Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Kep,

If Hillary wins there is about 0% chance she doesnt run as the candidate in 4 years assuming she is alive and not in jail It is beyond wishful thinking to feel otherwise.

**** it. Let me dream, will ya?!

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Yet, he was reelected 3 times because of the recall. Purple state my ***.

I still don't understand how this happened. KS I get. Maybe even MI. But WI? Come on, son!

 

[joecct]

Hey we elected TPaw twice did we not? Sometimes it takes a while to learn. Thankfully I dont see Madison and Milwaukee voting for Drumpf so their idiocy will be kept to the state level

And Jesse Ventura once.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Hey we elected TPaw twice did we not? Sometimes it takes a while to learn. Thankfully I dont see Madison and Milwaukee voting for Drumpf so their idiocy will be kept to the state level

We also filled the Senate the House with Bat **** Right Wing Nuts. Then we rejected what they ran on when they tried to pass it.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

**** it. Let me dream, will ya?!

Better to accept the truth so you dont spend 4 years hoping against hope only to have to realize that Pantsuits rule the day

 

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Rover, Kep, et al

I think Kep is realizing that a vast % of the electorate is mad as heck and they're not taking it any more.

My pension check, IRA, and other investments are not keeping up with inflation. Heck my county wants to raise the property tax 8.7% next year. My pension check may go up 1%.

Taxpayers are not feed troughs for the politicians.

One candidate is a billionaire and the other one is fast approaching 3 comma asset value and they're trying to make hay with the working stiffs? Heck, they probably both buy their wine and cheese from the same store in Manhattan!

Nope, something weird is going to happen on election night, or we'll watch from high above Cuyahoga's waters the beginnings of the 2nd American Revolution.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Better to accept the truth so you dont spend 4 years hoping against hope only to have to realize that Pantsuits rule the day

I'm working my way through the progression.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Nice.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Better to accept the truth so you dont spend 4 years hoping against hope only to have to realize that Pantsuits rule the day

We can only hope Kep keeps stepping up and taking it like a man after Hillary keeps rolling towards the nomination, while his candidate fumbles around like a doddy old man who's run out of Depends. If he don't mind taking it, I don't mind dishin' it out.

joecct, there IS no revolution. The candidates each party is choosing fit with where each party is ideologically. That's sorta how its supposed to work. The GOP isn't John Kasich. It hasn't been for 20 years. Dubya could end up being the last GOP candidate who could paper over the working class/country club split between the party. Donald Trump is not a revolutionary. He's just saying out loud what right wingers have been too afraid to say previously - that they want to go back to a White Privilege country. That's been the undercurrent of conservatism since the Civil Rights Era.

For the Dems, Sanders simply put is nuts. He's a career backbencher who's shown no ability to help progressives get elected anywhere as best I can tell, nor does any liberal legislation bear his name even though he's served in instances where the Dems controlled all levers of power. His ideas sound good until you see how he plans to pay for them, which is massive tax hikes on EVERYBODY! No. Thanks.

 

[BassAle]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Taxpayers are not feed troughs for the politicians.

Boo hoo I have to pay for **** that I benefit from!!
Over half of my property taxes go to education. I think that's pretty important. I also think having nice roads, safe bridges, and public safety are important too. I don't think my taxes should go down at all. Property or income.

You want lower taxes, move to Somalia.

Meanwhile http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/u...ass-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?_r=0

 

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

For the Dems, Sanders simply put is nuts. He's a career backbencher who's shown no ability to help progressives get elected anywhere as best I can tell, nor does any liberal legislation bear his name even though he's served in instances where the Dems controlled all levers of power. His ideas sound good until you see how he plans to pay for them, which is massive tax hikes on EVERYBODY! No. Thanks.

I saw a comparison somewhere of the legislative achievements of Sanders and Clinton. Sanders had an endless laundry list of accomplishments relating to civil rights, federal infrastructure, education funding, finance, economics, foreign policy, health care & whatnot. Hillary had like one thing, which I think was changing the name of some road in Arkansas to "Hillary Hwy." I did not fact check it, but it sounds more believable than Rover's usual hysteria panic.

 

[BassAle]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

His ideas sound good until you see how he plans to pay for them, which is massive tax hikes on EVERYBODY! No. Thanks.

I'm a middle class family of 3, with an income of around 150K. I've looked at his proposed progressive tax rates, and my income tax rate does not appear to change under his budget proposal. Yes, I would pay an additional payroll tax for single payer heathcare. But guess what, I already have money taken out of my paycheck for insurance, so I wouldn't call that a massive hike.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

I'm a middle class family of 3, with an income of around 150K. I've looked at his proposed progressive tax rates, and my income tax rate does not appear to change under his budget proposal. Yes, I would pay an additional payroll tax for single payer heathcare. But guess what, I already have money taken out of my paycheck for insurance, so I wouldn't call that a massive hike.

