progress that fast, but the prior drafting will allow him more time.
Has Dombrowski made mistakes? Absolutely. The Willis contract was a colossal ****-up. Bonderman, at the time, was not. The pitching market was going bat**** at the time, and he was trying to lock up what appeared to be an up-and-coming starter and possible ace to what could have been below-market price. As for Robertson, this team wasn't in the position to take a chance on left-handed starting pitching leave the organization.
Dombrowski basically took over the American League version of the 1962 Mets. It takes a long time to properly build a franchise. He's made mistakes, but I'll take what he's done over 2/3 of the rest of the franchises.
EDIT: Curtis Granderson was a Dombrowski pick in the 3rd round of the '02 draft.
