And if the people of South Carolina vote to keep the flag, then what?
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Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
- Thread starter Kepler
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And if the people of South Carolina vote to keep the flag, then what?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
Then my impression of South Carolina will remain unchanged.
Then my impression of South Carolina will remain unchanged.
I hope you're agreeing with me, because that is the exact scenario that makes them cowards. "I'm not a racist, but I'm willing to hide behind people who are."
Truly dispicable.
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
The issue caught all these GOP candidates as they're trying to move to the right. Outside of Romney (who has no need to move to the right), I'm thinking Bush has probably the best answer of the group. He infers that there is a right decision, but he's still afraid to come right out and say it. But as a front runner, he has that luxury. Huckabee is probably the worst of all. As a pastor, he's long since sold out.
The issue caught all these GOP candidates as they're trying to move to the right. Outside of Romney (who has no need to move to the right), I'm thinking Bush has probably the best answer of the group. He infers that there is a right decision, but he's still afraid to come right out and say it. But as a front runner, he has that luxury. Huckabee is probably the worst of all. As a pastor, he's long since sold out.
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
That's the part I don't get. You could easily say "personally I think the flag should come down because whatever the motivations of the people who put it up originally, its now come to symbolize something that the state shouldn't be associated with. I hope the people of South Carolina come to the same conclusion."
Really, outside the Ted Nugents of the deep South who still thinks we should be flying the Confederate Flag? GOP nominee needs to win in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Colorado, and New Hampshire. There's zero upside to this issue but a huge downside. Hell, southern righties aren't going to abandon the nominee if you come out in favor of taking the flag down so there's not a lot to lose here.
PS - I had my share of political disagreements with Red Cloud, but I missed the whole bigot thing?
Opie is off line because the orderlies rescinded his computer privileges. 
That's the part I don't get. You could easily say "personally I think the flag should come down because whatever the motivations of the people who put it up originally, its now come to symbolize something that the state shouldn't be associated with. I hope the people of South Carolina come to the same conclusion."
Really, outside the Ted Nugents of the deep South who still thinks we should be flying the Confederate Flag? GOP nominee needs to win in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Colorado, and New Hampshire. There's zero upside to this issue but a huge downside. Hell, southern righties aren't going to abandon the nominee if you come out in favor of taking the flag down so there's not a lot to lose here.
PS - I had my share of political disagreements with Red Cloud, but I missed the whole bigot thing?
Opie is off line because the orderlies rescinded his computer privileges.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
Rural PA and southern OH may as well be the deep south. And herpa-derps have all adopted the confederate flag. Woodchucks in central NY flew it fergoodnesssake.
Rural PA and southern OH may as well be the deep south. And herpa-derps have all adopted the confederate flag. Woodchucks in central NY flew it fergoodnesssake.
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
They're already voting GOP anyway. If Rural PA and rural OH ruled the roost, a black guy wouldn't have won both those states twice. Just sayin'...
They're already voting GOP anyway. If Rural PA and rural OH ruled the roost, a black guy wouldn't have won both those states twice. Just sayin'...
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
I'm just saying thumping the confederate tub won't hurt the GOP there. There are tons of herpa-derps, and suburban whites think blacks should move on. It's really easy to turn this into a boomerang "political correctness" issue, and the Republicans have learned how to play that tune as masters.
I was just talking to a couple Marylanders this weekend -- one libertarian and one Republican. They were by all rights ideal Democratic voters: college educated, one a teacher the other a small business owner, both politically active. But their thinking was completely clouded by airy, abstract messaging like the poor "wanting everything handed to them" and "with hard work anybody can succeed" and "liberalism is misguided altruism." When I tried to introduce hard data into the discussion they either didn't connect it back to their programming or, if they did, they simply doubled down and rejected it -- if the data clashes with the preconception, the data must be wrong. And these weren't stupid people. It's as if they had been literally stupified by years of watching Fox. They even sagely quoted the Churchill "If you're not a liberal when you're young..." canard, and quoted Ayn Rand.
The point is, these people ought to at least be centrist, but they've lived in a racist culture for so long they simply resonate with racist messaging. They don't think of it as any sort of high and mighty theory of racial superiority. They see it as "those are the hard facts that woolly heads refuse to admit." And when you directly refute them with facts, they do a "does not compute" and just reject the facts as somehow tainted (biased, "anybody can lie with statistics", etc).
Which is how the GOP can keep blowing their racist dog whistles to keep the creeps salivating without risking their non-bigoted followers. They have inoculated their voters to reality, and made them feel like they are heroes standing up for common sense and hard truths, feeding their John Wayne fantasies.
I'm just saying thumping the confederate tub won't hurt the GOP there. There are tons of herpa-derps, and suburban whites think blacks should move on. It's really easy to turn this into a boomerang "political correctness" issue, and the Republicans have learned how to play that tune as masters.
