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Campaign 2016 Part XIX: Escape from the Planet of Debates

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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIX: Escape from the Planet of Debates

I'd like to think I beat Howard Dean to that line of thinking...

(Didn't I post that line of thinking last thread? Or early this thread.)
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIX: Escape from the Planet of Debates

Josh Gondelman
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@joshgondelman

A lot of people are saying Trump is on coke, which is ridiculous. People on cocaine love to talk about their specific plans for the future.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIX: Escape from the Planet of Debates

The Sicatoka said:
The numbers just don't work any more.
Click to expand...

Social Security is fairly simply solved. Eliminate the wage cutoff on the tax side and raise the retirement age another year or two to 68 or 69, and it's solvent for the next 150 years. Alternatively, change nothing, and in 20 years you'll have to cut payments to about 80% of current levels, but it'll still be solvent at that point.

Medicare is the big spiraling cost with no end in sight, because retirees live longer and use more medical care than they used to 9simply because we now have said medical care).
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIX: Escape from the Planet of Debates

unofan said:
Social Security is fairly simply solved. Eliminate the wage cutoff on the tax side and raise the retirement age another year or two to 68 or 69, and it's solvent for the next 150 years. Alternatively, change nothing, and in 20 years you'll have to cut payments to about 80% of current levels, but it'll still be solvent at that point.

Medicare is the big spiraling cost with no end in sight, because retirees live longer and use more medical care than they used to 9simply because we now have said medical care).
Click to expand...

Medicare costs spiral because we don't know when to tell people "no". Why is a person with terminal brain cancer with less than 6 months to live offered every single treatment for the pneumonia he's developed, including a tracheostomy when he can't be taken off the ventilator and a PEG tube to feed him. How does this improve his quality of life for his time remaining? But we do it because we can, and when families aren't ready to let go, we will just prolong the suffering.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIX: Escape from the Planet of Debates

bostonewe said:
Medicare costs spiral because we don't know when to tell people "no". Why is a person with terminal brain cancer with less than 6 months to live offered every single treatment for the pneumonia he's developed, including a tracheostomy when he can't be taken off the ventilator and a PEG tube to feed him. How does this improve his quality of life for his time remaining? But we do it because we can, and when families aren't ready to let go, we will just prolong the suffering.
Click to expand...

Devil's advocate here, and I am not trying to rain on any parade...and there are good points both ways...

Miracles do happen. To give up on a life because of probability (unless the patient has stated so in a living will)? I have a bit of trouble with that.
 
Brenthoven said:
Devil's advocate here, and I am not trying to rain on any parade...and there are good points both ways...

Miracles do happen. To give up on a life because of probability (unless the patient has stated so in a living will)? I have a bit of trouble with that.
Click to expand...

The book "Being Mortal" is a very interesting look at the balance between quality of life and quantity of life. Far to often people give up on quality of life to chase quantity of life, oddly enough the one group that doesn't: the doctors themselves. Why? Because they experience the impact of life prolonging treatments that do nothing to help the patient actually live.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIX: Escape from the Planet of Debates

Didn't watch... did they actually talk about anything other than attacking each other?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIX: Escape from the Planet of Debates

Taking a look at post-debate polls...

Right wing outlets saying Trump won in a landslide.
Left wing outlets saying Rodham won in a landslide.
Other outlets were close either way.

What can be learned from this: The country is as polarised as ever. Civil War II, here we come...
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIX: Escape from the Planet of Debates

I'd like to think I got some good lines off last night.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIX: Escape from the Planet of Debates

FlagDUDE08 said:
Taking a look at post-debate polls...

Right wing outlets saying Trump won in a landslide.
Left wing outlets saying Rodham won in a landslide.
Other outlets were close either way.

What can be learned from this: The country is as polarised as ever. Civil War II, here we come...
Click to expand...

If only we could get people to obtain their information from reliable sources.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIX: Escape from the Planet of Debates

The CBS Radio analysis (a UVa prof) said this morning there weren't 1000 Trump supporters converted to Clinton, nor 1000 Clinton supporters converted to Trump after last night. Part was raw polarization; part was that neither scored a catastrophic blow.
 
The Sicatoka said:
The CBS Radio analysis (a UVa prof) said this morning there weren't 1000 Trump supporters converted to Clinton, nor 1000 Clinton supporters converted to Trump after last night. Part was raw polarization; part was that neither scored a catastrophic blow.
Click to expand...

Heard the same on the drive in this AM.

But, it's something we all knew. You could put a water cooler and a refrigerator on the stage last night, slap a D and an R on them, and they'd poll the same. The debates aren't going to sway those dead set for their candidate.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIX: Escape from the Planet of Debates

The Sicatoka said:
The CBS Radio analysis (a UVa prof) said this morning there weren't 1000 Trump supporters converted to Clinton, nor 1000 Clinton supporters converted to Trump after last night. Part was raw polarization; part was that neither scored a catastrophic blow.
Click to expand...

See that analysis is offbase because this isnt about either side winning votes from the other, it is about the undecideds. (especially for Hillary) Whoever gains the most there is who is going to win the election and going by what I read I dont see any way Drumpf did it. Usually undecideds arent lazy (if they ever plan to vote that is) they pay attention to what people say and how they act.

Hillary needs to continue to court the undecideds because she is more likely to take them. She needs the populace engaged because if they Drumpf has no chance.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIX: Escape from the Planet of Debates

Results of my totally anecdotal debate poll of Mrs. McBadgerton:

A bit about her: Mrs. McBadgerton is largely apolitical and we seldom if ever discuss politics between us, but last night she agreed to sit and watch the debate. She is <40, a mother of a young teen, has a PhD, works in an international business, listens to NPR on her commute, had a Midwestern upbringing, and voted Obama at least once.

We watched with little discussion and I interviewed her with open questions post debate to get her take, and... well... let's just skip to the results:

She preferred... Trump!?! :eek:
 
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