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Democratic Challengers 9: Can we climb this mountain? I don't know.

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Re: Democratic Challengers 9: Can we climb this mountain? I don't know.

trixR4kids said:
Not going to pretend I remember what Kep argued about Mayor Pete but I'm guessing his prediction was based on what would happen nationally rather than in Iowa.
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And he may end up being correct...but I bet Pete polls about the same everywhere. Not good enough to win but good enough to make a difference. (i.e. better than say Yang, Bloomberg and even Amy outside the Midwest) I think the vocal masses are drowning out a large segment of the populace and they seem to like him. Kepler seems to act like they dont exist, which is something I see a lot in this Party.

I dont think Iowa much matters in the grand scheme of things, never have. But I think if you take what unofan says at face value it is quite telling. Think of Pete in Iowa as the A's with Moneyball. They never won with the strategy (the Moneyball team lost to the Twins in the playoffs to prove that point!) but it showed the value of other metrics as a way to look at the game. Soon the big spenders adopted it and used to become dominant. Pete is showing there is more to the people than just the loud people shouting from the sides, and it is a large enough swath to not only help take the nomination but to beat Trump.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 9: Can we climb this mountain? I don't know.

Ideology by candidate:
Code: 
SANDERS       SOCIALIST
BIDEN         CENTRIST
WARREN        LIBERAL
BUTTIGIEG     CENTRIST
BLOOMBERG     RICH
KLOBUCHAR     CENTRIST
YANG          ADORABLE
STEYER        RICH
GABBARD       RUSSIAN
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 9: Can we climb this mountain? I don't know.

Handyman said:
Sure :) These are just based on arguments me and you have had...there could be more :)
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Fair enough. I'm repetitive; I'm sure I've said the same thing 20x at great and greater length.

1) Mayor Pete shows the center is stronger than you ever give it credit for. A few weeks ago we had a discussion about this and you tried to infer that right now the Far Left and Far Right are where the power is or is headed. (I will concede the Far Right obviously) If the Far Left is as powerful as you want to pretend it is, Mayor Pete would be screwed. If his base is strong...the Far Left is in some trouble.
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I'll concede that. When I say the middle doesn't exist what I have in mind is a hypothetical voter who could go Dem or GOP. I don't believe she exists anymore. I do think, though, that the Dems have the (old) Center and the Left. The difference is subtle but what I am trying to argue is that Moderates are now all Democrats. Further I argue that the Moderates are now the ones "stuck" with voting blue. We can go as far Left as we want and nobody will switch, but more nobody will stay home. When you're fighting Nazis you don't ask what the hemline of your candidate is.

2) The Democrats need diversity on the ticket. I guess technically the entire dais of Democrats proves that wrong...but Mayor Pete showing strong numbers makes him as good of a choice for Veep as any of the names you trot out in your (its not racist cause I am a Liberal) schtick. Veep Pete locks up the nom for anyone not named Biden.
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A 90% white state votes for white people and you think that proves something about POC? I am not following your reasoning.

3) The Midwest matters. This really chaps your *** :D Right now it seems a significant portion want someone who isnt frothing at the mouth over every issue or every tweet.
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You sound like a Bostonian. The difference between the flyovers and the coasts is the flyovers think the coasts despise them and the coasts just don't care. I have people from Kenya, Iraq, Britain, and Kansas on my trivia team. I don't care where anybody is from. Stop being insecure, I realize the Midwest is nothing special either way. It's just as full of self-pitying, self-absorbed sh-t as NYC, Cali, or other places people would want to live.

4) There are undecideds. The votes that came out for Pete are not all guaranteed to vote Biden or Bernie or Warren, hell they might not like a lot of them. They might also not much care for Trump. Pete is the guy that 10-15% can get behind because he isnt ridiculously crazy Left and his isnt a Nazi. He is just your average White Politician many of us grew up seeing in every election. He doesnt want Forever Wars, he doesnt want to give everything away for free, he doesnt want to restrict voting or Rights for people, and he doesnt want to get bogged down in a ****ing contest over the bonafides for everyone on every single issue. He is Milquetoast, he is the antithesis of everything that the last 4 years for both parties have been about. In most elections he would be looking for a soft landing spot already but right now he speaks to a percentage of the electorate that is sort of done with all of this. No more telling us why SOCIALISM!!1! is bad, or why a candidate sucks because she has friends on Wall Street...just your average guy who served in the military, got a very good education and can talk to people without getting in their face. People right now seem to miss that.
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I don't believe there are D/R undecideds. There are certainly undecided D's.

Look I dont think it lasts...I think South Carolina will be the beginning of the end for him. (unless the major players split all 4 of the early results in which case...GAME ON GRAB THE POPCORN SUPER TUESDAY JUST GOT FUN!) But I think Pete shows that while the majority are tribal, in truth there is a group of voters that are being sidelined with the shifting of the focus of the Parties to the fringes. (something I myself have little issue with) Now the True Believers will tell you they dont exist which is why you seem to discount them all the time but they are there and they are the difference. These arent the people you "drag along with you" they are the people you welcome with open arms and let them get to where you are on a track that is comfortable to them.
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I'm fine with Pete doing well. His economics is blah but it's certainly no worse than Clinton's and I think he won't be so craven as to give everything to the Plutes immediately upon inauguration. I think Pete's fiscal policy would be likely the same as Bam's. Sure beats NASDAP.

