COVID-19 - Part 2

[HockeyRef]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

Supplement to Post #269 on the issue of apportioning blame … let's not forget the WHO, who seem determined to continue to act as lapdogs for the Communist Chinese, even now …

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethb...-a-reporter-for-asking-about-taiwan-n2565899?

Taiwanese health officials alerted WHO about the Wuhan coronavirus' transmission between humans back in December but the organization failed to alert countries around the world.

And, on top of it all, China was generous enough to send faulty Wuhan coronavirus testing kits to the Czech Republic. Out of the hundreds of thousands of tests that were administered, roughly 80 percent provided inaccurate results.

The WHO dug their public relations crisis even deeper into the ground when Bruce Alyward, the Senior Advisor to Director General Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, refused to talk about Taiwan during an interview with RTHK. In fact, Alyward pretended the Skype call froze. Then he said he wanted to move on to a different question since China had already been discussed. When the reporter pressed him about Taiwan again, he hung up the call.

Makes you wonder why the embedded video hasn't gotten wider distribution ...

What a debacle this whole thing is...I don't pretend to have read/heard every single thing about China's obvious role in all of this, and, we must deal with it as it is now. Not saying I have 'abandoned' my leftist talking points about a few things either...that said, this will be an amazing thing to look back on in the years to come, and I hope, this spurs needed change on many fronts...

 

[Dutchman]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/confirmed-coronavirus-cases-almost-meaningless-123550415.html

“The numbers are almost meaningless,” says Steve Goodman, a professor of epidemiology at Stanford University. There’s a huge reservoir of people who have mild cases, and would not likely seek testing, he says. The rate of increase in positive results reflects a mixed-up combination of increased testing rates and the spread of the virus ... We will need more complete data, smarter data and more coordinated data to communicate something meaningful about the extent of Covid-19 in the United States, how many people are likely to die, which hospitals are likely to be swamped and whether drastic changes in the way Americans live will start to slow down the spread of the virus ...

"With a population of 1.5 billion people, China’s some 80,000 cases look like a rounding error", says Nigam Shah, an assistant professor of biomedical statistics at Stanford. And India’s claim of some 754 cases probably reflects a severe lack of tests — not that the disease there is still so rare. The positive tests say little about how many people are dying or will die since most cases are mild. Some other useful data could easily be collected at testing sites. "As doctors Farzad Mostashari and Ezekiel Emanuel pointed out last week in STATnews, health departments should tally not just positives but total tests, and record demographic and symptom information on all the test takers. Much of that isn’t collected or coordinated."

IMO we need USA longitudinal data:

The % false-positive/negative of the current coronavirus tests in the USA. ? Do we have rock solid tests?
People who have had coronavirus in the past but no longer have it. These people showed little to no symptoms in the past and who have built up antibodies. We need to know who these people are.
People who have been tested for coronavirus but found to be negative (10X)
People who have been tested for coronavirus and found to be positive (X)
People who were tested positive but recovering without ICU/Hospitalization. ?
People who were tested positive and have needed to be hospitalized. ?
People who have tested positive and died (.02X)

I don't see how we can create a decent model missing so much information.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

Chuck, he's quite the guy; having heard him speak many times at US First Robotics gigs (and at his home as mentioned). He's got tons of portraits of himself, and, 'wicked smart' guys like Einstein he's painted himself throughout his home. Not every day you walk into someone's house and they have a massive steam engine in the foyer... He has this massive hanger for his helis attached to his home; that's where the receptions are held. He invites some of his "close friends" namely, the US dept of patents, one year Henry K was there (not kidding), and of course, many of MY PERSONAL faves like Senator Jeanne Shaheen (whom I've spoken to teacher to teacher at these events) Eccentric as heck, he's a great visionary.

Not necessarily related to Kamen, but definitely related to your fave Senator (the one who doesn't live in Effingwoods BTW ) as noted above, and perhaps of general interest to the long-time USCHO readers … but once upon a time, when the kids were just kids, we enjoyed a private impromptu tour of then-Governor Shaheen's office, courtesy of a once well-known UNH poster who also happened to be one of the higher-ups in her campaign, and had a job in her administration afterwards. Not naming names, and for sure this former poster and myself were NOT on the same page politically … but we had a ton of fun on here together for the UNH cause, in those days when there was actually a legit debate between UNH and BC posters about which program was best.