Rover is sadly using the classic Republican dodge. When a proposal suggests raising taxes on millionaires by 10% and the middle class by 1%, they yell HE'S RAISING TAXES THROUGH THE ROOF ON EVERYBODY!!! and then run around screaming. Never mind the fact that by restoring true progressive tax rates we can finally close the deficits which are being paid for by the middle class in a hundred indirect ways.

If this is what the Clintonistas are reduced to in order to scrape out a win, it's a bad sign of what they'll justify once they are in power. It's many things, but it isn't liberalism.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Cleveland to be born?

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

I saw a comparison somewhere of the legislative achievements of Sanders and Clinton. Sanders had an endless laundry list of accomplishments relating to civil rights, federal infrastructure, education funding, finance, economics, foreign policy, health care & whatnot. Hillary had like one thing, which I think was changing the name of some road in Arkansas to "Hillary Hwy." I did not fact check it, but it sounds more believable than Rover's usual hysteria panic.

Calling your bluff geezer. Post what you saw.

Kep and Bass, sorry to point out facts, but unless you dispute that this is in Sanders plan:

Payroll Tax Changes
•Creates a new 6.2 percent employer-side payroll tax on all wages and salaries. This is referred to by the campaign as an “income-based health care premium paid by employers.”
•Creates a 0.2 percent employer-side payroll tax and 0.2 percent employee-side payroll tax, to fund a new family and medical leave trust fund.

•Creates a new 2.2 percent “income-based [health care] premium paid by households.” This is equivalent to increasing all tax bracket rates by 2.2 percentage points,

So, in the land we call "reality" Sanders is dinging you 6.2+.2+.2+2.2 or an extra 8.8% in taxes on everybody. Not 1% as Kep just lied about. Not nothing for a family of 3 making 150K as Bass Ale insinuated. Sometimes you guys need to figure out exactly what you're voting for. Bass you're going to get dinged another 13K in taxes under Bernie. Do you pay 13K a year for healthcare all in? Every year from now until age 65? The only time I came close to this was when my wife gave birth to twins.

Now, for someone pulling in 150K, maybe you can eat that and make the tradeoff. But, what if you're making 50K? An extra 8.8% of your income is 4.5K. That is on top of the taxes you're already paying.

Small wonder Hillary has won a whopping 2.5M MORE votes than Sanders. What if you threw a revolution and nobody came?

 

[busterman62]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Calling your bluff geezer. Post what you saw.

Kep and Bass, sorry to point out facts, but unless you dispute that this is in Sanders plan:

Payroll Tax Changes
•Creates a new 6.2 percent employer-side payroll tax on all wages and salaries. This is referred to by the campaign as an “income-based health care premium paid by employers.”
•Creates a 0.2 percent employer-side payroll tax and 0.2 percent employee-side payroll tax, to fund a new family and medical leave trust fund.

•Creates a new 2.2 percent “income-based [health care] premium paid by households.” This is equivalent to increasing all tax bracket rates by 2.2 percentage points,

So, in the land we call "reality" Sanders is dinging you 6.2+.2+.2+2.2 or an extra 8.8% in taxes on everybody. Not 1% as Kep just lied about. Not nothing for a family of 3 making 150K as Bass Ale insinuated. Sometimes you guys need to figure out exactly what you're voting for. Bass you're going to get dinged another 13K in taxes under Bernie. Do you pay 13K a year for healthcare all in? Every year from now until age 65? The only time I came close to this was when my wife gave birth to twins.

Now, for someone pulling in 150K, maybe you can eat that and make the tradeoff. But, what if you're making 50K? An extra 8.8% of your income is 4.5K. That is on top of the taxes you're already paying.

Small wonder Hillary has won a whopping 2.5M MORE votes than Sanders. What if you threw a revolution and nobody came?

Ummmmm. You might want to recalculate here.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Refutation.

But nice try.

Lies like Rover just posted are why for years I have been asking the Democrats to explicitly attach to every proposal the exclusion of the first $x from all taxation, where x is the median income (currently, $51k).

Nobody arguing honestly will accuse Bernie Sanders of trying to shift an intolerable tax burden onto the poor and lower middle class. To with one breath fulminate against the Far Left and with the next argue that they're trying to sneak through taxes against low income people is not just self-contradictory, but Atwateresque.

