What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Hammer said:
RUMOR MILL ALERT!!

Okay, this deal would be a little more palatable to me

I still don't like the idea of dealing Jackson, as I think replacing a pitcher of Jackson's calibre is going to be more expensive than paying Jackson himself. To me the biggest concern is this Scherzer kid's arm. Arizona shut him down at just over 170 innings this season. Precautionary to be sure, but I hope we do our due diligence here, better than we have in the past (looking towards Florida).

I suspect that there's too much smoke here for there not to be a fire. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Tigers do something today or tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Scherzer is the real deal so you guys would be making out huge there.

Austin Jackson is a prospect I love but I've been a bit nervous about the last year or so. His power numbers seemed to disappear last year and his strikeout numbers took off. The kid is a great talent but there's some things there that have made me nervous about the Yankees putting all their centerfield faith in the future on him. For what it's worth, every time he's been promoted in the organization he's used it to amp up his play so perhaps getting to start the year in the majors would do the trick for him.

The pitchers you'd get from the Yankees, Phil Coke you've likely seen enough of to know that he drives Yankees fans a little nuts as he's prone to giving up homers to both lefties and righties (he's a lefty). He's good but pretty inconsistent. The latest thing I've read says that Mike Dunn might get switched out for a different pitcher. Dunn is a lefty as well and has a good fastball and an OK slider and change. He's a converted outfielder that is a strikeout-type guy. He's also the arm that's the youngest piece of the pie here and could eventually (in a year or so) be a solid bullpen arm.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Regardless of who the players will be, the Tigers will get screwed. When was the last time the Yankees traded a prospect and he actually turned out to be any good, Milton? :D
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Terrierbyassociation said:
Regardless of who the players will be, the Tigers will get screwed. When was the last time the Yankees traded a prospect and he actually turned out to be any good, Milton? :D
Click to expand...

Christian Guzman did OK for the Twins for a while!
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

GreatLakerMohawk said:
Christian Guzman did OK for the Twins for a while!
Click to expand...

Wasn't he in the same trade?

It's amazing, the Yankees keep on trading prospects over the years and none of them pan out. Yet none of the MLB GMs can figure this out. :D
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Well, with the exception of the Renteria-for-Jurjjens trade, Dombrowski has done okay when it comes to trades himself. Placido Polanco gave us 5 very good seasons while Ugueth Urbina sits in a prison. Jeff Weaver turned into Jeremy Bonderman after Weaver and Bobby Fick went to Hockeytown Cafe and started dropping N-bombs and brawling, and being a bouncer on Jerry Springer. Even if we end up eating the rest of Willis' contract (likely at this point), I'm still happy with the that trade. AFAIC, I add it to the cost of Cabrera's contract. Cameron Maybin is still not an everyday starter in Florida, and Andrew Miller still can't find the strike zone consistently without a map and compass. It's the recent contract extensions that have done DD in.

You have to remember, when Dombrowski took over this team in the fall of 2001, he basically had two geese and a billygoat to work with, and not much else. There was nothing in the organization, short of Curtis Granderson. Phil Garner was our manager, Eric Munson was the next 3rd baseman until Chris Truby got done hitting .165. Damion Easley, Tony Clark, Bobby Higginson, Shane Halter and Gene Kingsale were projected to be everyday players, and Brandon Inge was our catcher on the way to hitting about .172 himself. Jason Johnson and Jeff Weaver were our top two starters, and Willie Blair had a better-than-average chance of being in the rotation.

That gives you a good idea of where we were at as an organization. Sure, he's messed up on contract extensions (Bonderman, Willis, Robertson), but he had no choice but to overpay for Pudge and Ordonez. Right now we're still paying the price for being so horrid in 2002-2003 with the Magglio deal. Otherwise, these guys weren't coming, and likely, the rest of the dominos would not have fallen into place that got us to the 2006 World Series and a ****ed good look at the postseason this past year.

It takes a very long time to build a winner properly through the farm system, and he had to have something to put on the field at Comerica Park while he was restocking a farm system so barren that it made the Mojave Desert look like a rain forest.
 
Last edited:
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Terrierbyassociation said:
Wasn't he in the same trade?

