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Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

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Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

mookie1995 said:
that payroll tax increase is marginal?
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No, if you're talking about a payroll tax, that begins at zero and hits all income.

I don't know why Bernie would increase payroll tax, however, when he can accomplish the same thing and not hit the working class by simply uncapping it or, better still, ending the payroll tax and raising higher bracket rates to pay for it.

This is Sanders' page for how he pays for stuff. This is the link to the payroll tax increase.

For example, the average woman worker earning the median weekly wage would only need to contribute $1.38 per week (for a total of $72.04 per year) into the program, and even the highest wage earners would have a maximum contribution of $4.36 per week, or $227.40 per year.
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The 6 percent increase appears to come from this proposal:

... a 6.2 percent income-based health care premium paid by employers, a 2.2 percent income-based premium paid by households, progressive income tax rates, taxing capital gains and dividends the same as income from work, limiting tax deductions for the rich, adjusting the estate tax, and savings from health tax expenditures.
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Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Kepler said:
No, if you're talking about a payroll tax, that begins at zero and hits all income.
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No it doesn't. The Medicare tax I believe does but SS stops drawing after the first ~hundred grand earned. It is the ultimate regressive tax.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

ScoobyDoo said:
No it doesn't. The Medicare tax I believe does but SS stops drawing after the first ~hundred grand earned. It is the ultimate regressive tax.
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Sigh. I know, I know, that's why I was talking about uncapping it. By all I just meant "starts at 0".

The sine qua non of tax reform is to uncap the payroll tax. The way it is done right now is insane.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Seems to me that we could simplify the tax code and also make it far more effective, while also fighting back plutocracy, by eliminating all deductions, exemptions, etc. and just indexing the brackets to the median American wage, x:

0 to x: 0%
x to 2x: 5%
2x to 3x: 10%
...
19x and above: 90%

If wealthy people want to keep more of their money they will work like hell to raise the median rate.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

See, THIS is a productive discussion! Finally!

Yes, my issue which I think some of you are coming around to understanding is the payroll tax and middle class tax increases. I don't understand why he's hitting these people with an increase. He can't find more money at the top end? This proposal is odd because it flies in the face of what his campaign seems to be trying to accomplish.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Kepler said:
Seems to me that we could simplify the tax code and also make it far more effective, while also fighting back plutocracy, by eliminating all deductions, exemptions, etc. and just indexing the brackets to the median American wage, x:

0 to x: 0%
x to 2x: 5%
2x to 3x: 10%
...
19x and above: 90%

If wealthy people want to keep more of their money they will work like hell to raise the median rate.
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Now that is freaking awesome. You're hired, or have my vote, or whatever. Get er done.

Rover said:
See, THIS is a productive discussion! Finally!

Yes, my issue which I think some of you are coming around to understanding is the payroll tax and middle class tax increases. I don't understand why he's hitting these people with an increase. He can't find more money at the top end? This proposal is odd because it flies in the face of what his campaign seems to be trying to accomplish.
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No, I think you miss the piece where he eliminates the payroll tax altogether and replaces it with the new proposal. That's how he gets zero increase.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

all those 'add on' taxes need to be scrapped and rolled into the one TAX. as we know there is no "lock box" for ss. it is a transfer pmt. and that's fine. but let's be adult and call a spade a spade.


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also we need to tax all 'income'. dividends are double taxed? so what! cost of business.

mtge interest should be deducted only on the lowest value home (for those with multiple homes :rolleyes: ) with no limit.

should only be able to deduct property taxes on the lowest value home too.

there should be a limit on salaries that businesses can deduct from taxable income (200k?). anything you pay over that to your employees is no longer shielded from tax.

--i could go on and on.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Kepler said:
Seems to me that we could simplify the tax code and also make it far more effective, while also fighting back plutocracy, by eliminating all deductions, exemptions, etc. and just indexing the brackets to the median American wage, x:

0 to x: 0%
x to 2x: 5%
2x to 3x: 10%
...
19x and above: 90%

If wealthy people want to keep more of their money they will work like hell to raise the median rate.
Click to expand...

i saw a chart of bernie's proposed tax rates a couple weeks ago. seems if you make $480k you get a tax break :D

who does bern know who makes that who deserves a break :eek:
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

mookie1995 said:
all those 'add on' taxes need to be scrapped and rolled into the one TAX. as we know there is no "lock box" for ss. it is a transfer pmt. and that's fine. but let's be adult and call a spade a spade.


