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Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
- Thread starter Kepler
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Don't give the Chinese any ideas!!!!
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
The Democrats are wasting their time on this. They've already figured out the only surefire way to increase voter turnout. You gotta go to their homes, physically carry them to a waiting car, roll them into the voting precinct and fill out the ballot for them.
The very point I did make is that Clinton's proposal for automatic registration isn't going to have a "profound" impact on our democracy. It isn't going to have any impact. It's just typical politician hyperbolic b.s. Personally I think the Republicans are silly if they spend any time or money whining about it. People who are registered to vote in this country don't vote. People think just declaring "hey, you're registered, ta dah!" is going to change that?
The Democrats are wasting their time on this. They've already figured out the only surefire way to increase voter turnout. You gotta go to their homes, physically carry them to a waiting car, roll them into the voting precinct and fill out the ballot for them.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
In that case the GOP should support it full-throatedly. No skin off their nose, and it can't hurt anything.
As a well-scrubbed white suburbanite I used to think this was no big deal, too. I've just seen too many documentaries on how difficult it is for the poor to jump through our various administrative hoops -- even the ones which to you and I seem least onerous. You and I and people like us, who had "fill in each bubble thoroughly with a #2 pencil" drilled into our skulls, have a great deal of difficulty putting ourselves into the shoes of people who are the zeroeth person in their household to graduate high school, and who have basically lived on the margins of our "everything can be yours -- all you need is money" society. Their problems are different than ours. There really are people who can't take the time off because their boss will fire them for being an hour late to work, and/or who can't go anywhere there isn't a direct public transportation route because they will never own a car.
I think many on the right understands this, which is why they are so invested in keeping the voter turnout of these people as low as possible. Heck, the Founders felt the same way and located polling places in town and at a time of year when roads were miserable. The quest to systemically disenfranchise particular portions of the electorate is as old as the Republic.
In that case the GOP should support it full-throatedly. No skin off their nose, and it can't hurt anything.
As a well-scrubbed white suburbanite I used to think this was no big deal, too. I've just seen too many documentaries on how difficult it is for the poor to jump through our various administrative hoops -- even the ones which to you and I seem least onerous. You and I and people like us, who had "fill in each bubble thoroughly with a #2 pencil" drilled into our skulls, have a great deal of difficulty putting ourselves into the shoes of people who are the zeroeth person in their household to graduate high school, and who have basically lived on the margins of our "everything can be yours -- all you need is money" society. Their problems are different than ours. There really are people who can't take the time off because their boss will fire them for being an hour late to work, and/or who can't go anywhere there isn't a direct public transportation route because they will never own a car.
I think many on the right understands this, which is why they are so invested in keeping the voter turnout of these people as low as possible. Heck, the Founders felt the same way and located polling places in town and at a time of year when roads were miserable. The quest to systemically disenfranchise particular portions of the electorate is as old as the Republic.
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
But that actually supports my primary point. If they're made to feel like Sisyphus when we ask them to show up, one time, and fill out a registration document, what in the world makes you think they're going to actually go vote every November? Again, profound impact on people's lives, and our democracy?
I do agree the Republicans should leave this alone. If I ran their party, I wouldn't spend a nickel, or any political capital, on an issue that will have negligible (at best) impact. Also, why do people think this will help the Democratic party?
Ok. Sure. I understand The Bataan Death March argument Democrats need to trot out as a basis for so much of what they want to implement. I understand everyday tasks are not accomplished with the same ease by everyone.
But that actually supports my primary point. If they're made to feel like Sisyphus when we ask them to show up, one time, and fill out a registration document, what in the world makes you think they're going to actually go vote every November? Again, profound impact on people's lives, and our democracy?
I do agree the Republicans should leave this alone. If I ran their party, I wouldn't spend a nickel, or any political capital, on an issue that will have negligible (at best) impact. Also, why do people think this will help the Democratic party?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
Well, politicians throw "profound" around as one of Newt's "messaging words." Obama's not out of touch, he's Profoundly Out Of Touch, etc.
As for why people assume it would help the Democrats, that speaks to the different demographics the parties are currently serving. The Republicans are perceived as serving the super-rich, whether or not that's true (spoiler: it's true). Poor Republicans are Pentecostals or other fringe Christian groups that also tend to be well-organized by their churches into voting blocs. Poor black Democrats as also quite well organized by black churches. It's poor white Democrats who fail to show up on Election Day.
tl; dr: this guy votes, and this guy votes, but these guys don't vote.
I do think there would be a good effect on our democracy if we worked on involving more people more deeply in our politics. Why not make election day a national holiday? Why not have month-long elections, with every person having the option to vote by mail? Most importantly, why not pass effective campaign reform laws to prevent our elections from being horse races between candidates representing this or that billionaire's stable?
Well, politicians throw "profound" around as one of Newt's "messaging words." Obama's not out of touch, he's Profoundly Out Of Touch, etc.
