What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Rover said:
Interesting article...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...14dd66-18f8-11e5-ab92-c75ae6ab94b5_story.html
Click to expand...

Very good article.

Walker acknowledged Saturday night that the shooting was committed by “a racist and evil man” but withheld an opinion on the Confederate flag. After Haley’s statement on Monday, Walker tweeted that he supported her decision. His aides insisted that he had arrived at his position days earlier but declined to weigh in because he did not want to distract from the period of mourning.
Click to expand...

The GOP candidates may be scum, but we're all served by them pretending to have suddenly acquired a conscience. Haley gave them the cover to stop cowering to the racists and get back in step with southern moderates. And even though it gets them off the hook for the crop they've helped sow over the last few decades, their punishment is less important than another step towards justice.

Interesting that Romney and, of all people, Graham, come out of this looking at least human.
 
Last edited:
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Rover said:
Interesting article...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...14dd66-18f8-11e5-ab92-c75ae6ab94b5_story.html
Click to expand...
Definitely a good article.

I learned from an NPR piece last night that the CBF was only raised to the top of the SC statehouse in 1962, as a direct protest against federally imposed desegregation - I'd assumed that they'd been flying it ever since the War of Northern Aggression. That makes it 100x more outrageous when anyone tries to argue about "heritage" or "tradition." Just stop.
 
joecct said:
Where's the substance? She's ahead because she's Mrs. Bill and the vast unwashed think they'll be getting Bill 3.
Click to expand...

There's a joke in here about worrying about Hillary's substance given the clown car that is the republican field, but ****ed if I can find it...
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Rover said:
Handy, please step away from the computer before reading this! ;)

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-pre...016-democratic-field-leads-gop-rivals-n379836

Hillary crushing everybody.
Click to expand...

So weird. This is like having an incumbent run without having to defend an incumbency record. I don't really see a downside to that (I mean for her; it's highly suboptimal for the democratic process).

The closest historical precedent is probably Ike. He was a dominant presence for someone not in office. I'm not sure anybody even ran against him for the GOP nomination*. Everybody on the planet, let alone the country, already knew who he was and had made up their mind about him. In that he was like an incumbent. But he wasn't handicapped by having to defend a record.

* Edit: Taft actually ran neck and neck with him. For once, I am too young to remember something:

The fight for the Republican nomination was between General Dwight D. Eisenhower, who became the candidate of the party's moderate eastern establishment; Senator Robert A. Taft of Ohio, the longtime leader of the Republican Party's conservative wing; Governor Earl Warren of California, who appealed to Western delegates and independent voters; and former Governor Harold Stassen of Minnesota, who still had a base of support in the Midwest.

The moderate Eastern Republicans were led by New York Governor Thomas E. Dewey, the party's presidential nominee in 1944 and 1948. The moderates tended to be interventionists who felt that America needed to fight the Cold War overseas and resist Soviet aggression in Europe and Asia; they were also willing to accept most aspects of the social welfare state created by the New Deal in the 1930s. The moderates were also concerned with ending the Republicans' losing streak in presidential elections; they felt that the personally popular Eisenhower had the best chance of beating the Democrats. For this reason, Dewey himself declined the notion of a third run for President, even though he still had a large amount of support within the party.

The conservative Republicans led by Taft were based in the Midwest and parts of the South. The conservatives wanted to abolish many of the New Deal welfare programs; in foreign policy they were often non-interventionists who believed that America should avoid alliances with foreign powers. Taft had been a candidate for the Republican nomination in 1940 and 1948, but had been defeated both times by moderate Republicans from New York (Dewey in 1948, and Wendell Wilkie in 1940). Taft, who was 62 when the campaign began, freely admitted that 1952 was his last chance to win the nomination, and this led his supporters to work hard for him. Taft's weakness, which he was never able to overcome, was the fear of many party bosses that he was too conservative and controversial to win a presidential election.

Warren, although highly popular in California, refused to campaign in the presidential primaries and thus limited his chances of winning the nomination. He did retain the support of the California delegation, and his supporters hoped that, in the event of an Eisenhower-Taft deadlock, Warren might emerge as a compromise candidate.

After being persuaded to run, Eisenhower scored a major victory in the New Hampshire primary, when his supporters wrote his name onto the ballot, giving him an upset victory over Taft. However, from there until the Republican Convention the primaries were divided fairly evenly between the two men, and by the time the convention opened the race for the nomination was still too close to call. Taft won the Nebraska, Wisconsin, Illinois, and South Dakota primaries, while Eisenhower won the New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and Oregon primaries. Stassen and Warren only won their home states of Minnesota and California respectively, which effectively ended their chances of earning the nomination. General Douglas MacArthur also got ten delegates from various states (mostly Oregon), but had made it clear from early in the race that he had no interest in being nominated.

