Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

[Handyman]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Bernie doesn't rail again the rich, he rails against the super rich.

The people with $500M have been using the people with $5M as a human shield. They are very, very different cases and represent very, very different things about America.

The conflation of socialism with communism, and high taxes on the super wealthy with high taxes on everyone, is a cynical strategy employed by the super rich to continue bankrupting our country. Please stop falling for it, because:

1. It's been destroying the middle class -- YOU! -- for fifty years.
2. It's really obvious.
3. It's really, really obvious.

Please stop using my posts to get on your soapbox and pontificate when you know that isnt what I said. Or at least give me credit for an assist.

Re-read the post and this time assume I have an IQ over 20, have taken graduate level Poli-Sci classes and understand the fundamentals of the discussion. Oh and sprinkle in the fact that I am DEFENDING Bernie not ripping him. (outside of his appearance...he looks like an old man sending soup back at Carnegie Deli ) Bernie is barely a Socialist you have said it yourself. (hence my giving you credit) He does more than his share and wants to do more to make sure everyone is getting what they need. That doesnt mean he doesnt take as much as he can for himself, and I am literally saying there is zero wrong with it.

In fact, I would say the message Bernie should put out there (through intermediaries) is that he is the perfect example of what America is. You have the right to be as successful as you want but you still look out for everyone else and try to make sure they have everything they need. It doesnt make you a hypocrite (which is going to be a smear he gets as this gets uglier and uglier) it makes you living embodiment of what is great about this country.

It isnt about wealth transfer and it isnt about making sure everyone has equal share, it is about making sure everyone has equal access. Everyone gets the foundation they need, what they do with it is up to them.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

The amount of influence a billionaire has to potentially destroy democracy compared to a millionaire is pretty vast.

I mean we always knew rube gets his fill of right wing media somewhere

I am not saying otherwise. I really think you all missed the boat on what I was saying because this is taking a weird tangent seeing as I was posting to defend Bernie being a millionaire not mock him for it. He has every right to be rich and still call out those richer than him. (or as rich as him)

I thought it was an unfair comment towards ticap that he was defending the millionaire. Bernie being a millionaire is irrelevant. Being rich has nothing to do with any of this no one poor runs for President. People trying to use that against Bernie is obnoxious.

 

[Scarlet]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

And she wants it.

And if I'm a black voter, or a woman, who cares about identity, I look at Bernie's bad heart and think, "I am getting to the polls."

Abrams is great. If we have to sneak her past the Racist Sexist Moron Class with an old white beard, so be it. Her politics is impeccable and she's smarter than the entire Republican congressional caucus (I know, low bar).

And good luck attacking her. That woman has "bless your heart" down like any Atlanta debutante.

Plus my god the debate with Pence.

Would Mother allow him to share a stage with a woman?????

 

[Handyman]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

That's why he's going to go with Abrams. In addition to being black, female, and under 50 (Bernie absolutely must check two of those three boxes, whoever he picks), she shares his progressive worldview.

Yeah I gotta agree. She is now the most powerful person in the Party whichever candidate gets her is a lock and there is zero doubt in my mind she has her favorites. I would guess Bernie is the call she is waiting for. If Bernie can lock that up and make sure people know about it a Brokered Convention is DOA and you just took away the one thing Biden has. (Black Vote over 50)

Tomorrow is going to be bloodletting for all but 2-3 at best. Even though Bloomberg is going to stay around cause he has money to burn he wont get much. I think Warren is all but gone so it is Biden and Bernie and if Bernie takes California...well then it might just be all over but the shouting. Right then you leak your choices for Veep and watch the money and support flow in.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Please stop using my posts to get on your soapbox and pontificate when you know that isnt what I said. Or at least give me credit for an assist.

Re-read the post and this time assume I have an IQ over 20, have taken graduate level Poli-Sci classes and understand the fundamentals of the discussion. Oh and sprinkle in the fact that I am DEFENDING Bernie not ripping him. (outside of his appearance...he looks like an old man sending soup back at Carnegie Deli ) Bernie is barely a Socialist you have said it yourself. (hence my giving you credit) He does more than his share and wants to do more to make sure everyone is getting what they need. That doesnt mean he doesnt take as much as he can for himself, and I am literally saying there is zero wrong with it.

In fact, I would say the message Bernie should put out there (through intermediaries) is that he is the perfect example of what America is. You have the right to be as successful as you want but you still look out for everyone else and try to make sure they have everything they need. It doesnt make you a hypocrite (which is going to be a smear he gets as this gets uglier and uglier) it makes you living embodiment of what is great about this country.

It isnt about wealth transfer and it isnt about making sure everyone has equal share, it is about making sure everyone has equal access. Everyone gets the foundation they need, what they do with it is up to them.

I recognized your post was pro-Berrie. I wasn't attacking you. I was correcting one thing:

it just makes me laugh when he rails against the rich

He doesn't rail against the rich, for the reasons you just articulated so well.

