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Colgate 22-23

Actually I disagree with you HOCKEY BUCKEYE. Yes, the WCHA seems to have stronger teams and Muzzy is a good coach, but the other factor was that Quinnipiac had no legs after the first period after playing 6 periods against PSU on Thursday night. Quinnipiac was winning and was equal in shots on goal after period 1.
The other thing is players know the teams in the WCHA have the best chance to win a national title, so the best Grad students choose to go to Wisconsin, Ohio State, UMD, and Minnesota, further making their team better. It just makes it a lot more difficult for other teams to compete.
 
TchrBill said:
Something tells me its political (money) and distance, Bonzo. Colgate played OSU twice this season; tied (somehow) and lost handily. It was as telling back then as it was today against the Badgers. Not sure 1 or 2 games will elevate any one program. As good as many Eastern teams are, the top choices for men and women seem to be western schools, for good reason. Nothing new.

Hmmmm ;-)
https://twitter.com/BadgerWHockey/status/1634621125685653504?s=20
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Very true. The Badgers have always recruited well in the East. Starting goalie Cami Kronish is from NYC, Caroline Harvey is from NH. Lacey Eden is from MD, Casey O'Brien is from MA, Natalie Buchbinder (currently injured) is from NY. While OH isn't exactly east coast, they have provided the Edwards sisters. Other former prominent Badgers from out East include Hilary Knight, Meggan Duggan, Courtney Burke, Jenny Ryan and the Ammerman sisters. If these level of players keep going west, the Eastern schools will struggle to keep up.
 
LBartowski said:
Actually I disagree with you HOCKEY BUCKEYE.
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The main reason that you disagree is he's talking about a regular-season series versus Colgate and you're talking about an NCAA quarterfinal game yesterday. Pretty easy to see things from different angles when that's the case.
 
LBartowski said:
Actually I disagree with you HOCKEY BUCKEYE. Yes, the WCHA seems to have stronger teams and Muzzy is a good coach, but the other factor was that Quinnipiac had no legs after the first period after playing 6 periods against PSU on Thursday night. Quinnipiac was winning and was equal in shots on goal after period 1.
The other thing is players know the teams in the WCHA have the best chance to win a national title, so the best Grad students choose to go to Wisconsin, Ohio State, UMD, and Minnesota, further making their team better. It just makes it a lot more difficult for other teams to compete.
Click to expand...

Wasn’t sure how Q would fare after their OT marathon, but still think the result would have been similar regardless. They were manhandled last year in the tourney, but their goalie saved them then, too.

Grad transfers to elite powerhouses in the WCHA are a legitimate concern for small, liberal arts schools like Colgate. Have mentioned this many times before. Fifth year Seniors are no match for freshmen or possibly sophomores. Would love a breakdown of those numbers for all 8 teams that participated in the regionals and possible goals/assists/saves (if a goalie) they may have had. ‘Gate would be at the bottom for sure, but no shame in that.

After watching the game and seeing some lopsided stats, does anyone think ‘Gate or Yale were overrated? Thought Yale was the real deal; their defense all season was their backbone to success, and defense wins championships. Not sure what happened. Second early exit as the host school for Colgate; would be lying if I said it doesn’t sting.

Appreciate the info on the Badgers’ Twitter acct. Nothing ‘Gate alumni/fans haven’t heard before, but it’s usually from the other ‘red’ school, Cornell :-/ It’s all good!

I will be pulling for W to win it all. Great, great team and the underdog to boot, a role Colgate has known well as the David vs. Goliath.

Colgate MBB will be in March Madness! Lost to Wisconsin in the first round last year. Can’t catch a break!
 