BTW I am using you for this because we discuss this here. You are a stand in for a lot of people on the Left who seem to forget you can be a Democrat and not think everything we want needs to happen on Day 1. it is ok for incremental change. (which I know you know you have argued it before) Right now it seems a large vocal segment of the Dems forget that. The Dems lost a lot of that area in the last decade and it can be won back. Those people I believe make up a lot of the Pete fans and they are showing you the road map to get them back.
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I'm fine with that. We're all trying to expand the field as much as possible. I should probably remember that trolling isn't always the best way to make a good thousandth impression. Anyway, if my milkshake brings all the reds to the yard, and yours brings all the conservadems, and trix' brings all the tweaked out paranoids, and Rover's brings all the fatuous Wendy's middle managers then we'll have a big enough turnout to shoot the GOP back to their reptilian Nazi base on the dark side of the Moon.
 
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Re: Democratic Challengers 9: Can we climb this mountain? I don't know.

Kepler said:
Ideology by candidate:
Code: 
SANDERS       SOCIALIST
BIDEN         CENTRIST
WARREN        LIBERAL
BUTTIGIEG     CENTRIST
BLOOMBERG     RICH
KLOBUCHAR     CENTRIST
YANG          ADORABLE
STEYER        RICH
GABBARD       RUSSIAN
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uh, this yang isn't a chick
 
Kepler said:
The more shade is thrown at Sanders and Warren the more you know they are genuinely worrying the Third Wayers. Now, why this would be is anybody's guess. It's almost as if they are starting to realize the gravy train may be derailing.
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Speaking of the gravy train, how is it that some tech start-up named Shadow comes out of nowhere and is suddenly granted contracts to compile vote tallies in Democratic primaries and caucuses?

Could it have something to do with the founders being former members of Hillary's 2016 campaign?

How 'bout the Dems quit throwing money at their own party's grifter class, and actually hire people capable of doing the job and winning elections?
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 9: Can we climb this mountain? I don't know.

rufus said:
Speaking of the gravy train, how is it that some tech start-up named Shadow comes out of nowhere and is suddenly granted contracts to compile vote tallies in Democratic primaries and caucuses?

Could it have something to do with the founders being former members of Hillary's 2016 campaign?

How 'bout the Dems quit throwing money at their own party's grifter class, and actually hire people capable of doing the job and winning elections?
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ITS A CONSPIRACY!!! Good thing it overshadowed Sanders' loss in Iowa, a contest he was widely expected to win...
 
Rover said:
ITS A CONSPIRACY!!! Good thing it overshadowed Sanders' loss in Iowa, a contest he was widely expected to win...
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Just because someone is pointing out something fishy doesn’t automatically mean they think it’s a conspiracy.
 
Drew S. said:
Have many of you gone to political events? I live fairly close to NH and am going to try to make a few in the next week. Are they worth going to?
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I had the day off during NH's primary what, 2004 when Dean was running? Decided to head down to Manchester where there was some spot where everyone was gonna be, pretty much heart of downtown. Saw Tucker Carlson in a small restaurant(as dooshy in real life as on tv), saw Bob Novak get heckled and almost punched out walking down the street for outing Valerie Plame, few other network bigs and politicians, can't remember who all now. Went to a Dean event out at SNHU after the polls closed. My sis-in-law said they saw me on tv walking around the arena.

Also went down to Boston when they were holding the Repub convention there. The Garden was chained off to us mere mortals. Did say hi to Chris Matthews as he was smoking a stogie in Fanuil Hall. Said it was a long way from the old smoke-filled newsrooms of old.

Fun experiences.
 
Rover said:
ITS A CONSPIRACY!!! Good thing it overshadowed Sanders' loss in Iowa, a contest he was widely expected to win...
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Not necessarily a conspiracy. Just business as usual, the powers that be funnelling that sweetcampaign cash to their friends and family and members of the established elites.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 9: Can we climb this mountain? I don't know.

Jimjamesak said:
Just because someone is pointing out something fishy doesn’t automatically mean they think it’s a conspiracy.
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I wouldn't call it "fishy." I don't think it's a conspiracy to muddy the results or cover up a Sanders win.

But rufus' comment is right on. Stop farming these projects out to the staffers and nieces of DNC power brokers and start hiring competent professionals. FFS, the job the app had to do was simple compared to POS credit checking or any of a hundred similar tasks. And they had FOUR F-CKING YEARS to code, deploy, and test it properly. That's not even allowing for the fact that there are probably COTS products that start out 98% of the way there.
 
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Re: Democratic Challengers 9: Can we climb this mountain? I don't know.

I'm all for hiring the best people, but one would think political operatives would have some involvement in the development of an app to tally results.

But I'll ask again, just so I have this straight....THESE are the same people who managed to screw Bernie out of the nomination last time? This is who he got outsmarted by? :eek:
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 9: Can we climb this mountain? I don't know.

Rover said:
I'm all for hiring the best people, but one would think political operatives would have some involvement in the development of an app to tally results.
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Users provide the requirements.

Systems engineers design the application.

Developers code and look pretty.
 
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