Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Now I'm watching the O'Donnel interview you mentioned. Within a minute of queuing up the interview, the guy has called for cutting Medicare in half.

But nope Scooby, no one's willing to talk about it.

I did not see that part. That's actually a good thing. Was that an interview with one guy, or the (4) tea partiers that I saw?

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

I did not see that part. That's actually a good thing. Was that an interview with one guy, or the (4) tea partiers that I saw?

It was still part of the 4 person panel. The way they were talking, it sounded like part two of a segment, but I couldn't find the first part.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Right, but if your point is "Tea Partiers won't cut anything"

I'm not sure that's the thesis. I think the TPers would like to cut things, but I think they are cagey enough to realize that if you announce your cuts before the election, you're dead. What I don't think they're cagey enough to realize is unless you know exactly what you're doing, you aren't going to cut anything -- you're just going to be ground up by politics.

I think TP will be like every other populist movement. Half the candidates will be opportunists looking for the hot horse to ride. Half will be sincere. The former half will desert as soon as they're in power, because the real goodies come from logrolling with the ever ascending stair of spending. Of the latter half, maybe half will be corrupted by the process, and the remaining lot will be nearly completely paralyzed by the stark fact of politics that unless you have something to trade, you have no leverage.

By their very nature, if they are serious, they have nothing to trade. And that sucks. But it's life. Ask the proponents of campaign finance reform.

 

[unofan]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

We have not gotten away from the amendment process. There have been 8 in the 77 years since that Dark Day For Conservatives when FDR took office. The previous 8 required 128 years.

Of course, the last Amendment dates back to the Bill of Rights. The story behind it is seriously one of my favorite legal stories out there. That guy had to have gotten any job he wanted.

Interviewer: "So, what types of things did you do in college? Student government, intramural teams, football player...anything like that?"
Dude: "Well, you know that whole 27th Amendment? Yeah, that's my work right there."

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

I'm not sure that's the thesis.

Excuse me.

But, the stuff the tea party wants cut is that same low number.

So, no quite the same thesis, but it amounts to the same thing.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

I'm not sure that's the thesis. I think the TPers would like to cut things, but I think they are cagey enough to realize that if you announce your cuts before the election, you're dead. What I don't think they're cagey enough to realize is unless you know exactly what you're doing, you aren't going to cut anything -- you're just going to be ground up by politics.

I think TP will be like every other populist movement. Half the candidates will be opportunists looking for the hot horse to ride. Half will be sincere. The former half will desert as soon as they're in power, because the real goodies come from logrolling with the ever ascending stair of spending. Of the latter half, maybe half will be corrupted by the process, and the remaining lot will be nearly completely paralyzed by the stark fact of politics that unless you have something to trade, you have no leverage.

By their very nature, if they are serious, they have nothing to trade. And that sucks. But it's life. Ask the proponents of campaign finance reform.

Very well stated.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

So, no quite the same thesis, but it amounts to the same thing.

No, this one's my bad. I didn't read down far enough and didn't realize you were responding to Scooby specifically. I thought you were responding to a charge in the abstract that the TPers aren't enumerating cuts because they don't really have any, and my response to that is they aren't enumerating cuts because that would be suicidal.

And while it's not great that we'll be judging them on the basis of hazy promises, that's how every change of regime works, and there'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...says_democrats_have_been_fixing_gop_problems/

The latest pronouncements from Senator Kerry. I'm guessing many liberals are cringing. "Americans are just too stupid and gullible to get it." "What is wrong with them, anyway?" This is precisely the attitude so many of us find typical of libs. And it's not calculated to win many converts, either. This is what John Kerry believes: he and people like him are better than the rest of us. While many politicians of both parties think that way, most of them are smart enough not to advertise it.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...says_democrats_have_been_fixing_gop_problems/

The latest pronouncements from Senator Kerry. I'm guessing many liberals are cringing. Americans are just too stupid and gullible to get it. What is wrong with them, anyway? This is precisely the attitude so many of us find typical of libs. And it's not calculated to win many converts, either. This is what John Kerry believes: he and people like him are better than the rest of us. While many politicians of both parties think that way, most of them are smart enough not to advertise it.

The best part is that it's 100% accurate, you just can't say it. It's like a lot of other things in this country. People don't want to hear the truth, they want to be lied to. It makes them feel better. It's all about their self-esteem.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Alaskan write-in candidates include "Lee Hamerski" and "Lisa M. Lackey"

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

The best part is that it's 100% accurate, you just can't say it. It's like a lot of other things in this country. People don't want to hear the truth, they want to be lied to. It makes them feel better. It's all about their self-esteem.

It's 100 percent accurate if you drink Dem Kool-Aid all day long. Yes, if only the Republicans had stepped aside and let every Democratic excess be legislated through. All would be well in America.

In a way he's right that the public isn't real clued in, but then he fails to look beyond his highly partisan outlook, condemning himself to being as out of touch as much of the public is. It's like the pot calling the kettle pink.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

"Americans are just too stupid and ...ation you're generalizing about liberals? ;)

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

It's 100 percent accurate if you drink Dem Kool-Aid all day long. Yes, if only the Republicans had stepped aside and let every Democratic excess be legislated through. All would be well in America.

