Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Bernie with a fleet of D9 Caterpillars can't push hard enough for Hillary to be a good candidate, but she will be the Dems' candidate.

I'll allow it.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Wow. Nice long form "* you" to those of us in the working class getting screwed over. "Don't worry, you'll get something eventually!" is not a very compelling argument.

It's more ironic that Hillary supporters are trying to talk about Bernie screwing working families and the poor. Yeah, that's exactly what he's all about.

The sad thing is these are the sorts of insipid rhetorical tactics used by Republicans in the general election to fight off progressive taxation. The Dems suggest a plan that raises $1 of tax on the middle class and $1B on the rich to save $1B of programs that directly benefit the middle class. And the GOP runs ads 24/7 saying "THEY'RE RAISING YOUR TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!11!1".

I expect it from the Republicans, but when a Democrat does it you know we're really deep into DLC World.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Wow. Nice long form "* you" to those of us in the working class getting screwed over. "Don't worry, you'll get something eventually!" is not a very compelling argument.

haven't you already learned this blather from Dems already? "you are too stupid to fend for yourself. let us take care of you. we are smart and know best!"

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

haven't you already learned this blather from Dems already? "you are too stupid to fend for yourself. let us take care of you. we are smart and know best!"

I wish I lived in a world where everyone could take care of themselves. That would be awesome.

EDIT: Fave quote of the day. Christie hits this one out of the park.

“Unlike some of these other campaigns, I’m not the boy in the bubble,” Christie charged. “OK? We know who the boy in the bubble is up here, who never answers your questions, who’s constantly scripted and controlled because he can’t answer your questions. So when Sen. Rubio gets here, when the boy in the bubble gets here, I hope you guys ask him some questions.”

 

[Jimjamesak]

haven't you already learned this blather from Dems already? "you are too stupid to fend for yourself. let us take care of you. we are smart and know best!"

I'm from the Union-Socialist wing. Our job is to smack around the ivory tower types like Kepler and the business "liberals" like Rover. It's rough at times but it's a lot better than dealing with the "Jesus said..." and "Unions? We need to get rid of them so America can compete with slave labor!" wings on the other side.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Wow. Nice long form "* you" to those of us in the working class getting screwed over. "Don't worry, you'll get something eventually!" is not a very compelling argument.

Umm....I come from the working class. Bernie Sanders raising taxes on them does nothing to help their plight. I thought he rightfully was going to raise taxes on the 1%. How did the working class who don't earn enough to even pay federal taxes end up getting socked with a +6% payroll tax increase? Kindly address that issue without the bile and vitriol.

It's more ironic that Hillary supporters are trying to talk about Bernie screwing working families and the poor. Yeah, that's exactly what he's all about.

The sad thing is these are the sorts of insipid rhetorical tactics used by Republicans in the general election to fight off progressive taxation. The Dems suggest a plan that raises $1 of tax on the middle class and $1B on the rich to save $1B of programs that directly benefit the middle class. And the GOP runs ads 24/7 saying "THEY'RE RAISING YOUR TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!11!1".

I expect it from the Republicans, but when a Democrat does it you know we're really deep into DLC World.

This again is where your hatred and anger is clouding your judgement. We need not make up scenarios. We simply need to look at what Bernie has already stated. He will raise the payroll tax that everybody pays another 6%. For the middle class (under 75K IIRC), he's raising taxes another 2% on top of that. What exactly did people making 75K or less do to deserve an extra 8% hike in their taxes??? This isn't hyperbole. It isn't made up. Its his proposal. If we are to take the man at his word, why can't he just jack up taxes on the 1% to pay for this???

 

[Jimjamesak]

It's more ironic that Hillary supporters are trying to talk about Bernie screwing working families and the poor. Yeah, that's exactly what he's all about.

The sad thing is these are the sorts of insipid rhetorical tactics used by Republicans in the general election to fight off progressive taxation. The Dems suggest a plan that raises $1 of tax on the middle class and $1B on the rich to save $1B of programs that directly benefit the middle class. And the GOP runs ads 24/7 saying "THEY'RE RAISING YOUR TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!11!1".

I expect it from the Republicans, but when a Democrat does it you know we're really deep into DLC World.

Health care, longer paternity leave, and higher minimum wage. Really hitting the working class there.

Main reason I want socialized health care, beyond the obvious, is so come contract negotiation time we don't have to spend all our energy on trying keep our health care at a reasonable level and instead can make some headway on working rules and such.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Umm....I come from the working class. Bernie Sanders raising taxes on them does nothing to help their plight. I thought he rightfully was going to raise taxes on the 1%. How did the working class who don't earn enough to even pay federal taxes end up getting socked with a +6% payroll tax increase? Kindly address that issue without the bile and vitriol.