As for why people assume it would help the Democrats, that speaks to the different demographics the parties are currently serving. The Republicans are perceived as serving the super-rich, whether or not that's true (spoiler: it's true). Poor Republicans are Pentecostals or other fringe Christian groups that also tend to be well-organized by their churches into voting blocs. Poor black Democrats as also quite well organized by black churches. It's poor white Democrats who fail to show up on Election Day.
tl; dr: this guy votes, and this guy votes, but these guys don't vote.
I do think there would be a good effect on our democracy if we worked on involving more people more deeply in our politics. Why not make election day a national holiday? Why not have month-long elections, with every person having the option to vote by mail? Most importantly, why not pass effective campaign reform laws to prevent our elections from being horse races between candidates representing this or that billionaire's stable?
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
If a legal way of banning campaign ads from television and radio could be found, I'm all in. But here's the way I see it. First, both parties are spending shocking amounts of money. It's not like one side is buying elections because the other side can't afford it. I also think the volume of ads has made most of it just so much "noise" that I think you are starting to see reduced effectiveness.
But let's say we just collectively decide that buying off politicians, by persons or entities, no longer constitutes free speech and we ban it all. Is that what we want, or is that even good?
If not, then aren't we really just talking about an arbitrary dollar amount in between, and who's to say what that should be. We already have these fixed limitations, and that isn't working worth a darn.
With respect to elections, first I think that making election day a national holiday might actually reduce turnout, not increase it. People wouldn't have a reason to get out of bed, to go to the schools or public buildings where voting occurs, other than to vote, and we've seen what an incentive that is.
Second, I'm of a view that there ought to be some effort required to vote. In my opinion, it's privilege. I don't think we should prevent people from voting because of their race or their sex or their status as landowners or the like. But you ought to have to actually want to vote. Show a little effort. If you're not willing to show a little effort, it's meaningless.
If a legal way of banning campaign ads from television and radio could be found, I'm all in. But here's the way I see it. First, both parties are spending shocking amounts of money. It's not like one side is buying elections because the other side can't afford it. I also think the volume of ads has made most of it just so much "noise" that I think you are starting to see reduced effectiveness.
But let's say we just collectively decide that buying off politicians, by persons or entities, no longer constitutes free speech and we ban it all. Is that what we want, or is that even good?
If not, then aren't we really just talking about an arbitrary dollar amount in between, and who's to say what that should be. We already have these fixed limitations, and that isn't working worth a darn.
With respect to elections, first I think that making election day a national holiday might actually reduce turnout, not increase it. People wouldn't have a reason to get out of bed, to go to the schools or public buildings where voting occurs, other than to vote, and we've seen what an incentive that is.
Second, I'm of a view that there ought to be some effort required to vote. In my opinion, it's privilege. I don't think we should prevent people from voting because of their race or their sex or their status as landowners or the like. But you ought to have to actually want to vote. Show a little effort. If you're not willing to show a little effort, it's meaningless.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
I've always felt this is a reasonable idea, but you'll get derps who say, "Dis is 'Murica! Not in dur Kons-tit-tushun! We durn't kneed no day off like dem stinkin' Euros!"
So, it'll never happen.
I've always felt this is a reasonable idea, but you'll get derps who say, "Dis is 'Murica! Not in dur Kons-tit-tushun! We durn't kneed no day off like dem stinkin' Euros!"
So, it'll never happen.
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
Joe's NWO
Election Day is July 4. It will be celebrated with bonfires and fireworks throughout the land as we celebrate the republic.
Congress will take office on September 1. The Presidential Inauguration will be September 15.
Joe's NWO
Election Day is July 4. It will be celebrated with bonfires and fireworks throughout the land as we celebrate the republic.
Congress will take office on September 1. The Presidential Inauguration will be September 15.
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Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
I have a hard time believing it (that some Koch brothers-style brain trust is worried about giving a few more people more incentives to vote). It's a phantom of fear drummed up by some quaking lefties that don't have anything serious left to wag their finger at.
You could hand out $20 bills on the street corners to get everyone to vote, (like in Chicago), and nothing would change at all in the big picture. The people are not going to get any smarter or more invested in our national institutions just because you explain to them that they should.
In fact, some of us who have been around for a while find ourselves growing less smart, and less trusting of government institutions by the day. I may, before long, end up living happily under a banyan tree in Hilo.
I have a hard time believing it (that some Koch brothers-style brain trust is worried about giving a few more people more incentives to vote). It's a phantom of fear drummed up by some quaking lefties that don't have anything serious left to wag their finger at.
You could hand out $20 bills on the street corners to get everyone to vote, (like in Chicago), and nothing would change at all in the big picture. The people are not going to get any smarter or more invested in our national institutions just because you explain to them that they should.
In fact, some of us who have been around for a while find ourselves growing less smart, and less trusting of government institutions by the day. I may, before long, end up living happily under a banyan tree in Hilo.
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FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
I think the "extra illegal voters" meme is joke on both "sides", cancelling each other out.
And FFS, no, the parties are not the same.
I think the "extra illegal voters" meme is joke on both "sides", cancelling each other out.