When the 1952 Republican National Convention opened in Chicago, Illinois, most political experts rated Taft and Eisenhower as neck-and-neck in the delegate vote totals. Eisenhower's managers, led by Dewey and Massachusetts Senator Henry Cabot Lodge Jr., accused Taft of "stealing" delegate votes in Southern states such as Texas and Georgia. They claimed that Taft's leaders in these states had unfairly denied delegate spots to Eisenhower supporters and put Taft delegates in their place. Lodge and Dewey proposed to evict the pro-Taft delegates in these states and replace them with pro-Eisenhower delegates; they called this proposal "Fair Play." Although Taft and his supporters angrily denied this charge, the convention voted to support Fair Play 658 to 548, and Taft lost many Southern delegates. Eisenhower also received two more boosts, firstly when several uncommitted state delegations, such as Michigan and Pennsylvania, decided to support him, and secondly when Stassen released his delegates and asked them to support Eisenhower, whose moderate policies he much preferred to those of Taft. The removal of many pro-Taft Southern delegates and the support of the uncommitted states decided the nomination in Eisenhower's favor.

However, the mood at the convention was one of the most bitter and emotional in American history. When Senator Everett Dirksen of Illinois, a Taft supporter, pointed at Dewey on the convention floor during a speech and accused him of leading the Republicans "down the road to defeat," mixed boos and cheers rang out from the delegates, and there were even fistfights between some Taft and Eisenhower delegates.

In the end, Eisenhower narrowly defeated Taft on the first ballot. To heal the wounds caused by the battle, he went to Taft's hotel suite and met with him. Taft issued a brief statement congratulating Eisenhower on his victory, but he was bitter about what he felt was the untrue "stealing delegates" charge, and he withheld his active support for Eisenhower for several weeks after the convention. In September 1952 Taft and Eisenhower met again at Morningside Heights in New York City, there Taft promised to support Eisenhower actively in exchange for Eisenhower agreeing to a number of requests. These included a demand that Eisenhower give Taft's followers a fair share of patronage positions if he won the election, and that Eisenhower agree to balance the federal budget and "fight creeping domestic socialism in every field." Eisenhower agreed to the terms, and Taft campaigned hard for the Republican ticket.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

There is a reason people sell their soul to the devil, so they can win. I already acknowledged she will win...its gonna be fun to watch you bend over backwards defending her for 4 years as she completely sells you all out. But hey, at least you, Kep and Scooby will have plenty to whine about and blame the wrong people for. Just remember who is responsible...

I feel bad for the people who think she is actually some sort of liberal who cares about people. I dont feel sorry for people like Kep who lie to themselves and say "well Bernie will move her left". He wont cause she doesnt have to. Money talks and she has it. People like that are no better than the rational GOPers who vote for know nothings like Bush and cloak it as "Better to have a GOP guy screw us than the alternative". Guess what, you get screwed either way.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

I'd be more interested in some sane congressmen over the presidency, but hahaha good luck.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Handyman said:
There is a reason people sell their soul to the devil, so they can win. I already acknowledged she will win...its gonna be fun to watch you bend over backwards defending her for 4 years as she completely sells you all out. But hey, at least you, Kep and Scooby will have plenty to whine about and blame the wrong people for. Just remember who is responsible...

I feel bad for the people who think she is actually some sort of liberal who cares about people. I dont feel sorry for people like Kep who lie to themselves and say "well Bernie will move her left". He wont cause she doesnt have to. Money talks and she has it. People like that are no better than the rational GOPers who vote for know nothings like Bush and cloak it as "Better to have a GOP guy screw us than the alternative". Guess what, you get screwed either way.
Click to expand...

Little Ralphie Nader Fraudspeak right here. The breathless "there's not a dime's difference between the two parties". Why do I get the feeling Al Gore would not have launched the Iraq War or cut taxes for GOP campaign contributors?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Handyman said:
I dont feel sorry for people like Kep who lie to themselves and say "well Bernie will move her left". He wont cause she doesnt have to. Money talks and she has it. People like that are no better than the rational GOPers who vote for know nothings like Bush and cloak it as "Better to have a GOP guy screw us than the alternative". Guess what, you get screwed either way.
Click to expand...

We shall see. Romney had all the money in the world. The nomination process pushed him so far right he started sounding like a John Bircher.

As of now, Clinton HAS moved left. If you're saying she won't budge, she already has. If you're saying, well, this is the nomination and in the general and the White House she'll just move right back to her center-right slot on economics, I'm hoping we're going to find out.