It's amazing, the Yankees keep on trading prospects over the years and none of them pan out. Yet none of the MLB GMs can figure this out. :D
Click to expand...

Milton was the prized piece of that Knoblauch deal, Guzman was the minor leaguer who was blocked by Derek Jeter.

For what it's worth, I do believe that the Yankees would be selling high on Jackson here and they're certainly giving up a lot more players as well as clearing space on the 40-man roster so as to not lose guys in the Rule V draft. The can't-touch guy in the organization is Jesus Montero and he wouldn't be worth giving up for Granderson.

Besides, it's not as if the Mets gave up anyone worthwhile for Santana. :D
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Rosenthal now says the Tigers will get two players from the Yankees. Ed Price is saying the Tigers and D-Backs are waiting for the Yankees to sign off on the deal and a decision will be down by 2pm.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Eh....I can live with this one, I suppose. I just hope that either Jackson or Casper Wells is ready to step in immediately in CF. Jackson doesn't have much power, and he needs to raise his walk totals and cut down on the K's.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Jon Heyman of SI.com says the Yankees will get OF Curtis Granderson, while Edwin Jackson and Ian Kennedy will end up with the D-Backs, and prospects Max Scherzer, Daniel Schlereth, Austin Jackson and Phil Coke go to the Tigers.
Click to expand...

Ouch. In order of awesomeness: Yankees.

Way down: Tigers (giving up a top centerfielder and a credible starter, getting back a ton of prospects)

Unbelievable and someone should take their GM out back and shoot his career in the face: D-Backs.
 
Last edited:
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Well, if Scherzer can step in and do a credible job, the Tigers will be fine. I'm more worried about the rotation than I am about the outfield. Someone else needs to step in and put up 170 innings and not get smoked like a carton of Marlboros.

By the end of next season we should be seeing one of Casper Wells, Ryan Strieby or Brandon Boesch arrive in Detroit's outfield, and the others shouldn't be too far behind, likely sometime in 2011.

Granderson's power has continued to develop very nicely, but he hits lefthanders about as well as Stevie Wonder reads the New York Times.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Hammer said:
Granderson's power has continued to develop very nicely, but he hits lefthanders about as well as Stevie Wonder reads the New York Times.
Click to expand...

Yankees hitting instructor Kevin Long will certainly have his work cut out for himself there. Still, Granderson is instantly a thousand times better than Cabrera and Gardner in center. Granderson will have enough protection in the lineup so that teams won't be changing pitchers just to take care of him.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

There's nothing inherently exciting about deliberately making a team that contended last year worse in the present because you can't get out of the red. Clearly, that's what's happening here, and it's very disappointing, but it's clear that trimming payroll is a motivating factor to get this deal done. Welcome back to the MLB have-nots.

If you break it down into two separate deals, that is, Jackson for Scherzer and Granderson for Coke and A. Jackson, it's at least half good. Either the DBacks know something we don't or they screwed themselves into trading their best young pitcher for a guy who was very ordinary after the break. So, it's not a complete loss.

But who you have up the middle is so huge and the Tigers are terrible there right now with a defensive catcher who can't hit, a second baseman with no ML experience, one of two shortstops that field well and can't hit, and who knows what in that huge center field out there.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Terrierbyassociation said:
Ouch. In order of awesomeness: Yankees.

Way down: Tigers (giving up a top centerfielder and a credible starter, getting back a ton of prospects)

Unbelievable and someone should take their GM out back and shoot his career in the face: D-Backs.
Click to expand...

I disagree. If the Tigers had to punt 2010 in order to make a more serious playoff run in 2011, consider me to be 100% on board. Once Guillen, Ordonez, Robertson, etc. are off the books, I expect Illitch to sign some very big bats. Mucho grande bats. The pitching will be in great shape, we'll just need enough offense to secure the W's.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

3W said:
There's nothing inherently exciting about deliberately making a team that contended last year worse in the present because you can't get out of the red. Clearly, that's what's happening here, and it's very disappointing, but it's clear that trimming payroll is a motivating factor to get this deal done. Welcome back to the MLB have-nots.