And now I have to correct one other thing. In advance, I am not attacking you. I am taking issue with something you said which I think deserves clarification, just as you might do with my argument if you felt that would strengthen it. This isn't me vs you and somebody wins, it's you and I digging for the truth together; we succeed or fail together.

It isnt about wealth transfer

At the top and bottom margins, yes, it is. There is a wealth redistribution element to Bernie. There is an aspect where we take money from people who are insanely wealthy from financial interactions and give it directly to people who need it to make ends meet, or indirectly by building things (roads, hospitals, schools) for everyone to use.

That is wealth transfer. It is also civilization. It would be a wonderful human world if private charity were regular and substantial enough to do that without government. A non-coercive workers' paradise would be ideal. And maybe someday, if we teach people to care for each other rather than compete and stomp each other, we might even have a population that will do that without being made to. That was the old communist dream of "the withering away of the state." I can intellectually imagine it -- it's worked on a small, local scale in such things as Christian monastic communities and farm granges and industrial soviets. What else was Jesus saying other than "stop f-cking each other over, you as-sholes."? (#tldrgospel)

But, being a product of our current culture, I can only work with what we are, which is selfish and shortsighted and still largely ape-brained. So coercion at the very top is what's on offer. The same coercion where if you don't follow the speed limit you go to jail. Laws. The price of living with each other.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Yeah I gotta agree. She is now the most powerful person in the Party whichever candidate gets her is a lock and there is zero doubt in my mind she has her favorites. I would guess Bernie is the call she is waiting for. If Bernie can lock that up and make sure people know about it a Brokered Convention is DOA and you just took away the one thing Biden has. (Black Vote over 50)

Tomorrow is going to be bloodletting for all but 2-3 at best. Even though Bloomberg is going to stay around cause he has money to burn he wont get much. I think Warren is all but gone so it is Biden and Bernie and if Bernie takes California...well then it might just be all over but the shouting. Right then you leak your choices for Veep and watch the money and support flow in.

If Sanders is a competent politician (Narrator: Sanders is a competent politician) he already has open communication with Abrams. This is something they need to roll out together.

BTW I would not leak it. I'd finalize it and then thunder it from the heavens. Do it big. Abrams is the game changer than ensures Sanders wins the election. She buries Dump and the Nazis.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

If Sanders is a competent politician (Narrator: Sanders is a competent politician) he already has open communication with Abrams. This is something they need to roll out together.

BTW I would not leak it. I'd finalize it and then thunder it from the heavens. Do it big. Abrams is the game changer than ensures Sanders wins the election. She buries Dump and the Nazis.

I speak vaguely only cause I am not sure what the protocol is for announcing your Veep. I never paid enough attention to know how early they do it or if they usually announce 2-3 possibilities first. I would also assume he has been in contact with her for a while now (as things started to shift) and if she is as smart as I believe she is she said yes. she has to be itching to troll Pence on a stage come the general election

I think if Super Tuesday goes even above average for Bernie he should push ahead like the inevitable candidate and start letting it be known who is on board with his administration. I think that is what people are waiting to see. The rest of the candidates are knowns, but Bernie is a lot of rhetoric and bluster (not a knock!) and a lot of conjecture from people who are afraid of him. He can end all that with one swift motion. Show the type of people who should be in charge of watching over us. Abrams is a great start and then you get momentum rolling.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Please come back to planet earth....

 

[Kepler]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Please come back to planet earth....

There's a scene in an Asimov (I think) story where a young native of Saturn's moons is taking The Grand Tour of Earth to soak up history. At one point he goes to the NYSE. All the people are on the floor, screaming buys and sells, throwing little pieces of paper around. The boy turns to his guide and says, "what gives -- the market has been automated by computers for years?" The guide says these are the former traders who just couldn't adjust. So they come every day and do this and people tell them they are making trades, but everything they enter is disconnected from the real economy and just erased as soon as they put it in. But they go on year after year, and it seems to make them happy.

Change leaves us behind. God put a kill switch in our DNA so we clear off and leave the world to the next bunch of people who will in turn eventually become dinosaurs, and so on.

Feudalism ended.

Mercantilism ended.

Capitalism will end.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Not yet

 

[Rover]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Will you two get a room already?

Anyway moving on there's a rumor Mayor Pete will endorse Biden. Not sure on the timing.

https://politicalwire.com/2020/03/02/buttigieg-will-likely-endorse-biden/

 

[BassAle]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Amy should hold on in case some of the 70+ year old geezers start croaking from the boomer plague

 

[Kepler]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Not yet

"Hey Bob?"

"Yeah?"

"What was that?"