I was just talking to a couple Marylanders this weekend -- one libertarian and one Republican. They were by all rights ideal Democratic voters: college educated, one a teacher the other a small business owner, both politically active. But their thinking was completely clouded by airy, abstract messaging like the poor "wanting everything handed to them" and "with hard work anybody can succeed" and "liberalism is misguided altruism." When I tried to introduce hard data into the discussion they either didn't connect it back to their programming or, if they did, they simply doubled down and rejected it -- if the data clashes with the preconception, the data must be wrong. And these weren't stupid people. It's as if they had been literally stupified by years of watching Fox. They even sagely quoted the Churchill "If you're not a liberal when you're young..." canard, and quoted Ayn Rand.
The point is, these people ought to at least be centrist, but they've lived in a racist culture for so long they simply resonate with racist messaging. They don't think of it as any sort of high and mighty theory of racial superiority. They see it as "those are the hard facts that woolly heads refuse to admit." And when you directly refute them with facts, they do a "does not compute" and just reject the facts as somehow tainted (biased, "anybody can lie with statistics", etc).
Which is how the GOP can keep blowing their racist dog whistles to keep the creeps salivating without risking their non-bigoted followers. They have inoculated their voters to reality, and made them feel like they are heroes standing up for common sense and hard truths, feeding their John Wayne fantasies.
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dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
A smart play would be to dump that stupid flag and come out against it if you're the GOP. The people who will clutch that flag and all it represents aren't going to vote Democrat based on that issue. Well, maybe they would, I guess I'm not too sure about the South.
A smart play would be to dump that stupid flag and come out against it if you're the GOP. The people who will clutch that flag and all it represents aren't going to vote Democrat based on that issue. Well, maybe they would, I guess I'm not too sure about the South.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
On the other hand, the smart play if you're the Democrats is to keep bringing "dump the flag" bills to southern state legs or referendums (or whatever the state's constitutional mechanism is) at elections. When the GOP absorbed the Dixiecrats they winked at their virulent racism, while trying to change the subject at the national level. Make them own it. Force them to either stand with the racists (and lose national elections) or formally repudiate them (thus kicking the scum out of their second major party in 50 years). The latter move would also make it safe for the GOP to start becoming less vicious towards minorities and women and get back to the low taxes, kill a Commie for Christ message that did so well for them in the 80s.
On the other hand, the smart play if you're the Democrats is to keep bringing "dump the flag" bills to southern state legs or referendums (or whatever the state's constitutional mechanism is) at elections. When the GOP absorbed the Dixiecrats they winked at their virulent racism, while trying to change the subject at the national level. Make them own it. Force them to either stand with the racists (and lose national elections) or formally repudiate them (thus kicking the scum out of their second major party in 50 years). The latter move would also make it safe for the GOP to start becoming less vicious towards minorities and women and get back to the low taxes, kill a Commie for Christ message that did so well for them in the 80s.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
When Ben Carson is more sane than you, it might be time to check yourself.
When Ben Carson is more sane than you, it might be time to check yourself.
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
What is going to be done about the Clinton/Gore stars and bars posters?
But here is the main reason why the flag will come down:
@jmartNYT: And then there's the bottom line: the bottom line. Biz community wants flag down. SC has become hub for Boeing, BMW, tourism.Pols won't risk
What is going to be done about the Clinton/Gore stars and bars posters?
But here is the main reason why the flag will come down:
@jmartNYT: And then there's the bottom line: the bottom line. Biz community wants flag down. SC has become hub for Boeing, BMW, tourism.Pols won't risk
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Foxton
Banned
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
https://youtu.be/3sC6tgpL4dE
Glenn Beck doesn't know why they would want to fly the flag.
https://youtu.be/3sC6tgpL4dE
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
I guess nothing must get in the way of invading Iran.
I guess nothing must get in the way of invading Iran.
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
Not good. MD governor Larry Hogan has Stage 3 non-Hodgkins lymphoma.
http://wtop.com/maryland/2015/06/maryland-gov-larry-hogan-says-he-has-cancer-of-lymph-nodes/
Not good. MD governor Larry Hogan has Stage 3 non-Hodgkins lymphoma.
http://wtop.com/maryland/2015/06/maryland-gov-larry-hogan-says-he-has-cancer-of-lymph-nodes/
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
We still don't know who the GOP presidential nominee will be. But we know the vice presidential nominee.
We still don't know who the GOP presidential nominee will be. But we know the vice presidential nominee.
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good
Interesting article...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...14dd66-18f8-11e5-ab92-c75ae6ab94b5_story.html
Interesting article...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...14dd66-18f8-11e5-ab92-c75ae6ab94b5_story.html
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