And even IF she does, she will still be far, far, far to the left of any Republican because of what the GOP has become. You could be right -- this could be the difference between getting shot and getting stabbed. There will still be less damage if we're stabbed, and a stabbing will also make the left fringe work that much harder for a legitimate liberal next time. A shooting is more likely to be lethal, and will only result in the centrists concern trolling "we have to move back to the right!"

Bernie is better than Hillary. Hillary is better than any Republican. You find me a path to a Bernie nomination and we can talk. If not, I'm still going to be passionately campaigning for Clinton, not because I love her, but because as Victor Lazlo said, "You may as well ask why we keep breathing. If we stop breathing, we die. If we stop fighting, the world will die."
 
Last edited:
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Kepler said:
We shall see. Romney had all the money in the world. The nomination process pushed him so far right he started sounding like a John Bircher.

As of now, Clinton HAS moved left. If you're saying she won't budge, she already has. If you're saying, this is the nomination and in the general and the White House she'll just move right back to her center-right slot on economics, I'm hoping we're going to find out.

And even IF she does, she will still be far, far, far to the left of any Republican because of what the GOP has become.
Click to expand...
Republicanphobia runs rampant once again. :p
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Handyman said:
There is a reason people sell their soul to the devil, so they can win. I already acknowledged she will win...its gonna be fun to watch you bend over backwards defending her for 4 years as she completely sells you all out. But hey, at least you, Kep and Scooby will have plenty to whine about and blame the wrong people for. Just remember who is responsible...

I feel bad for the people who think she is actually some sort of liberal who cares about people. I dont feel sorry for people like Kep who lie to themselves and say "well Bernie will move her left". He wont cause she doesnt have to. Money talks and she has it. People like that are no better than the rational GOPers who vote for know nothings like Bush and cloak it as "Better to have a GOP guy screw us than the alternative". Guess what, you get screwed either way.
Click to expand...

If you don't think there's a difference between the GW Bush and Obama administrations then I give up.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

ScoobyDoo said:
If you don't think there's a difference between the GW Bush and Obama administrations then I give up.
Click to expand...

I literally never said that, I never even said Obama's name...I would ask you try to reading it again but you ignore anything that doesnt prove your new narrative. I think I liked it better when you were telling us Walker was gonna win ;)
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

ScoobyDoo said:
If you don't think there's a difference between the GW Bush and Obama administrations then I give up.
Click to expand...

He's doing more of a repeat of the Bush v. Gore difference.

That turned out well.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Kepler said:
We shall see. Romney had all the money in the world. The nomination process pushed him so far right he started sounding like a John Bircher.

As of now, Clinton HAS moved left. If you're saying she won't budge, she already has. If you're saying, well, this is the nomination and in the general and the White House she'll just move right back to her center-right slot on economics, I'm hoping we're going to find out.

And even IF she does, she will still be far, far, far to the left of any Republican because of what the GOP has become. You could be right -- this could be the difference between getting shot and getting stabbed. There will still be less damage if we're stabbed, and a stabbing will also make the left fringe work that much harder for a legitimate liberal next time. A shooting is more likely to be lethal, and will only result in the centrists concern trolling "we have to move back to the right!"

Bernie is better than Hillary. Hillary is better than any Republican. You find me a path to a Bernie nomination and we can talk. If not, I'm still going to be passionately campaigning for Clinton, not because I love her, but because as Victor Lazlo said, "You may as well ask why we keep breathing. If we stop breathing, we die. If we stop fighting, the world will die."
Click to expand...

So then by your logic the GOPers should double down on what they believe? They should go farther right each election cause they should keep fighting? What about the socially moderate fiscally conservative GOP voters should they support Santorum or the Huckster cause...GOP? (you would never rip them for that would ya) You are emphasizing everything I despise about American politics.

Thank god i live in Minnesota where me and Scooby dont count :D
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Rover said:
Little Ralphie Nader Fraudspeak right here. The breathless "there's not a dime's difference between the two parties". Why do I get the feeling Al Gore would not have launched the Iraq War or cut taxes for GOP campaign contributors?
Click to expand...

Oh good the Nader Straw Man is back...you and Scooby just cant get away from bringing up stuff no one is even talking about. ;)

But hey if Snore had just been win his home state it wouldnt have mattered. Dude couldnt even out debate a monkey. (named Dubya)

Anyone else want to bring up candidates I never talked about? You sound like the Knucks you rip on for talking about Reagan :D
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Handyman said:
Thank god i live in Minnesota where me and Scooby dont count :D
Click to expand...

Pretty much nobody on this forum counts, unless we have some folks from Ohio. Maybe Colorado. No other college hockey states should be in play.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top