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Campaign 2016 Part XXV: Fin

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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXV: Fin

Comparisons of Reagan and Trump are ridiculous, however there is one parallel. This song helped get me through Reagan and it's just as applicable now.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXV: Fin

joecct said:
How do you pronounce Toronto?
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We had two Canadians in my freshman dorm. The Quebecois said "Trona," kind of like the dwarf alien in ST:TOS "tronya" but without the y. The Newfie said "Tyrana," like the first two syllables of tyrannosaurus.

BTW they were both cute nerdy girls with a certain morally casual attitude, and to this day that's my impression of Canada. Good country.

Jesus, now they're 50.

Jesus, now I'm 50.

How the f-ck did this happen?
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXV: Fin

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
[applause]

You nailed it.

I can empathize enough to say that of those 56 million, quite a few don't really support the bigotry and misogyny. They voted out of misguided beliefs in his economic potential or in some sort of false equivalency between his and Hillary's shortcomings.

So maybe they weren't all giving a big F U to every Latino, Muslim, African American, woman, disabled person, etc.

Maybe.

But they sure as **** gave tacit support to that monster by thinking that those traits don't disqualify him from representing this country in any capacity. And that's just as bad.
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Fair enough, and I agree Handy's post is a good one. Let me offer a look at it from a slightly different vantage point.

Four months ago I sat here mortified. Not two days ago, four months ago.

Wait. THIS IS MY GUY???? W T F. No way. I didn't vote for this azz clown. What idiot voted for him??

But a large segment of the political poster group here at USCHO was almost gleeful in proclaiming him "my guy." Even though I had not, and never would vote for the man. Even though I personally dislike the man and despise much of what he stands for. "He's yours" many of you told me. "You belong to the racist, sexist, xenophobic group from which he sprung, so he's yours." "Own him" was what I was instructed to do.

Well, I've got news for you. Now we all belong to the same group from which this guy sprung. It's called the American public. Some of you may choose to paint with a broad brush and declare that group racist, sexist and xenophobic. I choose to take a more optimistic outlook and believe that most aren't. But we're all in it. Even though many of us dislike this guy, did not vote for this guy, may even hate this guy, we "own" this guy together.

Welcome to the rabbit hole. Make yourself at home.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXV: Fin

burd said:
Good man, Handy.

I like to hope this is the last convulsive attempt of a dying majority to protect itself.
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Corpses sometimes fart on the mortician's table.

Still stinks, though.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXV: Fin

I accept the results. I don't agree with the demonstrations (too late now). What I can't square or never square is we elected a blatant racist to the White House. And right after Barack Obama.

Mitch McConnell has always wanted his Presidency erased. And that's exactly what they will go to work on on Jan. 20th. I've listened to enough of what the agenda is to know that that's exactly what will happen.

My suggestion for all my liberal friends is to start getting used to living in a Red country. Maybe move to a safe blue state (Cali, Washington) if you can. It'll be impossible for me to do that but I will be happy for anyone that does. Not sure how much the blue state protection can work against the Red Sea of Ryan/Trump/Pence. We'll have to see.

And remember my fellow liberals. Science died yesterday. It's dead. Big money and big power has overshadowed it for a number of years now. And now it's in full eclipse.

Me? I'm going to put my head down and thank my lucky stars I'm white and a man.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXV: Fin

SJHovey said:
Fair enough, and I agree Handy's post is a good one. Let me offer a look at it from a slightly different vantage point.

Four months ago I sat here mortified. Not two days ago, four months ago.

Wait. THIS IS MY GUY???? W T F. No way. I didn't vote for this azz clown. What idiot voted for him??

But a large segment of the political poster group here at USCHO was almost gleeful in proclaiming him "my guy." Even though I had not, and never would vote for the man. Even though I personally dislike the man and despise much of what he stands for. "He's yours" many of you told me. "You belong to the racist, sexist, xenophobic group from which he sprung, so he's yours." "Own him" was what I was instructed to do.

Well, I've got news for you. Now we all belong to the same group from which this guy sprung. It's called the American public. Some of you may choose to paint with a broad brush and declare that group racist, sexist and xenophobic. I choose to take a more optimistic outlook and believe that most aren't. But we're all in it. Even though many of us dislike this guy, did not vote for this guy, may even hate this guy, we "own" this guy together.

Welcome to the rabbit hole. Make yourself at home.
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I'll give you a half point.

Your equivalence misses that Republicans owned Trump because even though he was impolite about it he ran on the same themes the GOP has been using as wedge issues for decades: white resentment, xenophobia, sexism. They owned him because they pumped their followers full of that poison because it was a convenient way to win elections. The worm turned, the crows (crows?*) came home to roost.

We don't own Trump that way. We didn't set the table for him. We fought against everything he is long before he came around.

The half point you get is that we now all own Trump in the sense that all Americans are now boned. Whatever other hateful, moronic things he is, he is now also relevant. He's a permanent sh-t stain on America. And we all have to deal with it. The left has to scrub it but the right has to lick it.

Both are jobs are terrible and we will always blame you for taking the sh-t in the first place.

But in the end, our job is merely difficult.

Your job is degrading.


* Chickens, that's right.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXV: Fin

Kepler said:
I'll give you a half point.

Your equivalence misses that Republicans owned Trump because even though he was impolite about it he ran on the same themes the GOP has been using as wedge issues for decades: white resentment, xenophobia, sexism. They owned him because they pumped their followers full of that poison because it was a convenient way to win elections. The worm turned, the crows (crows?*) came home to roost.

We don't own Trump that way. We didn't set the table for him. We fought against everything he is long before he came around.