Simple, you save a heck of a lot more on not having to pay outrageous health care premiums and deductibles like you do now (outside of a very lucky few like myself). An extra $500 in taxes upfront once a year is a lot better than $500 every month.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

I wish I lived in a world where everyone could take care of themselves. That would be awesome..

that is unpossible. humans are not robots and some folks either can't or don't care to take care of themselves.

so bring up this scenario in any debate of general policy is pointless.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

I'm from the Union-Socialist wing. Our job is to smack around the ivory tower types like Kepler and the business "liberals" like Rover. It's rough at times but it's a lot better than dealing with the "Jesus said..." and "Unions? We need to get rid of them so America can compete with slave labor!" wings on the other side.

Hey, don't beat me up, I'm shoulder-to-shoulder with you guys. I just don't want to eat with you.* And don't beat Rover up, either. He still has PTSD from Mondale, but we can nurse him through with some banalities like "third way."

We must all hang together, or we shall all hang separately.

(* Joke from The Producers)

 

[Jimjamesak]

Hey, don't beat me up, I'm shoulder-to-shoulder with you guys. I just don't want to eat with you.* And don't beat Rover up, either. He still has PTSD from Mondale, but we can nurse him through with some banalities like "third way."

We must all hang together, or we shall all hang separately.

(* Joke from The Producers)

We're the foot soldiers of the left. Just make sure you listen or you'll end up with a bloody coup.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Simple, you save a heck of a lot more on not having to pay outrageous health care premiums and deductibles like you do now (outside of a very lucky few like myself). An extra $500 in taxes upfront once a year is a lot better than $500 every month.

No you don't if you're poor as your health care is already subsidized. You're getting hit with extra taxes for the same subsidized care. That's hitting people who can least afford it, so I say again why is he taxing these people instead of the rich? It makes zero sense.

Furthermore, if you make 100K a year and Bernie hits you with an 8-10% tax hike, he's charging you 8-10K extra. For many people that's your out of pocket maximum anyway before bills are covered 100% by insurance.

My problem with Sanders plan isn't the single payer concept. Its that a guy who's whole reason for being is holding the 1% accountable is now socking everybody with a significant tax hike, not just the 1%. That's going to be a political loser if people can't clearly see the benefits. For many people including the struggling working class, its a crap shoot as to whether or not they're going to see any relief and in many cases they'll pay more. Why are these hard working folks being asked to give even more? Can't he hit up hedge fund managers a little more instead?

 

[Jimjamesak]

No you don't if you're poor as your health care is already subsidized. You're getting hit with extra taxes for the same subsidized care. That's hitting people who can least afford it, so I say again why is he taxing these people instead of the rich? It makes zero sense.

Furthermore, if you make 100K a year and Bernie hits you with an 8-10% tax hike, he's charging you 8-10K extra. For many people that's your out of pocket maximum anyway before bills are covered 100% by insurance.

My problem with Sanders plan isn't the single payer concept. Its that a guy who's whole reason for being is holding the 1% accountable is now socking everybody with a significant tax hike, not just the 1%. That's going to be a political loser if people can't clearly see the benefits. For many people including the struggling working class, its a crap shoot as to whether or not they're going to see any relief and in many cases they'll pay more. Why are these hard working folks being asked to give even more? Can't he hit up hedge fund managers a little more instead?

If you are making $100k a year you are firmly beyond working class in my mind. And then you just assume that every "poor" person is having their health care subsidized, they aren't. Part of getting single payer is that a large portion of the population is going to have to pay. But it's still a plan that puts a large portion of it on the top percentiles.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

If you are making $100k a year you are firmly beyond working class in my mind..

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Furthermore, if you make 100K a year and Bernie hits you with an 8-10% tax hike, he's charging you 8-10K extra

No. Rates are marginal. If you're making $100k and Bernie's tax hike begins at $100k you pay exactly zero extra.

 

[joecct]

If you are making $100k a year you are firmly beyond working class in my mind. And then you just assume that every "poor" person is having their health care subsidized, they aren't. Part of getting single payer is that a large portion of the population is going to have to pay. But it's still a plan that puts a large portion of it on the top percentiles.

Somebody has to pay for it.

Instead of giving a product away, wouldn't it be better if wages and jobs were sufficient that the product could be purchased?

Lack of wages hurts everyone.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

No. Rates are marginal. If you're making $100k and Bernie's tax hike begins at $100k you pay exactly zero extra.

that payroll tax increase is marginal?

 

[Jimjamesak]

The Census Bureau had the average American income at $53,657. If you're making $100k a year, you're doing just fine.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Somebody has to pay for it.

Instead of giving a product away, wouldn't it be better if wages and jobs were sufficient that the product could be purchased?

Lack of wages hurts everyone.

Health care is not a product. It's a basic human right.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

We're the foot soldiers of the left. Just make sure you listen or you'll end up with a bloody coup.

You're the crew, I'm the playwright. Rover's the producer. Just tell him what he wants to hear and invite him to cast parties and have the low self-esteem actresses (the candidates) blow him so he keeps writing the checks. Meanwhile you'll screw his daughters behind the sets while the director and I make sure the play's good.