Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

If the video shows what they say it shows...oh boy.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

This one will be interesting. The BLM movement could end up suffering another credibility setback in the eyes of people like me (I really want to be on their side, but they continue to make it difficult) if their response to a murderer being charged with murder is the same response as they give when a murderer gets paid vacation.

edit: of course, regardless of how badly they may go about things IMO, I will always be on the side of demanding police accountability.

Does BLM have any sort of formal structure? They seem to be a collection of similarly-inclined but autonomous local groups. This leaves them open to their detractors' cherry picking whatever the worst reaction of any of these is and calling that indicative of the whole movement. Occupy had the same problem (as does any grassroots movement).

Unlike Occupy, BLM at least has a very precise genesis and goal: police must stop murdering unarmed black people. It seems ready made for effective organization and political effectiveness.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

This one will be interesting. The BLM movement could end up suffering another credibility setback in the eyes of people like me (I really want to be on their side, but they continue to make it difficult) if their response to a murderer being charged with murder is the same response as they give when a murderer gets paid vacation.

edit: of course, regardless of how badly they may go about things IMO, I will always be on the side of demanding police accountability.

I support BLM but I think they are completely wrong in the Minneapolis case. Jamar Clark was (allegedly) beating the woman and was threatening the paramedics and the cops. (including possibly going after the cops gun) While true they should not be killing him if he is handcuffed and on the ground (and the cops should be punished if that is even close to true) Jamar Clark is not the face you want on your protest. (again, if he was in fact beating a woman and threatening emergency workers)

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Does BLM have any sort of formal structure? They seem to be a collection of similarly-inclined but autonomous local groups. This leaves them open to their detractors' cherry picking whatever the worst reaction of any of these is and calling that indicative of the whole movement. Occupy had the same problem (as does any grassroots movement).

Unlike Occupy, BLM at least has a very precise genesis and goal: police must stop murdering unarmed black people. It seems ready made for effective organization and political effectiveness.

Problem is they have no one to tell them the how illogical they act. They **** off the very people who want to support them. I get protest is about making people uncomfortable but they are tone deaf on it. Protesting a Bernie Sanders rally (for example) seems counter-intuitive.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

I support BLM but I think they are completely wrong in the Minneapolis case. Jamar Clark was (allegedly) beating the woman and was threatening the paramedics and the cops. (including possibly going after the cops gun) While true they should not be killing him if he is handcuffed and on the ground (and the cops should be punished if that is even close to true) Jamar Clark is not the face you want on your protest. (again, if he was in fact beating a woman and threatening emergency workers)

Those that live in the Mpls/St. Paul area know far better than I, but to an outsider it appears the Twin Cities branch of BLM has been desperately searching for a rallying point. They tried to create a transit nightmare at the State Fair, but Minnesotans still managed to eat more cheese curds that is possibly healthy. They wanted to disrupt the Twin Cities Marathon, but got distracted/talked out of it.

 

[GrinCDXX]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Does BLM have any sort of formal structure? They seem to be a collection of similarly-inclined but autonomous local groups. This leaves them open to their detractors' cherry picking whatever the worst reaction of any of these is and calling that indicative of the whole movement. Occupy had the same problem (as does any grassroots movement).

Unlike Occupy, BLM at least has a very precise genesis and goal: police must stop murdering unarmed black people. It seems ready made for effective organization and political effectiveness.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right that there isn't much formal coordination among the local groups.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Those that live in the Mpls/St. Paul area know far better than I, but to an outsider it appears the Twin Cities branch of BLM has been desperately searching for a rallying point. They tried to create a transit nightmare at the State Fair, but Minnesotans still managed to eat more cheese curds that is possibly healthy. They wanted to disrupt the Twin Cities Marathon, but got distracted/talked out of it.

With regards to the State Fair, they were threatened with arrest if they disrupted the business of the fair, and given an area off to the side where they could protest. When it comes to the marathon, they were again threatened with arrest if they blocked the marathon route at any point, and again given an area off to the side where they could protest, but then they left the allotted space and started marching down non-marathon streets, disrupting traffic in St. Paul. No arrests were made for an illegal disruption of traffic, though there should have been in that case.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Problem is they have no one to tell them the how illogical they act.

Protest groups need mentors and eminences gris inside the group. The civil rights movement had Charles Hamilton Houston, A. Philip Randolph and Ella Baker who had been active for thirty years and understood both the tricks that opponents would use to try to smear them and also the appropriate ways to deal with provocation.