TchrBill said:
Grad transfers to elite powerhouses in the WCHA are a legitimate concern for small, liberal arts schools like Colgate. Have mentioned this many times before. Fifth year Seniors are no match for freshmen or possibly sophomores. Would love a breakdown of those numbers for all 8 teams that participated in the regionals and possible goals/assists/saves (if a goalie) they may have had. ‘Gate would be at the bottom for sure, but no shame in that.
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Minnesota has two transfers on the roster: Savannah Norcross and Lizi Norton. In the NCAA quarterfinal, they combined for 0 goals and 0 assists. In the WCHA semis and final, they combined for 1 goal and 1 assist (Norton assisting on Norcross's goal). I've been disappointed in Norton's play, but Norcross has been valuable far beyond the 2 goals and 6 assists she's tallied this year. She has been my favorite Gopher since she got here.

Thought Yale was the real deal; their defense all season was their backbone to success, and defense wins championships.
Click to expand...

This is a myth. In every sport, at every level at which it's been studied, offense and defense are equally important to winning. What matters is scoring more than your opponent does, and it doesn't matter how you accomplish that.
 
I'm more of a glass half full kind of guy and feel we have what we need going forward to be very successful. I think we just lost sight of how hard you have to play to win at this level on Saturday which was unfortunate. The COVID transfer portal will be an asterisk soon and teams like Colgate with no or only a few graduate programs will no no longer be at a huge disadvantage. The big universities in urban areas with years of hockey history will always have a greater appeal to most, but that's not what draws girls to Colgate. We certainly seem to be able to recruit some of the best from particularly the Canadian U18 teams each year as well as the top Detroit clubs. We'll be around and you'll start seeing more of us on National women's teams going forward. Look at the impact our transfers and 5th years had on their teams this year. Eleri McKay, PSU; Nemo, Providence; Darcie Lappan, Clarkson. Blue Sky ahead!
 
Not familiar with how the COVID transfer portal works, OT. Is it a temporary thing? Pls explain. Not sure how Coach has built this Empire at Colgate; it does not exist on the men’s side. Why such a disparity?

I think it was more than a bad Saturday, Iowa. Was impressed with how Colgate dominated the ECAC Championship, but wonder if the outcome would have been the same against MN or OSU if they were our 2 opponents. This is nothing new. We were outpaced by OSU twice this year, and the same was true in our NCAA FF game vs. Wisconsin (outshot 45-20). Thought Northeastern benefited from a softer schedule this year, but maybe not. They’re in again and we’re not.

Hoping Serdachny takes the Kaz Award. We’ll find out on the 18th. She’s got as good a chance as anybody. Great news if she is indeed returning.
 
TchrBill said:
Not familiar with how the COVID transfer portal works, OT. Is it a temporary thing? Pls explain.
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The NCAA Transfer Portal predates Covid and is not a temporary thing. By entering the portal, players free their current institution from a scholarship or other commitment and declare to other programs that they are interested in transferring.
 
ARM is correct the transfer portal predates COVID
but it generally was a non event before COVID as usually only disgruntled or frustrated players availed themselves of it when there were coaching changes or occasionally when stars like D Watts moved from BC to Wisc for a better chance at an NCAA title. What COVID did was give players on all the teams that agreed to play during the COVID season of 2020-21 an additional year of eligibility which really amplified transferring as players at schools like the Ivys who don't allow 5th year players at all or the smaller schools like Gate with only a small MAT graduate program available began to see their players with another year of availability move on to larger universities with a better array of graduate programs like many of the WCHA teams have. It should recede after the next year or so back to what it was...
 
Oldtimer said:
What COVID did was give players on all the teams that agreed to play during the COVID season of 2020-21 an additional year of eligibility which really amplified transferring as players . It should recede after the next year or so back to what it was...
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In retrospect giving that extra year kinda screwed up the whole system.
 
Was it just the video quality or was ths ice slow? The puck seemed to die quickly once it left the stick. The puck also looked like it was twice the normal size.
 
You guys are mixing two (or three) things together.

A 'grad transfer' rule came into being in 2006 or so, allowing student-athletes who completed their undergrad degree while still having eligibility to transfer right away. The earliest example I became aware of, and maybe not just because it was Wisconsin but that helped, was quarterback Russell Wilson in 2012.