He's since moved on to other Dem campaigns and candidates in other states, and I kind of keep track in a loose way on how he's doing, and where he's doing it - like you do with friends who've moved away. I have no idea (but I harbor some suspicions) as to whether he's ever come back to visit here under another name. IIRC he's a UNH alum, so I'm sure he's as distressed about the program's slide as most of us, and that's probably made him stepping back from prior activity levels easier. Heck - there were a few years in the late aughts/early teens where I was so busy with other things that I rarely posted here. It's not that I stopped caring, stopped seeing games, watching others, following on the radio or Internet, etc. It's just that other things tended to fill the void. And things that once were fun and seemed important (UNH vs. BC) were settled stories, with nothing really left to debate.

But he was (and I'm sure he still is) a great guy who was a wonderful friend in the real world, and a terrific ally to have on your "side" on this board. On a lot of the issues we're debating on this thread, my guess is he'd be more closely aligned with Darius, 'Watcher and yourself, HR. He'd be on here giving it to me with both barrels. But afterwards, we'd still be friends and he'd be as welcome in my home as we were in his boss' office that day over 20 years ago.

Isn't that the way it should be?

 

[walrus]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

Not necessarily related to Kamen, but definitely related to your fave Senator (the one who doesn't live in Effingwoods BTW ) as noted above, and perhaps of general interest to the long-time USCHO readers … but once upon a time, when the kids were just kids, we enjoyed a private impromptu tour of then-Governor Shaheen's office, courtesy of a once well-known UNH poster who also happened to be one of the higher-ups in her campaign, and had a job in her administration afterwards. Not naming names, and for sure this former poster and myself were NOT on the same page politically … but we had a ton of fun on here together for the UNH cause, in those days when there was actually a legit debate between UNH and BC posters about which program was best.

He's since moved on to other Dem campaigns and candidates in other states, and I kind of keep track in a loose way on how he's doing, and where he's doing it - like you do with friends who've moved away. I have no idea (but I harbor some suspicions) as to whether he's ever come back to visit here under another name. IIRC he's a UNH alum, so I'm sure he's as distressed about the program's slide as most of us, and that's probably made him stepping back from prior activity levels easier. Heck - there were a few years in the late aughts/early teens where I was so busy with other things that I rarely posted here. It's not that I stopped caring, stopped seeing games, watching others, following on the radio or Internet, etc. It's just that other things tended to fill the void. And things that once were fun and seemed important (UNH vs. BC) were settled stories, with nothing really left to debate.

But he was (and I'm sure he still is) a great guy who was a wonderful friend in the real world, and a terrific ally to have on your "side" on this board. On a lot of the issues we're debating on this thread, my guess is he'd be more closely aligned with Darius, 'Watcher and yourself, HR. He'd be on here giving it to me with both barrels. But afterwards, we'd still be friends and he'd be as welcome in my home as we were in his boss' office that day over 20 years ago.

Isn't that the way it should be?

Thats a blast from the past. When I hear Shaheens name it brings those days on here back

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

Thats a blast from the past. When I hear Shaheens name it brings those days on here back

Yeah, some fun times back in the day, eh Wally? Not much was off limits, skins were thicker, too.

Noticed that 'Watcher pulled his post … Peart's lyrics were definitely on point … bummer …

Maybe not quite prime-era Rush musically, but there's no such thing as "bad" Rush.

 

[acs64]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

Thanks Chuck for doing the hard and dirty work of digging out these facts over a long drawn out Covid timeline. Much appreciated

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

An odd turn, suddenly we're talking about the World Health Organization.

Help me out Chuck, what is the new Right wing talking point supposed to tell us?

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

Another addendum to post #279, and a supplement to post #2069, more on our "friends" at WHO, courtesy of Australian reporter Rita Panahi (embedded video included):

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethb...the-spread-of-the-wuhan-coronavirus-n2565898?

