College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

[WeWantMore]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

Easy- the coach should have met the same suspensions as the players did. that would have been much more significant. Moreso if the players leave, as expected.

Are the players still expected to leave? I think the deadline to declare for the draft was a long time ago.

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

Are the players still expected to leave? I think the deadline to declare for the draft was a long time ago.

January 15th I believe was the underclassman deadline.

 

[Kepler]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

Let me ask you in all sincerity: What would the appropriate self-imposed sanction be?

Suppose you're the Director of Compliance, and the AD asks you to make a recommendation. But note that the University doesn't want anything more severe than the NCAA would impose. Also remember that you're not a member of an independent judiciary. The University is your employer, so your hands are partially tied.

Still, the AD wants you to come up with a proposed punishment that the NCAA won't add on to. If the NCAA decides you were too lenient, that's another PR hit for the University. So you're assignment is fairly straightforward. Just get it exactly right on the first try.

From your post, it's obvious you think that the proposed self-sanction is laughably inadequate. I'll infer that you believe that the NCAA will be much harsher, or at least should be.

Anyone can throw a brick. Take it to the next level and tell us what should have been done.

Lest anyone think I'm being too hard on alfablue, please be aware that I know him personally. He is fully capable of the more sophisticated response if he decides to play along.

Good post. My answer is: I have no idea. I don't know what the standard is, though researching like violations would develop a baseline.

Tressel ducking responsibility in the presser ("I didn't know who to report it to..." Really, Jim?) is disappointing and tOSU alums can't be happy at the bad PR.

 

[pirate]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

Report says that Trussel knew that Ohio State players were selling that stuff months before Ohio State officially found out.

The quote I heard today on M&M was that Tressel didn't know who to notify when he got the original notification of the activity in april so he didn't tell anyone. They also said, I didn't hear this quote, that Tressel stated he had never heard of this before when it came to light at the end of the season.

I know integrity, character and honor are not on the KPI's for a college coach but he knew if he did something before the season it would create a big problem in terms of record...he then lied about knowing and makes me wonder if Pryor staying could have been some kind of even more unholy alliance (I didn't turn you in, helped minimize damage and kept you in the bowl game... you got another year to demonstrate you should earn millions, you should return the favor by playing another season)

 

[Priceless]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

Easy- the coach should have met the same suspensions as the players did. that would have been much more significant. Moreso if the players leave, as expected.

Being suspended for patsy games against in state teams doesn't amount to much- he misses two blow outs at the stadium, but gets to be involved with the week of practice.

I'm ignoring the hypocracy of the rules- I can see that player should be able to do what they want with things, but can also see that "gifts won" during games can be used as cash payments for playing....

So. Rule was broken, right?

Players broke rule, and the punishment was to suspend them not for the bowl game, but for the first 5 games of the season (right?). Many outcry that this is weak, so that ESPN can make money, but the back line is that OSU didn't know about it, and forgot to tell the kids clearly that this was not correct to do. Now we find out that OSU DID know about it, and didn't do anything about it. And that should be as bad, or even worse, than the players who did the wrong, since the school is obligated with policing thier own program. Since it's just as bad as what the player did, the OSU official should face the same sanctions as the player do. Since that is the coach, so be it.

Whether you agree or not with the broken rule, rules were broken, and high up OSU officials knew. Both the rule breakers and officials who didn't do anything should pay equal penalty.

( I would be equally mad if the same thing happened up here... was hoping that the RR fallout would have been more harsh, since I think he thumbed his nose at the rule- but he did get fired, so that's ok now)

The deadline to declare for the draft was in January. They're staying.

Players don't know about rule - 5 game suspension
Administrators know about the rule, lie about the breaking of the rule (covering it up) then give us this horse**** line about "I didn't know who to tell." Even kids know who to tell. - 2 games?

Get real. The administrator (coach) should get more of a punishment than the players. He was in a position of authority, knew rules had been violated and covered it up. It doesn't matter what the severity of the violation is - the fact that he lied and covered up the crime is more important. The NCAA should come down on Ohio State like a ton of bricks. I'm sure the folks at USC are just waiting with bated breath to see what the NCAA does.
Oh, and this is the tip of the iceberg. If they really want, the NCAA can use this as an excuse to launch a full investigation of the whole program and who knows what they'll find. Of course, that's assuming anyone at the NCAA really want to find anything...

 

[Kepler]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

It doesn't matter what the severity of the violation is - the fact that he lied and covered up the crime is more important.

Yes, that's the essence of it right there. If the NC$$ doesn't punish outright lying, why even have compliance officers? Just do what you want and bluff it out.

 

[unofan]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

Let me ask you in all sincerity: What would the appropriate self-imposed sanction be?

