Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

[dave1381]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

I heard the since Harvard has statistically had more successful seasons than Cornell, the NCAA has decided to allow Harvard to advance regardless of the score.

Haha, if only for Harvard, the NCAA women's hockey tournament had the same format as the Gazelle Group's Legend's Classic.

(For reference, this is a men's basketball tournament this year which had 16 teams, with 4 regionals, and semis/finals in Atlantic City. Cornell men's basketball upset host UMass in one of the regionals. And guess who advanced to Atlantic City? UMass!!! The semis/finals teams were pre-determined Worst... format.... ever)

 

[gotice]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

How had Bellamy been playing? Until tonight, Bellamy had a 1.35 GA in 17 games for the Crimson after being thrust into the starting role after Kessler's season-ending injury.

A freshman, she was an all-state first team selection playing for her high school team in Duluth, according to her bio.

All of the foregoing doesn't really prepare you to face two breakaways on your first two shots of the game.

I expect we'll see a lot of good things from Ms Bellamy over the next three years.

I agree. It is a huge task for a freshman to step in and have that kind of weight on her shoulders. She had moments of brilliance in the games that she played and I would expect as she gains confidence and maturity, she will be a solid tender

 

[brookyone]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

Thanks...I just read her bio. I was also trying to find, from the Harvard news releases, when Kessler got injured...but no success...was it in January?...I read somewhere that it was a knee injury...is that correct?

http://www.uscho.com/news/college-hockey/id,17983/CareerOverforHarvardsKessler.html

 

[dave1381]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

Thanks...I just read her bio. I was also trying to find, from the Harvard news releases, when Kessler got injured...but no success...was it in January?...I read somewhere that it was a knee injury...is that correct?

Yeah, though she also missed a few games for U-22s. So they pretty much didn't have her in the 2nd half.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

I agree Cornell has been underrated in the polls.

It's fair to say that Harvard was not the No. 4 team in the country without Kessler in net, and they would not have picked three points against Minnesota without her.

I thought they'd fade entirely once Kessler went down and not even make NCAAs.

My thoughts are very similar to yours.

Have been saying all year Cornell is underrated. (And I'm not a direct Cornell fan, so unbiased on that opinion).

Secondly had the exact same thought as you when Kessler went down. (Uh Oh the Crimson is in trouble). Kudo's to them to make it this far. Suggests the program is more balanced than what some people give them credit for. They also have a pretty good class coming in, specially on D.

Good luck to the Big Red in the Frozen Four.
As an ECAC fan cheering for ECAC teams as long as they are in it.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

Congrats to Cornell.

Congrats to the Big Red. Was gone all night, so just found out about the result. Shocked to find out about the lopsided score. BTW Up north the CIS championship is on as we speak, taking place in Antigonish NS.

 

[Watson Rink]

Breaking News

Breaking News

Breaking news....the NHL, the NFL, Major League Baseball and the NBA have just issued a joint communique announcing that they've been wrong all these years: non-divisional, non-conference, interleague and similar games shouldn't count in the standings. Rather, they should be treated as exhibition matches.

Gary Bettman, as spokesperson for the four leagues, commented "I feel sheepish...how can we have been so blind all these years? And to think it took somebody whose team has never been to the Show before to point it out to us.

"It may take some time, but our first step will be to recalculate all the seedings for post-season play on the basis of intra-divisional play only, going back to the years in which divisional play was first introduced in the respective leagues -- the 'Sixties, for most of the leagues. After we reseed the various playoff series on a more manifestly equitable basis, we'll try to round up the players, in the case of those series that were played between the wrong teams, or with the wrong home ice/field/court advantage, and have the games replayed. In the meantime, we'll be asking the athletes to mail their rings or other hardware back to the leagues. We certainly live in interesting times -- who knows, it may turn out that what conventional wisdom considers to be hockey dynasties, teams like the Canadiens or Oilers that have gone on to post-season play year after year over a decade or more, did so on the basis of a bunch of meaningless games with teams outside their division."