"I want to talk about China's culpability and conduct throughout the coronavirus crisis that began in Wuhan wet market. The Chinese Communist regime not only lied, destroyed evidence and allowed the virus to spread, but it arrested doctors who, back in December, tried to warn the world about what was happening in Wuhan," she explained. "Some of the whistleblowers arrested and accused of fabricating, disseminating, and spreading rumors have since died. Other domestic critics, from a property tycoon to video bloggers have vanished."

"China is not a regime that tolerates dissent," Panahi explained. "China's initial cover-up included destroying lab samples that established, in December, the cause of unexplained viral infections in the Hubei province. How many lives would have been saved if China had listened to experts instead of silencing them?"

A study carried out by the University of South Hampton (UK?) showed that China could have prevented 95 percent of Wuhan coronavirus infections "if it would have implemented tough measures just three weeks earlier." Instead of being proactive, the regime waited another month before taking action.

"What's just as shocking is the World Health Organization's complicity in this global pandemic," she said. "From the start, the WHO has unequivocally praised China's response and pushed its absurd narratives while ignoring the regime's dishonesty and recklessness."

Panahi reminded viewers that back in January, the WHO shared a tweet citing Chinese health official's who claimed there was no evidence the virus transmitted through human-to-human contact.

"[The WHO] refused to declare a pandemic until March 11th. And, as late as February, it was parroting China in criticizing travel restrictions," she said. "Don't forget that when (Australian Prime Minister) Scott Morrison and Donald Trump implemented travel bans against China in late January, they did so against WHO's advice."



Now for some potentially - potentially - encouraging news on the hydroxychloroquine front …

https://townhall.com/columnists/kev...ydroxychloroquine-help-is-on-the-way-n2565926

In this column’s space and much more liberally on my Twitter feed I have attempted to stay up-to-date on the rapidly developing reports of the effectiveness of Hydroxychloroquine. I’ve also dedicated a considerable percentage of my radio show over the last two weeks highlighting these developments.

It’s strange that I should need to.

… (omitted some potentially partisan stuff - you can check the link for full content/context)

The willingness by anyone of either political party to weaponize an actual solution or series of solutions to COVID-19 is utterly inhuman.

The author goes on to list several recent changes in position from prominent doctors and countries more willing to explore the use of hydroxychloroquine in combination with other medicine(s) as a treatment, which seem to signal a growing acceptance of further exploration of this potential remedy, while the important work on preventive measures continues exhaustively in labs all around the world.

I suspect we've got an interesting week coming at us … lots of discussion about short-term remedies like this, more discussion of finding the right times for re-opening up the country's economy, likely in stages, with or without geographic splits, and with lots of emotions and politics thrown in on top of it all. Continuing to hope to see light at the end of the tunnel - THEN we deal with the bad guys on the other side of the world who brought this down upon us all.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

The great John Prine's family reports that he is in critical condition with Covid-19...Make me an angel, that flies from Montgomery. Make me a poster...of an old rodeo. One of my favorite songs that Bonnie Raitt does...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3qr4xi0RTk

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">prayers up for the great John Prine <a href="https://t.co/EG5btJg3Sn">https://t.co/EG5btJg3Sn</a></p>— John Harwood (@JohnJHarwood) <a href="https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1244386106474475521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 29, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

An odd turn, suddenly we're talking about the World Health Organization.

Help me out Chuck, what is the new Right wing talking point supposed to tell us?

An odd turn indeed … about 90% of your original post, inclusive of "left-wing talking points" from the Washington Post and The Atlantic, with other hearsay, has disappeared. OK it's your editorial decision.

If you insist on apportioning any blame downstream of China and its enablers at WHO, I thought I was clear in saying there's a lot to go around. Both sides. I posted way more than so-called "talking points". Had I gone with "talking points", that timeline would have been three times as long as it is.

I didn't think it was all that complicated or controversial. China started it, the WHO enabled (and arguably is still enabling) them, US domestic politics were focused elsewhere (for what now look like very trivial reasons), and Trump was the first of two leaders who started and led with the travel ban to/from China. And whatever the level of the ban was, it was more than anyone else was doing, including Canada and the entirety of Europe (maybe excepting Germany - I don't know?). From that point forward, if you insist on throwing stones inside a glass house, then literally everyone is fair game.