If you break it down into two separate deals, that is, Jackson for Scherzer and Granderson for Coke and A. Jackson, it's at least half good. Either the DBacks know something we don't or they screwed themselves into trading their best young pitcher for a guy who was very ordinary after the break. So, it's not a complete loss.

But who you have up the middle is so huge and the Tigers are terrible there right now with a defensive catcher who can't hit, a second baseman with no ML experience, one of two shortstops that field well and can't hit, and who knows what in that huge center field out there.
Click to expand...

Well, to be fair, I suspect that the defensive catcher who can't hit will see his time diminish drastically as 2010 progresses, and people realize that Alex Avila is ready. I hope...

Everett's re-signing at least averts a short-term disaster at short. The prospects aren't ready, and I'm starting to wonder whether the two big ones we were talking about in February (Iorg and Worth) ever will be.

As for Sizemore at 2B, I'd like to see what Plan B is if this kid is hitting .170 much past Easter.

In CF, either Jackson or Casper Wells has to be ready by the end of March, or we've got another big problem there.

Pitching staff: I still think we're one starter and at least one reliever short at the moment.

Wishful thinking? Probably. But I do agree that this is a bit of a fire sale.
 
Last edited:
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

3W said:
There's nothing inherently exciting about deliberately making a team that contended last year worse in the present because you can't get out of the red. Clearly, that's what's happening here, and it's very disappointing, but it's clear that trimming payroll is a motivating factor to get this deal done. Welcome back to the MLB have-nots.

If you break it down into two separate deals, that is, Jackson for Scherzer and Granderson for Coke and A. Jackson, it's at least half good. Either the DBacks know something we don't or they screwed themselves into trading their best young pitcher for a guy who was very ordinary after the break. So, it's not a complete loss.

But who you have up the middle is so huge and the Tigers are terrible there right now with a defensive catcher who can't hit, a second baseman with no ML experience, one of two shortstops that field well and can't hit, and who knows what in that huge center field out there.
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily see this as a payroll move. I see it simply as a way to make your team better with some tradable assets. If they didn't owe Nate and Willis money for 2010 I think this deal still gets made. They got younger and cheaper versions of players that could potentially be as good if not better than the guys they moved. But that by itself doesn't make it a move necessitated by bad contracts.


Well, if Scherzer pitches like last season with 1 year improvement, that gives us 3 young starters already in MLB. If Crosby or Oliver shows they are ready to enter the 2011 rotation and Turner progresses well, maybe it will be time to stir up some talks with FLA again for that SS they have there.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Apparently Seattle was interested in Gerald Laird earlier this afternoon.

Please.

Make this deal.

Give me two large french fries and you can have Gerald Laird.

Not two large orders of french fries, mind you. Two large french fries, period.

Or give us Jay Buhner. He doesn't figure into your outfield plans next season. We'll take him.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Hammer said:
Apparently Seattle was interested in Gerald Laird earlier this afternoon.

Please.

Make this deal.

Give me two large french fries and you can have Gerald Laird.

Not two large orders of french fries, mind you. Two large french fries, period.

Or give us Jay Buhner. He doesn't figure into your outfield plans next season. We'll take him.
Click to expand...

Laird will be dealt next.
We will go after Mauer HARD in '11.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

No we won't. Hopefully we'll have Alex Avila settled in. Don't be silly.

Jorge Posada will be pushing 39. The Yankees might open the vault.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Hammer said:
No we won't. Hopefully we'll have Alex Avila settled in. Don't be silly.

Jorge Posada will be pushing 39. The Yankees might open the vault.
Click to expand...

The Yankees will be in on Mauer because they know the Red Sox will be. Posada being older and it's still unsure if Jesus Montero (top prospect in the organization) is going to be able to stick at catcher or not, rest assured (horrified) that the Yankees will be in on all Mauer discussion if the Twins vomit away their future.
 
Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

Re: Detroit Tigers, 2009, Part III: How long does it take for Leyland to screw this up?

That's exactly where I was going until I saw that you were replying. Boston needs a catcher, too. I think Varitek was a teammate of Carl Yastrzemski, or at least it seems he's been around that long (for those of you whose bull**** meters are broken)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top