It makes sense that BLM is not going to listen to a bunch of elderly hockey fans whitesplaining to them how they alienate us. But they do need people inside the movement who understand how protest occurs in the US and how to effectively get public opinion on board.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

No they shouldnt listen to me, but if BLM thinks Bernie Sanders is the problem they are asking the wrong questions. Has no one in BLM ever taken a logic or negotiations class?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

No they shouldnt listen to me, but if BLM thinks Bernie Sanders is the problem they are asking the wrong questions. Has no one in BLM ever taken a logic or negotiations class?

Hey, I agree. If they shared our view of the American political spectrum they'd see that Sanders is the closest thing they have right now to a friend with a high national profile, and they should have talked with Bernie who I am certain would have been more than happy to stand up there with a guitar marked "this machine kills fascists" talking about police brutality and tying Ferguson to the larger issue of economic injustice in America.

The scary thing to contemplate is they may think our POV is just as racist as the orcs'. Radicals often save their greatest bile for liberals. This has never made sense to me, but it seems to be inevitable -- they believe that trying to reach compromises to partially further the movement's aims exhausts the energy and "misses the moment," and is thus more dangerous to the movement than its active opposition. ("You can't jump a chasm in two small jumps.") This goes all the way back to the June Days Uprising in 1848 as a central tension between radical working class and moderate middle class liberalism).

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

The scary thing to contemplate is they may think our POV is just as racist as the orcs'.

Maybe they are just being tired of getting invited to the party only once every four years, just to vote.

Minneapolis has a female mayor who is about as far left as Bernie Sanders, and who has appointed a female lesbian as her police chief. It has been interesting, to say the least, to watch these two squirm between BLM with its torches and cellphone cameras on one side and the Mayor's police union masters on the other.

 

[theprofromdover]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

who has appointed a female lesbian as her police chief. .

As opposed to a male lesbian?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

As opposed to a male lesbian?

His name is Guy Incognito.

 

[Jimjamesak]

If the video shows what they say it shows...oh boy.

Yup, this could get messy.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Hey, I agree. If they shared our view of the American political spectrum they'd see that Sanders is the closest thing they have right now to a friend with a high national profile, and they should have talked with Bernie who I am certain would have been more than happy to stand up there with a guitar marked "this machine kills fascists" talking about police brutality and tying Ferguson to the larger issue of economic injustice in America.

The scary thing to contemplate is they may think our POV is just as racist as the orcs'. Radicals often save their greatest bile for liberals. This has never made sense to me, but it seems to be inevitable -- they believe that trying to reach compromises to partially further the movement's aims exhausts the energy and "misses the moment," and is thus more dangerous to the movement than its active opposition. ("You can't jump a chasm in two small jumps.") This goes all the way back to the June Days Uprising in 1848 as a central tension between radical working class and moderate middle class liberalism).

Oh I guarantee they find our POV racist. I have been called racist for arguing equality before because it might punish blacks at all. (also same thing with women...get called sexist for pushing equality) Apparently my support of equality promotes inequality...again tone deaf.

 

[johnnypohlfan]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Does BLM have any sort of formal structure? They seem to be a collection of similarly-inclined but autonomous local groups. This leaves them open to their detractors' cherry picking whatever the worst reaction of any of these is and calling that indicative of the whole movement.

Sort of like how your cop-hating cronies do the exact same thing when discussing police?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Oh I guarantee they find our POV racist. I have been called racist for arguing equality before because it might punish blacks at all. (also same thing with women...get called sexist for pushing equality) Apparently my support of equality promotes inequality...again tone deaf.

Well, there are lots of ways to view "equality," and sometimes a strict observance of equal measures, when applied to a grossly unequal environment, can perpetuate the inequality, only now with the patina of "fairness." For example, what could be more equal than standardized testing?

In general, people throw "racism" and "reverse racism" around way too easily, since those charges imply some degree of disrespect, and the people involved are generally doing their best to be respectful. And then of course there are genuine arsonists out there (see the immediately prior post in this thread) who are trying to concern troll, spew their bile, and "win" whatever p-ssing contest their monkey brain tells them a debate is.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Sort of like how your cop-hating cronies do the exact same thing when discussing police?

While writing I was actually thinking about adding this as an example, so, yes -- exactly. But you also demonstrate how that can then be used to whitewash the actual misbehavior of the bad actors. You snarl "cop-hating," when what we are (as you well know) is "bad cop-hating." You cite an illegitimate tactic by some of your opponents in some situations to pretend that all arguments are illegitimate in all circumstances, and that is just as ridiculous and illogical.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

As opposed to a male lesbian?

That's why you shouldn't try to quickly type a post as you are on your way out the door to lunch.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Minneapolis police say they have two of the shooters in custody. One of them is a 32 year old Hispanic man, seemingly not the prototypical white supremacist.