One thing that surprised me in a favorable way was your citing of Tucker Carlson (Fox). I frankly wasn't aware, so if you want to re-post that, I'll leave that up to you.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

IIt's all Jina's fault!! I take no responsibility at all.

And his enablers rejoice.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">200,000 coronavirus deaths would be roughly four times the American death toll during the entire Vietnam War. Trump indicated today he plans to tout that figure as *an accomplishment* on the campaign trail. <a href="https://t.co/sfiZLP64Ir">https://t.co/sfiZLP64Ir</a></p>— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) <a href="https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1244431020084137988?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 30, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Somebody's got some 'splaining to do. How was this going to be just 15 people? Now, it's a positive that we could 'only lose 100 to 200k'? I'm sorry, please explain. Just read too that in the 'early days' of all of this, White House officials have been quoted to say 'we thought we could just ride it out'. That...is why we are here now. We need those rapid tests PRONTO! And don't get me going on the 'mask conspiracy'. Sorry, I like myself better when I'm NOT listening to this stuff. Over and out. Tomorrow is a big day greeting 80 new students. See ya 'round. And for the love of Pete, wash your hands and STAY HOME (if you can....)

 

[LTsatch]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

This guy does a nice job, a little crudely, but it gets the point across. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-...t4bEh-koxE58-DP0PcCmZdIB-BtFMVJsbTUwntJ4mmD4k

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

This guy does a nice job, a little crudely, but it gets the point across.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-...t4bEh-koxE58-DP0PcCmZdIB-BtFMVJsbTUwntJ4mmD4k

Great. Another lecture from an old hippie who has no understanding whatsoever for the loss of jobs, loss of careers, loss of small businesses, and yes … the unaccounted for loss of life from non-COVID-19 causes, with a rapid rise in suicide rates already being reported from various areas of the country. Yet we have pensioners like this jerk … lecturing real working people, slogging through the prime years of their earning lives, to "shut it down and take the hit" when they're not the target at-risk demographic … in turn saving the pensioners/retirees, who ARE the target at-risk demographic, while the latter group's pension/retirement checks go uninterrupted.

If that was me, being lucky enough to have gotten to the clubhouse of my career just in time, I'd like to think I'd be grateful and sympathetic to those not so fortunate, from a set of circumstances that neither the current nor past work forces had control over.

To call this guy (and others like him) an ingrate would be far too kind. FAR too kind …

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Branch Covidians packing into a Florida church today. <a href="https://t.co/gUvyHHHm8N">pic.twitter.com/gUvyHHHm8N</a></p>— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) <a href="https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/1244333481276182528?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 29, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

For every person doing their part and staying home to help end this nightmare, there are idiots that continue to gather in groups. As such the spread will continue more than it would otherwise, and people will keep dying, not getting paychecks, losing more jobs, etc.

 

[Dutchman]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

FDA issues emergency authorization of anti-malaria drug for coronavirus care
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/29/fda-emergency-authorization-anti-malaria-drug-155095

The Food and Drug Administration on Sunday (yesterday) issued an emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, decades-old malaria drugs ..... The agency allowed for the drugs to be "donated to the Strategic National Stockpile to be distributed and prescribed by doctors to hospitalized teen and adult patients with COVID-19, as appropriate, when a clinical trial is not available or feasible," HHS said in a statement, announcing that Sandoz donated 30 million doses of hydroxychloroquine to the stockpile and Bayer donated 1 million doses of chloroquine. FDA already has allowed New York state to test administering the medication to seriously ill patients, and some hospitals have added it to their treatment protocols. "Let's see how it works," Trump said at a press briefing on Sunday, referencing New York state's efforts. "It may. It may not."

A lot of folks, who are so blinded by their hatred of Trump, will be really disappointed if it works.

 

[e.cat]

This guy does a nice job, a little crudely, but it gets the point across. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-...t4bEh-koxE58-DP0PcCmZdIB-BtFMVJsbTUwntJ4mmD4k

This F bomb song bombs!

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

Some compelling insight confirming those paragons of transparency in totalitarian Communist China have likely been "fudging the numbers" just a wee bit (as in +2,000%) on their reported deaths …

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahb...its-much-higher-than-official-figure-n2565953

I know … you're shocked … just like I am …

Residents of Wuhan, China, even know the government is lying about the death toll from COVID-19, and they’ve figured out as much based on the number of urns funeral homes have been returned to families.

