Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

[Patman]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

oops

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

oops

Approves.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

Another one bites the dust. I'm sure the RNC is pleased he waited until after the primary.

 

[Rover]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

Interesting day! Lets take 'em one at at time.

1) I read the article, and to me Blumenthal's fate comes down to one question. Did he only say he was over there that one time, or is this a recurring pattern? Some of that article was ridiculous (an article somewhere where he wasn't the source said he was in Harvard's swim team - because clearly the Harvard swim team is the path to electoral office ), but he did say what he did at that one event. If he's done this more than once, he's toast. If not, we'll see.

2) I never understood why people who run as Mr Morals do stuff like this. How can they take themselves seriously? Were it that I lived in NYC in the 90's, I would have happily voted for Guiliani because he did a good job and never tried to be the perfect family values candidate. Its good of him to resign (in contrast to Ensign and Vitter) but sometimes I wonder how people can be such hypocrites.

 

[SPIN CONTROL]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

oops

Is this guy related to John Kerry by any chance?

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

Another one bites the dust. I'm sure the RNC is pleased he waited until after the primary.

Looks like they'll end up with a better candidate. Score.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

1) I read the article, and to me Blumenthal's fate comes down to one question. Did he only say he was over there that one time, or is this a recurring pattern? Some of that article was ridiculous (an article somewhere where he wasn't the source said he was in Harvard's swim team - because clearly the Harvard swim team is the path to electoral office ), but he did say what he did at that one event. If he's done this more than once, he's toast. If not, we'll see.

My god, it IS possible! You put together a salient paragraph!

(golf clap)

That deserves a fair response.

You be the judge. A trip down the timeline.

In 2003, he addressed a rally in Bridgeport, where about 100 military families gathered to express support for American troops overseas. “When we returned, we saw nothing like this,” Mr. Blumenthal said. “Let us do better by this generation of men and women.”…

The New Haven Register on July 20, 2006, described him as “a veteran of the Vietnam War,” and on April 6, 2007, said that the attorney general had “served in the Marines in Vietnam.” It does not appear that Mr. Blumenthal ever sought to correct those mistakes.

“We have learned something important since the days that I served in Vietnam,” Mr. Blumenthal said to the group gathered in Norwalk in March 2008. “And you exemplify it. Whatever we think about the war, whatever we call it — Afghanistan or Iraq — we owe our military men and women unconditional support.”

That's this one right here.

The Shelton Weekly reported on May 23, 2008, that Mr. Blumenthal “was met with applause when he spoke about his experience as a Marine sergeant in Vietnam.”

At a 2008 ceremony in front of the Veterans War Memorial Building in Shelton, he praised the audience for paying tribute to troops fighting abroad, noting that America had not always done so.

“I served during the Vietnam era,” he said. “I remember the taunts, the insults, sometimes even physical abuse.”

(That one's at least half right, he did serve DURING the Vietnam era... but I doubt he experienced the taunts, insults, or physical abuse he's describing.)

Mr. Blumenthal has made veterans’ issues a centerpiece of his public life and his Senate campaign, but even those who have worked closely with him have gotten the misimpression that he served in Vietnam. In an interview, Jean Risley, the chairwoman of the Connecticut Vietnam Veterans Memorial Inc., recalled listening to an emotional Mr. Blumenthal offering remarks at the dedication of the memorial. She remembered him describing the indignities that he and other veterans faced when they returned from Vietnam.

There's a reason why it's illegal (and can bring with it fines and even jail time) to claim that you've been awarded a medal that you did not earn. This isn't illegal, but it's basically the same type of thing.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

You be the judge. A trip down the timeline.

In all honesty, if those are the smoking gun quotes I don't see a big deal. Almost all of them are news sources paraphrasing his comments.