Suppose you're the Director of Compliance, and the AD asks you to make a recommendation. But note that the University doesn't want anything more severe than the NCAA would impose. Also remember that you're not a member of an independent judiciary. The University is your employer, so your hands are partially tied.[/SIZE]

This right here is why I would never be a compliance officer at any SEC school or similar programs (like tOSU) - your job isn't to help run a clean program, but to hide the cheating going on and be willing to fall on your sword when the **** hits the fan.

 

[alfablue]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

thank you for correcting me on the players staying (I haven't been following), and the length of the suspension (forgot).

pgb- looking at the situation, I'm not sure how the OSU officials are any different than the players, and many have argued what they did was worse- which can be implied as a cover up. But it seems pretty clear that 1) players broke a rule, and 2) high up OSU official knew about it, and didn't do anything. So at a bare minimum, the punishments should be the same for both. One can argue a lot that the official should be handled harder, since they are/were in a position to do something about it, so....

The excuse that "they didn't know" that it was - a punishment, who to talk to, etc- are all excuses. If you are an official of that capacity, you SHOULD know that it's wrong and SHOULD know who to tell. And should know how to stop it. I get letters every year about rules that I am supposed to follow as a supporter and funder of a program- so I, as a fan and payer, am supposed to know. I would fully expect that officials in the program must know as much, or more. OSU, Michigan, Idaho, or whatever- they are being paid to run this program, it's their JOB to know.

So, again, at a bare minimum, Tressell should have the same suspension as the players- 5 games, no pay.

 

[alfablue]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

This right here is why I would never be a compliance officer at any SEC school or similar programs (like tOSU) - your job isn't to help run a clean program, but to hide the cheating going on and be willing to fall on your sword when the **** hits the fan.

I'm starting to get the feeling that for every person who stops watching a given sport with scandals, many others are right there to fill in.... Based on how ESPN handles these kinds of things.

As much as I hate BSU, I bet they would he hung out to dry, since the $$$ following them would be a lot less, and the imact more than enough to attempt to make a point. Or at least appear to make a point.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

Easy- the coach should have met the same suspensions as the players did. that would have been much more significant. Moreso if the players leave, as expected.

Being suspended for patsy games against in state teams doesn't amount to much- he misses two blow outs at the stadium, but gets to be involved with the week of practice.

I'm ignoring the hypocracy of the rules- I can see that player should be able to do what they want with things, but can also see that "gifts won" during games can be used as cash payments for playing....

So. Rule was broken, right?

Players broke rule, and the punishment was to suspend them not for the bowl game, but for the first 5 games of the season (right?). Many outcry that this is weak, so that ESPN can make money, but the back line is that OSU didn't know about it, and forgot to tell the kids clearly that this was not correct to do. Now we find out that OSU DID know about it, and didn't do anything about it. And that should be as bad, or even worse, than the players who did the wrong, since the school is obligated with policing thier own program. Since it's just as bad as what the player did, the OSU official should face the same sanctions as the player do. Since that is the coach, so be it.

Whether you agree or not with the broken rule, rules were broken, and high up OSU officials knew. Both the rule breakers and officials who didn't do anything should pay equal penalty.

( I would be equally mad if the same thing happened up here... was hoping that the RR fallout would have been more harsh, since I think he thumbed his nose at the rule- but he did get fired, so that's ok now)

See, I knew you could do it.

This won't be much of a surprise to you, but it may be to others: I agree with the general thrust of your improved post. I might even go one step further and say that the players' appeal should be dropped as no longer appropriate.

One correction: As has already been addressed, the involved players are all expected to stay in school.

One clarification: The "OSU Official" is the Head Coach. According to local media reports, the violation was discovered in a review of Tressel's e-mails. The review was being conducted in connection with the players' appeal. Those conducting the investigation certainly aren't being accused of any wrongdoing, nor should they be.

Factual particulars aside, I don't think there's any major difference in the values and expectations we're bringing to the table. If there is, it's that I would emphasize that there is a genuine possibility that the final NCAA outcome will differ from what is self-imposed. The self-imposed sanctions are more like a first offer in a plea bargain. Most often you don't put your best offer on the table right up front -- in any sort of bargaining situation. But to the extent you're describing an appropriate final outcome, I agree with you.

Last but not least: For both strategic and ethical reasons, the self-imposed sanctions should be closer-than-usual to the expected outcome. This is because there is a greater-than-usual probability that the first offer will be accepted.

 

[alfablue]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

One clarification: The "OSU Official" is the Head Coach. According to local media reports, the violation was discovered in a review of Tressel's e-mails. The review was being conducted in connection with the players' appeal. Those conducting the investigation certainly aren't being accused of any wrongdoing, nor should they be.

that, I know. But calling him an official makes it more generic- in that if it were an assistant to the coach or assistant to the A/D or any other person getting paid by the school to specifically work on an athletic program- they would face a sanction based on rules being broken. AND, it's not a UM vs Tressell, or just an anti Tressell post- but that an official that knows about rule breaking and doesn't do anything should face sanctions.