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

I agree. It is a huge task for a freshman to step in and have that kind of weight on her shoulders. She had moments of brilliance in the games that she played and I would expect as she gains confidence and maturity, she will be a solid tender

Most experienced goaltenders will tell you that there is usually at least one game every season where nothing goes right or worse, where everything goes wrong, regardless of how they otherwise play. Sometimes the timing of these gems is somewhat less than propitious...maybe this was one of those for her. The only thing they can do is to accept, forget and move on. But in this situation, the forgetting part will be made more difficult by the lack of games in the immediate future in which to immerse oneself, which would otherwise speed up the amnesia. All the best to her.

I see the atendance was 870. It looked terribly anemic at the start of the game but started filling in during the first period. Any thoughts on this level of attendance for an NCAA Quarter Final Game?...good, bad, expected?

 

[35-Year Go Big Red Fan]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

Woulda' Coulda' Shoulda' -- Just play the games.
Congrats to the BIG RED women on their first Frozen Four!

 

[Skate79]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

I agree Cornell has been underrated in the polls.

It's fair to say that Harvard was not the No. 4 team in the country without Kessler in net, and they would not have picked three points against Minnesota without her.

I thought they'd fade entirely once Kessler went down and not even make NCAAs, but they managed to do just barely enough to preserve that No. 4 rank. Their best wins with Bellamy were over borderline top 10 Northeastern and Providence, and they didn't beat any of the other top 5 ECAC teams in the 2nd half. But they did take care of business against weaker opponents, in a way that a lot of the top teams failed to do. So give them some credit.

Dave, correct me if I'm wrong but I think Northeastern was ranked #7 in the country at the time we beat them (we were #6) in the Beanpot. I think Providence was ranked ninth in the country. Both teams were playing well when Harvard faced them.

While I agree that we don't take 3 out of 4 points against Minnesota without Kessler, I think you are doing the rest of the team a disservice because Harvard not only skated with the Gophers, they beat them to the puck a majority of the time. They were two of the best games of the season and they were a total team effort.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

Most experienced goaltenders will tell you that there is usually at least one game every season where nothing goes right or worse, where everything goes wrong, regardless of how they otherwise play. Sometimes the timing of these gems is somewhat less than propitious...maybe this was one of those for her. The only thing they can do is to accept, forget and move on. But in this situation, the forgetting part will be made more difficult by the lack of games in the immediate future in which to immerse oneself, which would otherwise speed up the amnesia. All the best to her.

I see the atendance was 870. It looked terribly anemic at the start of the game but started filling in during the first period. Any thoughts on this level of attendance for an NCAA Quarter Final Game?...good, bad, expected?

I think it was better than expected given that our students are on Spring Break and probably couldn't wait to get out of town. There were more students at this game than I've seen all year so thanks to them and the band for sticking around and supporting the team.

No question Bellamy had a tough night. She has played much better in the time she has been in there. Last week, she let in a couple of softies so the pressure of a tournament may have gotten to her. I noticed she was fighting the puck somewhat and she definitely lacked the aggressiveness she showed earlier in the year (the game she played up at Hanover in January was a beaut... she absolutely stonewalled the Green on close in chances time and again over three consecutive PKs.). Hopefully, she puts this game behind her and starts next season with a clean slate.

Bellamy aside, tonight's game was an aberration. Every mistake the Crimson made wound up in the back of our net. It wasn't like Cornell was putting a ton of pressure on us. We played tight with the puck, our passing wasn't crisp and the defensive breakdowns were numerous. By far, our worst game this year and our worst tournament game since the '03 debacle against Dartmouth in the ECAC tourney finale.

Harvard overachieved this year in my opinion. I never expected that they would get home ice in the NCAAs especially after our slow start. But the team hung together and the win over Dartmouth prior to Thanksgiving was a big confidence boost. Then of course came the weekend with Minnesota. We won't soon forget that one.

 

[Watson Rink]

More seriously....

More seriously....

This thread is getting sidetracked tonight with arguments about the seeding criteria and trying to apportion the blame among the goalie, defensemen and forwards whose defensive system cracked tonight.

Blackbeard and 35 Year Big Red Fan point us in the right directions.

35 Year Big Red Fan is right. The bottom line is that Cornell won the game tonight by a long shot. They deserve congratulations for advancing to the Frozen Four, and our best wishes for a strong ECAC showing this year.