I assume this will not affect him -- people who hated him before will have a new reason to hate him, people who liked him before will give him a pass. The people who only see "D" or "R" are lead pipe anyway. It's almost impossible to actually change minds over something as tenuous as this.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

I assume this will not affect him -- people who hated him before will have a new reason to hate him, people who liked him before will give him a pass. The people who only see "D" or "R" are lead pipe anyway. It's almost impossible to actually change minds over something as tenuous as this.

I don't think so. I don't know if anyone really hated him before, and the people who liked him had trouble articulating why. He was kind of an enigma, a guy with real high approval ratings, who voters didn't know much about.

The voters of CT were ready to boot Dodd out of office, despite the nice "D" by his name. I certainly think Blumenthal is still the favorite, but considering that after a debate last month he was referred to by Democrats in the NYT as "Martha Coakley in pants", I certainly think this hurts his status as a virtual lock.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

In all honesty, if those are the smoking gun quotes I don't see a big deal. Almost all of them are news sources paraphrasing his comments.

Which he totally tripped over himself to set the record straight, right?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

Which he totally tripped over himself to set the record straight, right?

So if I can cherry pick a handful of incorrect quotes about someone it's their fault because they didn't spend all their time hunting down and correcting everything written about them? Come on, how do you know his staff hasn't corrected 98 mistakes and 2 got through?

This is proof of bad faith only if you're predisposed to believe he's dealing in bad faith, due to, say a "D" after the name (or an "R" after the name if your name is Rover).

I don't buy the "didn't correct the error" argument at all. I do think the way he explains the situation is fair game. If he pulls the "I apologize for anyone who my remarks may have hurt" to me that's double talk and suspect. If he says, "I have gone out of my way on many occasions to say I didn't go to Vietnam. This time I mis-spoke. Get over it," I'll be much more positive.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

As usual I put my devastating remarks in Nice Planet, instead of here. Let me just give you the Reader's Digest version: Blumenthal is a lying sack of brownies. His defense is marvelous: "I didn't lie about my service in Vietnam as often as Hilary Clinton lied about dodging sniper fire in Tuzla." Priceless. If you repeat a lie over and over again, it's not "misspeaking," it's lying. And on this issue he's evidently a liar by the clock.

And all of the weasling, waffling and spinning doesn't change the salient fact--that over a period of time he deliberately mislead people into believing he served in Vietnam, when he didn't. That may not disqualify him in the eyes of Democrats in his state or the reliable lefties here, but it sickens me.

Those of you old enough try to recall the pranging Dan Quayle took for having served in the National Guard. No lies, no exaggerations. Yet I'm pretty sure some of the same people who wanted Quayle's head will be out there defending Blumenthal for his lies. I don't care about deferments or national guard service, I do care about inflating your service into something it wasn't. I am a Vietnam ERA veteran, an important distinction almost all of us make in discussing our service.

And Kepler's argument--that there is some sort of virus infecting CT reporters over the years such that they all keep misunderstanding what Blumenthal says on this subject is, uh, not credible.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

As usual I put my devastating remarks in Nice Planet, instead of here. Let me just give you the Reader's Digest version: Blumenthal is a lying sack of brownies. His defense is marvelous: "I didn't lie about my service in Vietnam as often as Hilary Clinton lied about dodging sniper fire in Tuzla." Priceless. If you repeat a lie over and over again, it's not "misspeaking," it's lying. And on this issue he's evidently a liar by the clock.

And all of the weasling, waffling and spinning doesn't change the salient fact--that over a period of time he deliberately mislead people into believing he served in Vietnam, when he didn't. That may not disqualify him in the eyes of Democrats in his state or the reliable lefties here, but it sickens me.

Those of you old enough try to recall the pranging Dan Quayle took for having served in the National Guard. No lies, no exaggerations. Yet I'm pretty sure some of the same people who wanted Quayle's head will be out there defending Blumenthal for his lies. I don't care about deferments or national guard service, I do care about inflating your service into something it wasn't. I am a Vietnam ERA veteran, an important distinction almost all of us make in discussing our service.