____________________________________________________
also we need to tax all 'income'. dividends are double taxed? so what! cost of business.

mtge interest should be taxed only on the lowest value home (for those with multiple homes :rolleyes: ) with no limit.

should only be able to deduct property taxes on the lowest value home too.

there should be a limit on salaries that businesses can deduct from taxable income (200k?). anything you pay over that to your employees is no longer shielded from tax.

--i could go on and on.
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Same with keeping the cost of wars off the books. Everything should just be paid for out of the general fund, all costs declared, all funds approved by Congress. Expenditures with large future components (wars in particular, but also infrastructure with significant O&M) should have the lifetime cost of the project amortized and factored into present budgets, front-loaded as much as possible.

I'm sure huge businesses do accounting like this all the time. Who does P&G use to figure out all its future capital investment and acquisitions? Find those guys.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
Depends are where you're living and whether or not you're contributing to the continuation of the species. If either of those are happening then 100K might be nothing.
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As someone who is married, has contributed to the continuation of the species, lives in an area with a high cost of living, and makes well under $100k, I will attempt to summon some sympathy for those poor souls scraping by on $100k. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Jimjamesak said:
Health care is not a product. It's a basic human right.
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B.S. It's a product, and a relatively new one at that. You can't call something a basic human right that was effectively invented in the last 100 years. That's going to be like someone claiming electrical power in your home is a basic human right.

Basic human rights are things like the right to free expression, the right to personal liberty, the right to move or travel about, the right to practice your choice of religion or to marry who you'd like.

Sex is a human right, and I don't see the government passing that out. Penicillin shots are products.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

SJHovey said:
B.S. It's a product, and a relatively new one at that. You can't call something a basic human right that was effectively invented in the last 100 years. That's going to be like someone claiming electrical power in your home is a basic human right.

Basic human rights are things like the right to free expression, the right to personal liberty, the right to move or travel about, the right to practice your choice of religion or to marry who you'd like.

Sex is a human right, and I don't see the government passing that out. Penicillin shots are products.
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You're funny.

Being able to marry who'd you'd like is a relatively new concept. Sex has been outlawed, controlled, banned, and shamed for centuries.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

The product/right dichotomy is unhelpful. After all, I think we would agree that food is a basic human right, but we also have food companies. We just also make sure that everyone can eat.

Why not a universal health care system for those who can't afford user fees, and then luxury services on top of that? Not to mention that there can still be private companies that compete for contracts to provide basic services, with an award fee that includes a sufficient profit to make the business worthwhile. That's how our military sector works.

Healthcare can easily survive as a lucrative, hybridized sector. I don't see Lock-Mar going broke.
 
SJHovey said:
B.S. It's a product, and a relatively new one at that. You can't call something a basic human right that was effectively invented in the last 100 years. That's going to be like someone claiming electrical power in your home is a basic human right.

Basic human rights are things like the right to free expression, the right to personal liberty, the right to move or travel about, the right to practice your choice of religion or to marry who you'd like.

Sex is a human right, and I don't see the government passing that out. Penicillin shots are products.
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So your solution is "let them die"?

How about the right to life? You know, that thing that comes before liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Kepler said:
Seems to me that we could simplify the tax code and also make it far more effective, while also fighting back plutocracy, by eliminating all deductions, exemptions, etc. and just indexing the brackets to the median American wage, x:

0 to x: 0%
x to 2x: 5%
2x to 3x: 10%
...
19x and above: 90%

If wealthy people want to keep more of their money they will work like hell to raise the median rate.
Click to expand...

If I am making 19x, you can be sure I have employed an army of accountants and lawyers to ensure that my effective rate is a heck of a lot lower than 90%. Or, I move to some country that does not tax me at 90% and remove my $$ from the US economy.

The trick is you want the money, but you have to make it a reasonable theft, not grand theft government.
 
joecct said:
If I am making 19x, you can be sure I have employed an army of accountants and lawyers to ensure that my effective rate is a heck of a lot lower than 90%. Or, I move to some country that does not tax me at 90% and remove my $$ from the US economy.

The trick is you want the money, but you have to make it a reasonable theft, not grand theft government.
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Option B is why all US Citizens have to pay tax regardless of residence. I'd suggest moving to some place with no extradition treaty.
 
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