The city has seven large funeral homes, and each has been returning the cremated remains of approximately 500 people to their families every day, and yet, the official government figures put the total death count around 2,500.

…

Seven funeral homes currently serve Wuhan -- a huge conurbation of three cities: Hankou, Wuchang and Hanyang.

Social media users have been doing some basic math to figure out their daily capacity, while the news website Caixin.com reported that 5,000 urns had been delivered by a supplier to the Hankou Funeral Home in one day alone -- double the official number of deaths.

Some social media posts have estimated that all seven funeral homes in Wuhan are handing out 3,500 urns every day in total.

Funeral homes have informed families that they will try to complete cremations before the traditional grave-tending festival of Qing Ming on April 5, which would indicate a 12-day process beginning on March 23.

Such an estimate would mean that 42,000 urns would be given out during that time.

How the idiots running that country figured to slip this past a populace that - when allowed to take the test to get into American colleges - posts more perfect 800 math SAT scores per capita than anywhere else in the world … stark raving bonkers clueless.

Sorry to disappoint the China apologists out there, but this means the US is back down to a (very distant) #2. I think you guys suspected this anyway. It's basically turning out that COVID-19 is going to be China's "Chernobyl", with one key difference.

https://townhall.com/columnists/jos...virus-is-communist-chinas-chernobyl-n2565802?

 

[Darius]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

Great. Another lecture from an old hippie who has no understanding whatsoever for the loss of jobs, loss of careers, loss of small businesses, and yes … the unaccounted for loss of life from non-COVID-19 causes, with a rapid rise in suicide rates already being reported from various areas of the country. Yet we have pensioners like this jerk … lecturing real working people, slogging through the prime years of their earning lives, to "shut it down and take the hit" when they're not the target at-risk demographic … in turn saving the pensioners/retirees, who ARE the target at-risk demographic, while the latter group's pension/retirement checks go uninterrupted.

If that was me, being lucky enough to have gotten to the clubhouse of my career just in time, I'd like to think I'd be grateful and sympathetic to those not so fortunate, from a set of circumstances that neither the current nor past work forces had control over.

To call this guy (and others like him) an ingrate would be far too kind. FAR too kind …

Chuck "Grumpy" Murray.

 

[Darius]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

Some compelling insight confirming those paragons of transparency in totalitarian Communist China have likely been "fudging the numbers" just a wee bit (as in +2,000%) on their reported deaths …

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahb...its-much-higher-than-official-figure-n2565953

I know … you're shocked … just like I am …

Residents of Wuhan, China, even know the government is lying about the death toll from COVID-19, and they’ve figured out as much based on the number of urns funeral homes have been returned to families.

The city has seven large funeral homes, and each has been returning the cremated remains of approximately 500 people to their families every day, and yet, the official government figures put the total death count around 2,500.

…

Seven funeral homes currently serve Wuhan -- a huge conurbation of three cities: Hankou, Wuchang and Hanyang.

Social media users have been doing some basic math to figure out their daily capacity, while the news website Caixin.com reported that 5,000 urns had been delivered by a supplier to the Hankou Funeral Home in one day alone -- double the official number of deaths.

Some social media posts have estimated that all seven funeral homes in Wuhan are handing out 3,500 urns every day in total.

Funeral homes have informed families that they will try to complete cremations before the traditional grave-tending festival of Qing Ming on April 5, which would indicate a 12-day process beginning on March 23.

Such an estimate would mean that 42,000 urns would be given out during that time.

How the idiots running that country figured to slip this past a populace that - when allowed to take the test to get into American colleges - posts more perfect 800 math SAT scores per capita than anywhere else in the world … stark raving bonkers clueless.

Sorry to disappoint the China apologists out there, but this means the US is back down to a (very distant) #2. I think you guys suspected this anyway. It's basically turning out that COVID-19 is going to be China's "Chernobyl", with one key difference.

https://townhall.com/columnists/jos...virus-is-communist-chinas-chernobyl-n2565802?

Go to China. Ask random citizens what happened at Tiananmen Square in 1989.