Much more generic, and much, much more to my real point. It's not about the head coach, or that it's OSU, or that it's Tressell, but it's about a paid employee, who is probaly on the top 10 payees for the OSU budget. Higher than Gee, but lower than the top doctors (assuming OSU is anything like Michigan).

 

[NMU8405]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

Yeah not really surprising. I was hoping for more.

This isnt done yet. The NCAA is going to have a say in this. Dont forget, Tressel lied and mislead the NCAA when they questioned him back a few months ago. Look what the NCAA did to Dez Bryant and Bruce Pearl for lying. I'd look for an additional 3 games (5 total) from the NCAA. The NCAA is going to look at the self imposed suspension and laugh. Its against Akron and Toledo.

Also interesting, if these violations were known and not reported, and included Pryor, he did receive free gifts, making him ineligible. They could have to vacate wins should the NCAA really throw the book at Ohio State.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

that, I know. But calling him an official makes it more generic- in that if it were an assistant to the coach or assistant to the A/D or any other person getting paid by the school to specifically work on an athletic program- they would face a sanction based on rules being broken. AND, it's not a UM vs Tressell, or just an anti Tressell post- but that an official that knows about rule breaking and doesn't do anything should face sanctions.

Making it more generic is fine, and is often a better way to state the case. I was a little concerned that by using the plural term "officials," that you were preparing to shoot the messenger as well. (meaning the in-house investigators)

Much more generic, and much, much more to my real point. It's not about the head coach, or that it's OSU, or that it's Tressell, but it's about a paid employee, who is probaly on the top 10 payees for the OSU budget. Higher than Gee, but lower than the top doctors (assuming OSU is anything like Michigan).

Don't know for sure, but I assume you're largely correct. Without looking anything up, I'd imagine Tressel is at or near the top. I'd be very suprised to hear that he isn't in the top 10.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

Ok, this is much bigger than what I originally heard. This is getting to be a pretty serious violation.

Was this the "Banhammer" that Colin Cowherd was talking about or was it that Oregon thing that looks like it's going nowhere?

 

[alfablue]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

Don't know for sure, but I assume you're largely correct. Without looking anything up, I'd imagine Tressel is at or near the top. I'd be very suprised to hear that he isn't in the top 10.

If OSU's hospital system is any good, Tressel won't be #1. Even with all of the stuff OSU doesn't pay.

 

[Handyman]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

The Oregon thing wont go nowhere, it will just take time to get all the info. (re: stall)

I still think it was hilarious that Pryor was quoted at the Sugar Bowl as saying they knew what they did was wrong and nothing happened to him. This is getting out of hand now that Tressel knew and lied, if the NCAA ignores this a lot of schools are going to be pretty ticked off not the least of which will be USC and Tennessee.

 

[French Rage]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

The Oregon thing wont go nowhere, it will just take time to get all the info. (re: stall)

They will be found guilty on one count of almost beating an SEC team in the championship, which is a non-forgivable offsense to the NCAA.

 

[Handyman]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

They will be found guilty on one count of almost beating an SEC team in the championship, which is a non-forgivable offsense to the NCAA.

Yup...like I said they will be martyred so the NCAA can say "Look see we are doing our best to figure it out and stop it!" whilst really doing nothing.

 

[bigmrg74]

Yup...like I said they will be martyred so the NCAA can say "Look see we are doing our best to figure it out and stop it!" whilst really doing nothing.

Yep. Personally, I think a lot of schools would start cleaning up if you start taking non-conference home games away from the cheaters. And if the other school wants to host the game at a larger venue, then the cheaters get to pick up the cost of renting the stadium. For example, say the NCAA says that OSU can't play akron at the horseshoe. The Zips play in a small stadium, but aren't really that far from Cleveland. So, they talk to the Browns, hammer out a deal, and OSU would be on the hook for whatever costs Cleveland Brown Stadium. Zips get the gate. OSU gets the win perhaps, but none of the money that they would normally get. That hurts the bottom line for OSU, and would give the smaller schools a little more reason to speak up when they hear something amiss at another schools.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: College Football V: Bowls Are Done; Carry On My Wayward Sons

It doesn't matter what the severity of the violation is - the fact that he lied and covered up the crime is more important.

Yes, that's the essence of it right there. If the NC$$ doesn't punish outright lying, why even have compliance officers? Just do what you want and bluff it out.

Wow. What are the odds? Priceless and Kepler agreeing with Ken Starr in back-to-back posts? Inconceivable!