And Kepler's argument--that there is some sort of virus infecting CT reporters over the years such that they all keep misunderstanding what Blumenthal says on this subject is, uh, not credible.

absolutely! its Vietnam ERA vet! and every vet knows that.

he also apparently said he was the captain of the Harvard swim team.
and he was not.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

absolutely! its Vietnam ERA vet! and every vet knows that.

he also apparently said he was the captain of the Harvard swim team.
and he was not.

On that same point, years ago I was asked if I wanted to join the Vietnam Vets of America. I told 'em I was an "era" vet, and they said that was okay. It's just wrong to claim service in SEA when you didn't go. Hundreds of thousands of people served honorably in our military in those days and never made 'nam.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

This is proof of bad faith only if you're predisposed to believe he's dealing in bad faith, due to, say a "D" after the name (or an "R" after the name if your name is Rover).

Oh, you and your strawmen. So funny.

Look up Bruce Caputo. He was a high-flying Republican congressman that was running against Daniel Patrick Moynihan in 1981. He had also been claiming that he was a Vietnam vet when in fact, he was not. He got what he deserved, too.

I don't buy the "didn't correct the error" argument at all. I do think the way he explains the situation is fair game. If he pulls the "I apologize for anyone who my remarks may have hurt" to me that's double talk and suspect. If he says, "I have gone out of my way on many occasions to say I didn't go to Vietnam. This time I mis-spoke. Get over it," I'll be much more positive.

“On a few occasions I have misspoken about my service and I regret that, and I will take full responsibility,” the Democratic Senate candidate told reporters. “But I will not allow anyone to take a few misplaced words and impugn my record of service to this country.”

Yup, that looks like the former, especially since he had to surround himself with veterans while he said it.

Don't take my word for it. Take it from ultra-right-wing nutcase Marc Ambinder:

Blumenthal is correct that no one can control the articles that are printed about him. But surely this is a misdirection. Ambitious politicians have teams of communications professionals devoted to shaping, manipulating and repairing their public images. It is undoubtedly clear that Blumenthal sought out the identity of a Vietnam veteran, wrapped himself in that cloak, and used it to perpetuate his power. Even if he did not intend to mislead voters about his service, it is incumbent upon him to make sure that he did not use his position to perpetuate a myth that enhanced said power. To me, that DOES make him responsible for being accurate about his service record and going out of his way to correct the perceptional. Military service is threshold-honorable. But after that threshold is crossed, people judge you differently if they know you actively sought a position in a service that put your life in harm’s way. Blumenthal did not.

 

[Patman]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

Oh, you and your strawmen. So funny.

Look up Bruce Caputo. He was a high-flying Republican congressman that was running against Daniel Patrick Moynihan in 1981. He had also been claiming that he was a Vietnam vet when in fact, he was not. He got what he deserved, too.

Yup, that looks like the former, especially since he had to surround himself with veterans while he said it.

Don't take my word for it. Take it from ultra-right-wing nutcase Marc Ambinder:

Bottom line is that he used the cloak of Vietnam service to enhance his political stature and position. Otherwise, why mention Vietnam. These are no accidents as three times is no accident. Notice such a political eagle as himself has either called for a retraction now or in the time they printed in the first place. These things are done because they know they can get away with saying it. People have been doing this for many years since Vietnam.

So, Kepler. Can he lie to you and it'll be OK?

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

So, Kepler. Can he lie to you and it'll be OK?

and be Attorney General too?

 

[Priceless]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

Another one bites the dust. I'm sure the RNC is pleased he waited until after the primary.

An evangelical Christian who championed "family values" had an affair? I'm shocked, SHOCKED!, I say.

But hey, give him some credit: at least he had an affair with a chick.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

From CNN

CNN projects that Rand Paul is the winner of Tuesday's Republican Senate primary election in Kentucky

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Death to the Incumbent!! Your guide to the 2010 primaries

From CNN

not big news there. they are also reporting gloomy at Specter's headquarters.