The undergrad 'one time' transfer rule that allows an undergrad SA the opportunity to transfer without having to sit out a year started in 2018 (or so). Watts would be an example of that. As the name says, the undergrad SA can do this only once.

There have been cases of individuals using both opportunities to transfer, undergrad and then grad.

The 'portal' was/is a convenient way to implement and track the transferring.

Wisconsin women hockey has one grad transfer this season, Compher. Zero undergrad transfers.
 
Timothy A said:
In retrospect giving that extra year kinda screwed up the whole system.
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It wasn't a whole year. We should all remember that.

Depending on the sport and team, it was maybe a half-year to three-quarters of a year. And when they set it all up, nobody had any idea if it would amount to even that. Had they not done so, there would simply not have been a season that year at all, in any of the sports; the student athletes would not have risked blowing a whole year of eligibility on the chance having that year amount to almost nothing had COVID wiped out more games, etc, than it did.
 
Oldtimer said:
I'm more of a glass half full kind of guy and feel we have what we need going forward to be very successful. I think we just lost sight of how hard you have to play to win at this level on Saturday which was unfortunate. The COVID transfer portal will be an asterisk soon and teams like Colgate with no or only a few graduate programs will no no longer be at a huge disadvantage. The big universities in urban areas with years of hockey history will always have a greater appeal to most, but that's not what draws girls to Colgate. We certainly seem to be able to recruit some of the best from particularly the Canadian U18 teams each year as well as the top Detroit clubs. We'll be around and you'll start seeing more of us on National women's teams going forward. Look at the impact our transfers and 5th years had on their teams this year. Eleri McKay, PSU; Nemo, Providence; Darcie Lappan, Clarkson. Blue Sky ahead!
Click to expand...

You have every reason to believe the glass is at least half full. A few years of sustained success, at least 4 more Canada U18 players coming in over the next couple of years (Farah Walker, Avery Pickering, Alexia Aubin, Emmalee Pais) is a great base to build the next wave around.
 
BadgerPete, thanks for the thumbs up! D could be an issue next year though as we lose our top 4...

I was talking earlier about grad transfers which is what caused the problem. By introducing Watts into the discussion I screwed it up. It's grad transfers that have messed everything up.

TechrBill, Coach Fargo somehow got the attention of a lot of young good players circa 2014-15 with his "we skate free" mantra and it worked; good recruits turned to very good recruits and we ended up with this stellar Sr class. I sense they love playing for this coaching staff. Future looks real solid for at least the next several years too...
 
Oldtimer said:
I was talking earlier about grad transfers which is what caused the problem. By introducing Watts into the discussion I screwed it up. It's grad transfers that have messed everything up.
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I guess I'm having trouble understanding what "problem" has been caused.

Student-athletes with remaining eligibility transferred schools for various reasons. I don't see that as a problem, I see that as an opportunity for them, one that non-athlete students have, and more generally we all have through many aspects of our lives.

And this isn't limited only to "big universities in urban areas". Wisconsin has one transfer on their roster. Eeyore said Minn has two. Unless I'm mistaken, Colgate had two. And while there are certainly other ways for players to contribute, Colgate's transfers produced more goals plus assists than either Wisconsin's or Minnesota's.

So I just don't see a "problem".
 
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#WePlayFree is an intriguing mantra, OT. Hope it can get us to the next level like 2016-17 with some NCAA wins, but 3-peat ECAC Champions isn’t bad! Am sure you’re right about the draw of the coaching staff, but other than a smaller fan base than any WCHA school, would like to think Colgate is a draw for many reasons.
 
Robertearle

The problem for me is my dislike of a system that has players getting a chance to play all or part of 5 years thus backing up recruiting and screwing up scoring records, etc. It also provides larger universities to benefit more than small whether they choose to or not. Colgate has benefitted along with others and I don't like that. One of our basketball players this year set a slew of all time records because of it and I didn't like that. So for me it's personal and if you see no problem I respect that but I like turnover in college sports both with players and coaches. It should be about giving others a chance to have the same experience not loading to secure championships. That's just me.
 
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