Blackbeard is also right. For 17 games the freshman goalie stood up to a harsh task and acquitted herself well. The team supported her over those 17 games by playing excellent defense and by achieving territorial advantage. Pretty much everybody contributed to the disappointment tonight, but the test to their characters is to deal with that adversity, and if they dealt so well with losing Kessler, I expect they'll deal with this too. It's too bad they have to wait until the fall, but with the incoming first-years, next year should be another season of achievement for them.

 

[RStarr]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

My thoughts are very similar to yours.

Have been saying all year Cornell is underrated.

mattj and I have been saying it for a few years...and I foresee them only becoming stronger. IIRC It also took the Lakers a while to really gain respect.

In the end, Cornell either faces a team they haven't played or a team that swept them season opener. It should be interesting...

 

[dave1381]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

Dave, correct me if I'm wrong but I think Northeastern was ranked #7 in the country at the time we beat them (we were #6) in the Beanpot. I think Providence was ranked ninth in the country. Both teams were playing well when Harvard faced them.

True, but I think Northeastern and Providence should've been ranked where they are now at the time Harvard played them.

While I agree that we don't take 3 out of 4 points against Minnesota without Kessler

Ok.

I think you are doing the rest of the team a disservice because Harvard not only skated with the Gophers, they beat them to the puck a majority of the time. They were two of the best games of the season and they were a total team effort.

Sure, you don't shut out Minnesota twice without a total team effort. Saying one player was important doesn't mean the others aren't.

That said, Kessler was irreplaceable. The team did far better than I expected in her absence, but never really was one of the four best teams in the nation after her injury. But all the credit to the team for doing just enough to hold on to that home ice quarterfinal.

 

[ARM]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

mattj and I have been saying it for a few years...and I foresee them only becoming stronger. IIRC It also took the Lakers a while to really gain respect.

Not a lot of parallels between Mercyhurst and Cornell. The Lakers were a 20-win team on the edge of the NCAA tournament for a few years before it expanded to 8 teams and they made the field. The Big Red were improved the last couple of seasons, but they still had a losing record. A team pretty much has to get into the upper half of its league before it will get much consideration nationally.

 

[dave1381]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

Exactly. Cornell was an 8-seed last two years. Faced Harvard both times. Some went on about how underrated Cornell was then. They get swept both times. This season they started 8-7-2 and underachieved in nonconference play (yes, even if you're missing players, you're underachieving if you lose at home to Providence twice by 3 goals). It's been clear though that Cornell was getting better recruits and better depth every year, so they were eventually going to make a big leap.

So, yes, Cornell got exactly as much respect as was deserved until this 14-1-2 run they're on right now. Congrats to them for finally making the breakthrough. I don't think they'll be anything less than an ECAC and Frozen Four favorite next season.

 

[Un_Poco_Lento]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

Not a lot of parallels between Mercyhurst and Cornell. The Lakers were a 20-win team on the edge of the NCAA tournament for a few years before it expanded to 8 teams and they made the field. The Big Red were improved the last couple of seasons, but they still had a losing record. A team pretty much has to get into the upper half of its league before it will get much consideration nationally.

Honestly, as a generally optimistic Cornell fan I thought the Big Red were a year away from national contention. I figured Cornell would need a fair bit of luck to get into the NCAA, and I was hoping for home ice and an ECAC final four appearance to get the team some single-elimination postseason experience. They blew right through that with the league RS and tournament titles and now a trip to the Frozen Four. This has been a tremendous season for Cornell by any measure, and it's not a fluke - this is an excellent hockey team.

As for the game - Bellamy didn't bail Harvard out at all but I don't think you can fault the goaltender when you allow 2 clean breakaways, a 2-1 where the forwards make 2 passes through the D on their way to the net, and a goal on a scrum in front where the lone forward on the doorstep gets 2 or 3 whacks at the puck. Cornell was opportunistic to say the least, Mazzotta was solid in net, and even though Harvard had a territorial advantage for huge stretches of the game Cornell blocked a lot of shots and kept most of the play in the corners and on the perimeter. I didn't think Harvard was awful by any stretch and frankly I don't think either of these teams have a great shot at a national title, but it was a fun game to watch and I give both teams a lot of credit for playing out a tough, physical game of playoff hockey.