<img src="https://natgeoeducationblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/chicxulub-impact1.jpg?w=1200&h=768&crop=1" height=300>

 

[Rover]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Something for everyone in this view of Sanders' career:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elect...s-29-years-in-congress/ar-BB10CNVN?ocid=ientp

 

[psych]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

I speak vaguely only cause I am not sure what the protocol is for announcing your Veep. I never paid enough attention to know how early they do it or if they usually announce 2-3 possibilities first. I would also assume he has been in contact with her for a while now (as things started to shift) and if she is as smart as I believe she is she said yes. she has to be itching to troll Pence on a stage come the general election

I think if Super Tuesday goes even above average for Bernie he should push ahead like the inevitable candidate and start letting it be known who is on board with his administration. I think that is what people are waiting to see. The rest of the candidates are knowns, but Bernie is a lot of rhetoric and bluster (not a knock!) and a lot of conjecture from people who are afraid of him. He can end all that with one swift motion. Show the type of people who should be in charge of watching over us. Abrams is a great start and then you get momentum rolling.

Biden has said he will contest the Democratic nomination if no candidate receives a majority of the delegates, which is technically following party rules. I mean, I guess it would be ridiculous for him to say otherwise at this point, but if Sanders wins the most delegates on Super Tuesday, which fivethirtyeight projects him doing, and almost immediately afterward announced Stacey Abrams as his Veep, I assume the line of thinking is this would sway those superdelegates to switch their support from Biden to a Sanders/Abrams ticket? I haven't read enough to know that Abrams preferred Sanders over Biden, which could be common knowledge, and I'm simply out of the loop. I guess I am also confused by how much more upside there is for Abrams to publicly hitch her cart to the Sanders' horse now, than (apparent) risk in waiting for voting to end, before deciding whose ticket she wants to be on. She's progressive and I'm sure her policy positions align more with Sanders than Biden, but she's also a politician, and pragmatic, and wants to be POTUS someday. She could become POTUS off of either one of their tickets.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Would Mother allow him to share a stage with a woman?????

Black women don't count as human for them, so it should be OK.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Biden has said he will contest the Democratic nomination if no candidate receives a majority of the delegates, which is technically following party rules. I mean, I guess it would be ridiculous for him to say otherwise at this point, but if Sanders wins the most delegates on Super Tuesday, which fivethirtyeight projects him doing, and almost immediately afterward announced Stacey Abrams as his Veep, I assume the line of thinking is this would sway those superdelegates to switch their support from Biden to a Sanders/Abrams ticket? I haven't read enough to know that Abrams preferred Sanders over Biden, which could be common knowledge, and I'm simply out of the loop. I guess I am also confused by how much more upside there is for Abrams to publicly hitch her cart to the Sanders' horse now, than (apparent) risk in waiting for voting to end, before deciding whose ticket she wants to be on. She's progressive and I'm sure her policy positions align more with Sanders than Biden, but she's also a politician, and pragmatic, and wants to be POTUS someday. She could become POTUS off of either one of their tickets.

Yes, I think this summarizes it well.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

Her as Veep to Biden makes zero sense for her unless she wants to be a lesser Obama. She will have zero say in policy and her Progressive credentials take a hit as she would be the Veep for a Party Elite Centrist. No way she takes that job there are better spots for her.

For Bernie she may still have little say but she becomes part of the face of the changing party along with The Squad. She becomes the odds on fave to be the next candidate with the entire Progressive Wing ready to endorse on day 1.

Her power and influence is exponentially stronger with Bernie than Biden imho. She has a stronger future as well. Plus it puts the nail in coffin of the Clintonistas.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Demcratic Challengers 11: Saving the Republic one voter at a time!

I speak vaguely only cause I am not sure what the protocol is for announcing your Veep. I never paid enough attention to know how early they do it or if they usually announce 2-3 possibilities first.

It used to be there was no announcement until the nomination was formally granted (unless of course it was a re-election). Typically the press would "ferret out" a few likely candidates and discuss them. In actual fact these were leaks to test reception and knock out anybody who was immediate trouble.

That's the way it used to be. Now? Who the f-ck even knows anymore?

 

[psych]

Her as Veep to Biden makes zero sense for her unless she wants to be a lesser Obama. She will have zero say in policy and her Progressive credentials take a hit as she would be the Veep for a Party Elite Centrist. No way she takes that job there are better spots for her.

For Bernie she may still have little say but she becomes part of the face of the changing party along with The Squad. She becomes the odds on fave to be the next candidate with the entire Progressive Wing ready to endorse on day 1.

Her power and influence is exponentially stronger with Bernie than Biden imho. She has a stronger future as well. Plus it puts the nail in coffin of the Clintonistas.

Fair enough. I guess I’m never quite sure how much of a politician is pure, ruthless pragmatism (even if the public face is idealism, etc.), even someone like Stacy Abrams. I could see her thinking that even if she’s on Sanders ticket, they still lose to Trump in November. I readily concede she may not be thinking any such thing, and that the Sanders ticket truly is her best shot, and the time to strike is now. Either way, I find this s**t fascinating. Super Tuesday is going to be fun to watch.