The half point you get is that we now all own Trump in the sense that all Americans are now boned. Whatever other hateful, moronic things he is, he is now also relevant. He's a permanent sh-t stain on America. And we all have to deal with it. The left has to scrub it but the right has to lick it.

Both are jobs are terrible and we will always blame you for taking the sh-t in the first place.

But in the end, our job is merely difficult.

Your job is degrading.


* Chickens, that's right.
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We'll just have to agree to disagree. You're saying America didn't set the table for Trump? I disagree.

Trump emerged from a tiny group of voters lodged in the Republican Party, maybe 10 million tops. That was enough snow to get the ball moving. Not enough people came out to oppose him in the Republican primaries to stop the momentum. You want to blame those people.

But the same thing happened in the general election. There were more than enough votes out there to knock him off. I don't think even even got what Romney did.

You can't stop the snowball half way through and claim they own him. Trump parlayed that 10 million by doubling down every step of the way until he had enough to win a general election.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXV: Fin

SJHovey said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree. You're saying America didn't set the table for Trump? I disagree.

Trump emerged from a tiny group of voters lodged in the Republican Party, maybe 10 million tops. That was enough snow to get the ball moving. Not enough people came out to oppose him in the Republican primaries to stop the momentum. You want to blame those people.

But the same thing happened in the general election. There were more than enough votes out there to knock him off. I don't think even even got what Romney did.

You can't stop the snowball half way through and claim they own him. Trump parlayed that 10 million by doubling down every step of the way until he had enough to win a general election.
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I can see a million things the right could have done to stop Trump. I see nothing the left could have done.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXV: Fin

I have vague recollections of a private conversation with PCM from 2008. (Who else 'members PCM? I 'member PCM.)

Pendulums go back and forth to stability (less and less motion); the moves get smaller with time and end in the middle. An anti-pendulum starts in the middle and over swings more and more back and forth, further left and further right. The moves are small at first but get larger and larger until something unfortunate or untoward happens and the pendulum has to be reset.

I said American politics is an anti-pendulum.

The last major over swing was Nixon. Ford was the reset. Carter was the first minor move leading to return motion of Reagan/Bush* 41 which begat Clinton. Clinton begat Bush 43. Bush begat Obama. And now we have Trump.

Either Trump will cause a major reset (ala Tricky Dick) or look for Elizabeth Warren (or someone further politically left) after Trump.


*Reagan and Bush 41 were mild-sauce compared to Bush 43's policies (see Patriot Act).
 
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SJHovey said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree. You're saying America didn't set the table for Trump? I disagree.

Trump emerged from a tiny group of voters lodged in the Republican Party, maybe 10 million tops. That was enough snow to get the ball moving. Not enough people came out to oppose him in the Republican primaries to stop the momentum. You want to blame those people.

But the same thing happened in the general election. There were more than enough votes out there to knock him off. I don't think even even got what Romney did.

You can't stop the snowball half way through and claim they own him. Trump parlayed that 10 million by doubling down every step of the way until he had enough to win a general election.
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It's still a question of who voted for him, either BECAUSE of his horrible qualities or because people didn't think that was enough to disqualify him.

I haven't paid enough attention to say that you are among those who did, but 56 million people are.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXV: Fin

Kepler said:
I see nothing the left could have done.
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Show up in Obama-esque numbers at the polls? Yeah? Maybe?

Could it be that the true Left (Bernies) saw Mrs. Clinton somehow go from $0 in 2000 to $111 million net worth in sixteen years of speaking and public service and decided they couldn't stomach that? She does look an awful lot like what the Occupy Movement railed against. Trump is an evil billionaire; that's who the Left expects to vote against. But can the Left vote for, actually endorse by vote, something that looks an awful lot like a millionaire elite with the support of Wall Street banks?

Could the Left have put up something more likable than Trump? Think about that --> Trump is unlikable and only wins against something less likable, and Trump won.

Who. Shows. Up.
 
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The Sicatoka said:
Like I claimed when Trump and Ted Cruz made "nice-nice" (which really helped Trump with Evangelicals apparently, look at the stats) I'm pretty sure the quid-pro-quo was if Trump wins Cruz gets nominated for Scalia's spot.

Recap: It's the ultimate dealmaker's win-win-win: Trump gets 1600 Penn; Cruz gets robe; Senate Rs no longer have to look at Cruz. ;)
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Ted Cruz would lose that nomination 98-1 (98-2 if he could vote for himself). He'd get Lee's vote and that's it.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXV: Fin

Congressional Republicans, stunned by their own good, if complicated, fortune, said on Wednesday that they would move quickly next year on an agenda that merges with President-elect Donald J. Trump’s, repealing the Affordable Care Act, cutting taxes, confirming conservative judges, shrinking government programs and rolling back regulations.
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And there it is. Their 8 years of cock blocking worked. Congratulations.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/u...paul-ryan.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0
 
Kepler said:
I can see a million things the right could have done to stop Trump. I see nothing the left could have done.
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Turn out to vote. While a million or so more late votes will roll in, Trump essentially got Romney's vote total, while Clinton is about 7 million shy of Obama.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXV: Fin

joecct said:
If I was a Democrat, I'd be worried. Your farm system is eroding.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...?hpid=hp_hp-bignews4_democrats:homepage/story
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If there's one thing we need to do, it's recruit new people with new ideas. That isn't happening on the right, so this is our big chance to completely own the next generation.

The Clintons and the Clintonistas need to go away. The Third Way, triangulating, DLC Democrats need to be pushed out. Even if what replaces them is not "leftist," what replaces them needs to address current and future issues, not the past. Liberalism is about standing up to the strong and the intolerant. We have no idea how to do that in this world, your world.

Nod and be respectful to everyone over 40, ignore us, and build the new party. I can't help you, I'm part of the old. Do your thing and I'll support you.
 
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