As for Cornell's seeding - no complaints here. I think Cornell was a little lucky to be in Boston playing Harvard instead of Minnesota playing UMD or Minny. That last win over Clarkson was huge for the PWR. If Cornell beat Syracuse and PC when they had players out for the U-22 or whatever was going on then maybe they would've been hosting, but who cares. Cornell made the Frozen Four! Woo!

At this point I think Cornell is likely to be a pretty big underdog next weekend, but anything can happen in a 4-team single-elimination tournament so here's hoping for 2 more wins for the Big Red.

 

[dave1381]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

I don't think either of these teams have a great shot at a national title, but it was a fun game to watch and I give both teams a lot of credit for playing out a tough, physical game of playoff hockey.
At this point I think Cornell is likely to be a pretty big underdog next weekend, but anything can happen in a 4-team single-elimination tournament so here's hoping for 2 more wins for the Big Red.

I think you sell Cornell a bit short. Certainly they're an underdog, but they'll come in the Frozen Four much more battle-tested than Mercyhurst has been over the past month.

I'd give Cornell and better chance of beating Mercyhurst than any of the 4-5 seeds against the No. 1 seed, except for probably Brown over Minnesota in 2002 and Minnesota over UNH in 2006 (and I'm not just saying that because those were the teams that actually won). The No. 1 seed has lost in the semis in every Olympic year.

Here's some more encouraging stats: Cornell has just laid 10 goals on two of the best defensive teams in the country, Harvard and Clarkson (sure, neither is what they were earlier this season, but still).

Here is how Mercyhurst has done against the top offensive teams it has played, aside from your season-opening series: (I go by WCHODR rankings)
No. 3 UMD: 2 goals, 4 goals
No. 12 St. Cloud: 4 goals
No. 13 Clarkson: 3 goals, 5 goals
No. 14 Colgate: 3 goals, 2 goals

The WCHODR model expects a 3-2 Mercyhurst win. I expect that could be a fun higher-scoring game than that. Cornell clearly knows how to finish. Mercyhurst hasn't faced a team with the kind of weapons Cornell has since mid-January.

 

[ARM]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

I'd give Cornell and better chance of beating Mercyhurst than any of the 4-5 seeds against the No. 1 seed, except for probably Brown over Minnesota in 2002 and Minnesota over UNH in 2006 (and I'm not just saying that because those were the teams that actually won).

I like Wisconsin's chances against Harvard in 2008, certainly better than Minnesota/UNH/2006 if the teams were going to play multiple times. SLU bumping off Dartmouth in 2001 is the other upset that I'd put at that level. I think one can make a case that the 2008 result was the instance where the lower seed really was the better team at that point of the season, based on what happened in surrounding years.

And if this discussion proves nothing else, it should demonstrate that Cornell is far less likely to receive no respect than BU is.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Cornell at Harvard, Friday 7 p.m.

I like Wisconsin's chances against Harvard in 2008, certainly better than Minnesota/UNH/2006 if the teams were going to play multiple times. SLU bumping off Dartmouth in 2001 is the other upset that I'd put at that level. I think one can make a case that the 2008 result was the instance where the lower seed really was the better team at that point of the season, based on what happened in surrounding years.

And if this discussion proves nothing else, it should demonstrate that Cornell is far less likely to receive no respect than BU is.

Assuming BU gets by the Lakers and makes it to the Frozen Four. A big 'if' at this point but as we have seen in the past, Mercyhurst is prone to the upset in the NCAA quarters.

Harvard's out of conference schedule in '08 was not very strong. The toughest game we had on the regular season schedule outside our conference was UNH and we lost up there pretty convincingly. I was concerned going into the Frozen Four that season that we were not 'battle-tested' and my fears proved to be correct when the Badgers took us down. If we had played a couple of WCHA teams during the regular season, it might have been different.

I liken Cornell to the BC team in '07 that caught some people by surprise with their run to the Frozen Four. No matter who they play, it will be a tough, hard fought game.