And FFS, no, the parties are not the same.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
The things we thought would "never happen" may in fact start happening. This country is changing demographically and the Great Unwashed we've had to tiptoe around all our lives for fear of offending/confusing/enraging will eventually not be important enough for politicians to pander to
The things we thought would "never happen" may in fact start happening. This country is changing demographically and the Great Unwashed we've had to tiptoe around all our lives for fear of offending/confusing/enraging will eventually not be important enough for politicians to pander to
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
I've never been a fan. I don't want one of my holidays to get eaten up by some ****ing fake Tuesday holiday. Man that's ****ty.
I'd rather see a national law mandating two hours of paid leave to vote.
I've never been a fan. I don't want one of my holidays to get eaten up by some ****ing fake Tuesday holiday. Man that's ****ty.
I'd rather see a national law mandating two hours of paid leave to vote.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
Election Day used to be a national holiday. Not sure when that went away though.
And at least in NYS, said mandate already exists, but only if your schedule does not permit you to be able to vote.
Election Day used to be a national holiday. Not sure when that went away though.
And at least in NYS, said mandate already exists, but only if your schedule does not permit you to be able to vote.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
I'm not sure this is true. According to Wikipedia, through 1845 there was no set election day and states (and even localities) all had different rules. Once communications became advanced enough that this meant people had knowledge of other states' voting prior to casting their votes, the Congress set the first Tuesday in November as the national election day based on the contemporary electoral college rules.
I didn't see anything about it being a federal holiday.
I see no good reason at all to not have it as a federal holiday, or at the very least on a weekend.
I'm not sure this is true. According to Wikipedia, through 1845 there was no set election day and states (and even localities) all had different rules. Once communications became advanced enough that this meant people had knowledge of other states' voting prior to casting their votes, the Congress set the first Tuesday in November as the national election day based on the contemporary electoral college rules.
I didn't see anything about it being a federal holiday.
I see no good reason at all to not have it as a federal holiday, or at the very least on a weekend.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
Some inside baseball on the VA gerrymandering case trudging towards SCOTUS. Money shot:
The decision was 2-1, and I love that the dissenting judge's opinion was "this isn't racial, it's incumbency protection." As if that's OK.
Some inside baseball on the VA gerrymandering case trudging towards SCOTUS. Money shot:
The decision was 2-1, and I love that the dissenting judge's opinion was "this isn't racial, it's incumbency protection." As if that's OK.
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
Interesting. I thought it was on a Tuesday in November due to harvest season being over by then (in the 13 colonies) but Tuesday gave everybody a day or so to get to the polls since they weren't supposed to be doing anything but worshiping the Lord on Sunday???
Anyway, back to the subject. I would like to see more uniform voting standards. Not exactly the same mind you, but in terms of acceptable ID's to vote, poll times, etc. States can conduct their own elections as they wish, but federal elections need to be more streamlined.
Interesting. I thought it was on a Tuesday in November due to harvest season being over by then (in the 13 colonies) but Tuesday gave everybody a day or so to get to the polls since they weren't supposed to be doing anything but worshiping the Lord on Sunday???
Anyway, back to the subject. I would like to see more uniform voting standards. Not exactly the same mind you, but in terms of acceptable ID's to vote, poll times, etc. States can conduct their own elections as they wish, but federal elections need to be more streamlined.
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
Curious where they go with this. To me, I can see a situation where if black-brown-green-etc voters are located in a compact area, say IIRC Baltimore as opposed to the rest of Maryland, I can see a compact district encompassing most of them. Where I get suspicious about the legality is a place like Georgia, which from my travels there doesn't have black and Hispanic voters all confined to Atlanta but generally spread around the state. If that state is say 35-40% minority, shouldn't they have a somewhat equal amount of Congressional representation provided they haven't decided to all live in the same compact geographical area? I think GA has maybe 13 seats? 40% = 5 minority majority districts. Doesn't have to be exact, but would the court mandate that is has to be close?
Some inside baseball on the VA gerrymandering case trudging towards SCOTUS. Money shot:
The decision was 2-1, and I love that the dissenting judge's opinion was "this isn't racial, it's incumbency protection." As if that's OK.
Curious where they go with this. To me, I can see a situation where if black-brown-green-etc voters are located in a compact area, say IIRC Baltimore as opposed to the rest of Maryland, I can see a compact district encompassing most of them. Where I get suspicious about the legality is a place like Georgia, which from my travels there doesn't have black and Hispanic voters all confined to Atlanta but generally spread around the state. If that state is say 35-40% minority, shouldn't they have a somewhat equal amount of Congressional representation provided they haven't decided to all live in the same compact geographical area? I think GA has maybe 13 seats? 40% = 5 minority majority districts. Doesn't have to be exact, but would the court mandate that is has to be close?
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
Bilderberg meeting is happening this week, and they are deciding who the 2016 US President will be. David Petraeus is on the attendee list, as is Kissinger. I do not see any candidates in attendance, but that probably won't be until next year's meeting.
Obama attended Bilderberg prior to his election.
Bilderberg meeting is happening this week, and they are deciding who the 2016 US President will be. David Petraeus is on the attendee list, as is Kissinger. I do not see any candidates in attendance, but that probably won't be until next year's meeting.
Obama attended Bilderberg prior to his election.
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