In a way he's right that the public isn't real clued in, but then he fails to look beyond his highly partisan outlook, condemning himself to being as out of touch as much of the public is. It's like the pot calling the kettle pink.

I wasn't looking at the partisan part. Don't care about that at all. What I do care about is that no matter what side is in power the other sides main job appears to be blockaga instead of compromise. And it's getting worse over time. Mitch McConnell appears to be the poster child for this tactic. We've needed a comprehensive energy policy since Bush took office and we still do not have one.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

I wasn't looking at the partisan part. Don't care about that at all. What I do care about is that no matter what side is in power the other sides main job appears to be blockaga instead of compromise. And it's getting worse over time. Mitch McConnell appears to be the poster child for this tactic. We've needed a comprehensive energy policy since Bush took office and we still do not have one.

We've needed a comprehensive energy policy for a lot longer than that. But, of course, with some viewing that as including cap-and-trade, etc. I think the gap between what different partisans think should be in an energy policy is a lot wider than it used to be. And I think it's the case on a lot of issues that different partisan perspectives are a lot farther apart than 20 or 30 or 40 years ago. They really reflect very different values and world-views, without getting into the merits of any particular one.

 

[Rover]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

You do realize that in decrying generalization you're generalizing about liberals?

Great, his head just exploded. Now who's going to clean up that mess?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

We've needed a comprehensive energy policy for a lot longer than that. But, of course, with some viewing that as including cap-and-trade, etc. I think the gap between what different partisans think should be in an energy policy is a lot wider than it used to be. And I think it's the case on a lot of issues that different partisan perspectives are a lot farther apart than 20 or 30 or 40 years ago. They really reflect very different values and world-views, without getting into the merits of any particular one.

Doesn't change the fact that they could pass targeted legislation on what is agreed upon. But, they don't. That would give away the power to campagining about it by crying about it. Same with the abortion issue, the gay rights issue, the immigration issue, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Doesn't change the fact that they could pass targeted legislation on what is agreed upon. But, they don't. That would give away the power to campagining about it by crying about it. Same with the abortion issue, the gay rights issue, the immigration issue, etc. etc. etc.

I guess my problem is that you complain at the Republicans about this a lot more than the Dems, and the Dems are just as guilty of obstructing when it suits their purposes. I do think there are areas where targeted legislation could make progress on something that could be supported by both sides, but that will only happen when both sides decide the political calculus is good for them to work together. Obama came in talking about being bipartisan, and he made very little effort to be so, though the blame can go to both sides, as the Republicans weren't looking to be very bipartisan either. But, then again being bipartisan and passing stuff doesn't necessarily mean what's being done is good. Look at all the pork that has gone through over the years, greasing the skids on for both sides.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

I guess my problem is that you complain at the Republicans about this a lot more than the Dems, and the Dems are just as guilty of obstructing when it suits their purposes. I do think there are areas where targeted legislation could make progress on something that could be supported by both sides, but that will only happen when both sides decide the political calculus is good for them to work together. Obama came in talking about being bipartisan, and he made very little effort to be so, though the blame can go to both sides, as the Republicans weren't looking to be very bipartisan either. But, then again being bipartisan and passing stuff doesn't necessarily mean what's being done is good. Look at all the pork that has gone through over the years, greasing the skids on for both sides.

There's a very good reason why Obama wasn't bipartisan. Mitch McConnell wouldn't allow it. And there's the rub.

As for not being as hard on the Republicans I'll tell you why. When Clinton was in office he worked with them and we got things done and the country was in pretty good shape. When Bush took over the bipartisanship stopped in its tracks. The Republicans had power and they did nothing to fix anything with the budget, Health Care, Immigration, or Energy Policy. In fact their energy policy was Big Oil placation and that's about it.

So, I have a good reason for taking the tact that I do.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

There's a very good reason why Obama wasn't bipartisan. Mitch McConnell wouldn't allow it. And there's the rub.

As for not being as hard on the Republicans I'll tell you why. When Clinton was in office he worked with them and we got things done and the country was in pretty good shape. When Bush took over the bipartisanship stopped in its tracks. The Republicans had power and they did nothing to fix anything with the budget, Health Care, Immigration, or Energy Policy. In fact their energy policy was Big Oil placation and that's about it.

So, I have a good reason for taking the tact that I do.

So, for Clinton to work with the Republicans, the Republicans had to work with him also. By it's nature, bipartisanship requires both sides to work with the other. Clinton wasn't nearly as bipartisan in his first term, but he was smart enough to adjust and be bipartisan on some issues in his second term. Bush was a lot more bipartisan than a lot give him credit for. He work with Democrats to pass that new prescription drug program, then got clobbered for doing so. You definitely tilt left, so I wouldn't expect you to be as hard on the Dems. But I don't see how you can think they are more prone to bipartisanship than Republicans. Both do so when it serves their purposes and they don't when it doesn't.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Death to the Incumbent! Part Two: Now with more Death.

Can we stop whining about negative ads now?

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