The triangulation of the DLC by Bill Clinton was necessary in the 90s in the teeth of the "don't worry be happy" mindlessness of Reaganism. Now that Reaganism has been exposed as irresponsible and hopelessly corrupt, we can and should demand more from the Democratic party when it comes to economic justice. Tepid, Wall Street-approved weak sauce by the Dems got us into this mess. An intelligent, incisive FDR-esque remaking of our fiscal priorities right in the face of the plutocratic parasites is what is needed. Not just that, but it will be supported, because people are, rightfully, mad as hell as they're not gonna take it anymore.

The game's up, Rove. Cash out your winnings.

And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

 

[BassAle]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Calling your bluff geezer. Post what you saw.

Kep and Bass, sorry to point out facts, but unless you dispute that this is in Sanders plan:

Payroll Tax Changes
•Creates a new 6.2 percent employer-side payroll tax on all wages and salaries. This is referred to by the campaign as an “income-based health care premium paid by employers.”
•Creates a 0.2 percent employer-side payroll tax and 0.2 percent employee-side payroll tax, to fund a new family and medical leave trust fund.

•Creates a new 2.2 percent “income-based [health care] premium paid by households.” This is equivalent to increasing all tax bracket rates by 2.2 percentage points,

So, in the land we call "reality" Sanders is dinging you 6.2+.2+.2+2.2 or an extra 8.8% in taxes on everybody. Not 1% as Kep just lied about. Not nothing for a family of 3 making 150K as Bass Ale insinuated. Sometimes you guys need to figure out exactly what you're voting for. Bass you're going to get dinged another 13K in taxes under Bernie. Do you pay 13K a year for healthcare all in? Every year from now until age 65? The only time I came close to this was when my wife gave birth to twins.

Now, for someone pulling in 150K, maybe you can eat that and make the tradeoff. But, what if you're making 50K? An extra 8.8% of your income is 4.5K. That is on top of the taxes you're already paying.

Small wonder Hillary has won a whopping 2.5M MORE votes than Sanders. What if you threw a revolution and nobody came?

what is wrong with you? You just admitted 6.4 percent of that is employer-side. Are they going to pass that on to me? Unlikely since they're ALREADY PAYING MORE THAN THAT FOR MY INSURANCE NOW. And I'm paying almost $4K/yr in insurance premiums for a family of 3. That's after my employer pays 80% of the premium.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

I'm not sure the Cleveland Screw Job is a "shadow campaign" when EVERYBODY knows it's coming...

... South Dakota is in an unusual position because over the weekend it became one of the first states to name its full slate of convention delegates — a move that immediately plunged it into a three-way tug of war among the remaining presidential candidates.

Trump and Cruz opted against sending their own envoys into the South Dakota fray. But all three campaigns have been mobilizing staff and preparing for a nationwide organizing battle to ensure that their own loyalists win elections to become delegates to the convention. The campaign with the most success in this shadow campaign is likely to have an edge should the national convention become a once-in-a-generation floor fight among delegates.

For now, Cruz can take heart that even if South Dakota votes for Trump in June — binding nearly all 29 delegates to back the New York billionaire on the first ballot — the delegates signaled they're with him at heart.

"I have a preference for Cruz," said Matt Bruner, a Republican precinct chairman from White. "Right now, seeing Kasich in there — Kasich is in the race for nothing other than a hope and prayer. ... It's very, very much a Cruz delegation."

The Cruz edge in South Dakota could be significant if Trump scores a primary win there on June 7. State party procedures require 26 of the state's 29 delegates to vote for the popular vote-getter on the first ballot in Cleveland. All 26 delegates signed a legally binding oath to fulfill that responsibility on Saturday. But Trump could find himself in a hole in a contested convention if members of the South Dakota delegation — and others around the country — begin abandoning him.

 

[busterman62]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

It's fantastic. This line alone is tremendous:

Kep,
One of the problems with intermittent viewing is when a long previous post perks one's interest. As such I'll preface this question with two statements: A) Sorry for the delay B) No troll intended.

The premise of this article seems to be that Repubs would be morally corrupt to vote for tD in view of his racist viewpoint being immoral. Your comments seem to concur with this premise. However, the author also states that those who voted for the Iraq war for political expediency (? kinda what HRC did) are similarly morally corrupt. Now, one could argue the "level" of the moral corruptness involved but to my way of thinking this would be akin to arguing the levels of Hitler/Stalin or Pig feces/Cow feces. So if this article is correct in it's assumptions that Repubs with a conscience should not vote for a moral inept tD, why should/will you do similarly and vote for HRC?

Again, not trying to troll here, just interested in why you are willing to pinch your nose and go with the lesser of two evils (whom you seem to feel is still extremely evil) rather than sticking to principle. Is it being in a purple state? I admittedly have the luxury/curse of being in a state that is pretty predictable in their voting patterns so I can go the principle route without fear of the greater evil getting the win. But the question persists, when is it OK to take the path of least resistance (you know, like HRC did with the Iraq war)?