Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

[Handyman]

Sounds like EVs are a part of the deal too. Must suck to be a climate denying Nazi today

Have you seen them...it anyways sucks to be them!

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

The rich people can just…serve themselves? Is that how it works once no staff can afford to live within an hours drive?

Like how Aspen employees live in Glenwood Springs, and Jackson Hole employees live in Idaho.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Have you seen them...it anyways sucks to be them!

We had a family dinner last Sunday before my grandpa flew back to Desantistan for the winter. My uncle spent half the meal whining about Biden killing the automakers with his EV directives, and how he and all his fellow tradespeople are getting screwed by the Democrats. Says man who built and sold a million dollar house a couple years back, can afford to rent in a very snooty area of Metro Detroit ever since, and is expanding his lake house up north. Sounds like a real screw job to me. My wife and I immediately tuned him out, leaving my grandpa to listen to his poutrage.

 

[MichVandal]

We had a family dinner last Sunday before my grandpa flew back to Desantistan for the winter. My uncle spent half the meal whining about Biden killing the automakers with his EV directives, and how he and all his fellow tradespeople are getting screwed by the Democrats. Says man who built and sold a million dollar house a couple years back, can afford to rent in a very snooty area of Metro Detroit ever since, and is expanding his lake house up north. Sounds like a real screw job to me. My wife and I immediately tuned him out, leaving my grandpa to listen to his poutrage.

I would really like to ask them what they specifically are so worried about for EV building. Even here, when you ask for specifics, the reply is generally silent.

For the most part, engines are have very automated assembly, and the skill to do the manual work has been scaled back to reduce human variability. (I know FTBG knows this). And there is people working in the battery, power control system, and motor manufacturing too. So it's not really a UAW problem.

The EV mandate didn't come from Biden- plenty of countries have taken that step even before California did.

And finally, the EV mandate isn't about BEVs only. Pretty much anything that is electrified is an EV, so a high end motor-generator instead of an alternator is an EV, legally.

Let alone, when dumpy dropped the EV mandate and reduced the requirements, the OEM's pretty much all ignored that and kept working toward the EV mandate. So it's not as if they think it's the worst path to take.

There's plenty of time for the battery quantum leap to happen.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

I would really like to ask them what they specifically are so worried about for EV building. Even here, when you ask for specifics, the reply is generally silent.

No need to ask him - he fears whatever Fox "News" tells him to fear, which naturally aligns with his fragile white male Boomer ego and precious fee-fees.

 

[dxmnkd316]

The funny thing is that (as we all know) ICEs are terminal. The only room for growth is in EVs. I'm 100% confident that EV assembly will be automated almost to the extent ICE are within the next 10-15 years. Either way, in the mean time, any company that doesn't start that pivot now is going to have to play an expensive and perilous game of catch-up. If you fall behind, you just might never recover.

 

[Swansong]

I appreciate the posts on the practical impacts of this shift from ICE to EV, but even beyond that, it's absurd to stick with an old, outdated technology just because of the concern for job protection. Buggy whips. Coal mines. Steam locomotives. On and on. Progress moves forward. To pretend otherwise is ignoring history.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

The funny thing is that (as we all know) ICEs are terminal. The only room for growth is in EVs. I'm 100% confident that EV assembly will be automated almost to the extent ICE are within the next 10-15 years. Either way, in the mean time, any company that doesn't start that pivot now is going to have to play an expensive and perilous game of catch-up. If you fall behind, you just might never recover.

When looking at the distribution of my portfolio by industry sector last year, I sunk the majority of my automotive slice into Toyota. I'm sure they aren't the only company working on solid state battery tech, but it seems like they are the most publicly and heavily invested in it now. If they can demonstrate a viable solid state battery by the end of this decade, the sky is the limit.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

I appreciate the posts on the practical impacts of this shift from ICE to EV, but even beyond that, it's absurd to stick with an old, outdated technology just because of the concern for job protection. Buggy whips. Coal mines. Steam locomotives. On and on. Progress moves forward. To pretend otherwise is ignoring history.

I can't believe we require dentists to attend special schools and be licensed now! I sure miss the days when getting a sore tooth removed was just a quick, inexpensive trip to the barbershop. What ever happened to unrestrained capitalism? Won't someone think of the barbers!? ;-)

 

[MichVandal]

The funny thing is that (as we all know) ICEs are terminal. The only room for growth is in EVs. I'm 100% confident that EV assembly will be automated almost to the extent ICE are within the next 10-15 years. Either way, in the mean time, any company that doesn't start that pivot now is going to have to play an expensive and perilous game of catch-up. If you fall behind, you just might never recover.

They already are. Not sure why people think EV's are so much different to make than ICE vehicles. They are not. And when you factor in the small detail that hybrids are going to dominate the market for quite a while, they are a combination of EV and ICE only- so they take more work and people to assemble.

The only real difference between a BEV and a basic ICE is the engine-trans with gas tank vs. motor, massive controller, and battery. The rest of the car is pretty identical. And right now, ICE's are still massively cheaper, so taking 1/3 of the battery out and replacing that with an entire ICE powertrain saves money.

It's almost as if UAW leadership is listening to Faux and their "reasoning" for not wanting EVs. As if Faux gives a crap about the Union and workers.

BTW, it's going to be a LONG time until ICE's are terminal. And given that liquid energy storage is more efficient than electrical storage, they may never go away- they will just shift fuel source.

I want to save the environment just like everyone else, but there are some pretty significant hurdles for EV's to take over the entire market. Let alone for BEVs to be universally accepted.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

According to Elise Stefanik, when Dump left office, a typical family could afford to buy a $725,000 home.

Sure, maybe if Stefanik's idea of a "typical family" is her campaign donors.

 

[dxmnkd316]

They already are. Not sure why people think EV's are so much different to make than ICE vehicles. They are not. And when you factor in the small detail that hybrids are going to dominate the market for quite a while, they are a combination of EV and ICE only- so they take more work and people to assemble.

The only real difference between a BEV and a basic ICE is the engine-trans with gas tank vs. motor, massive controller, and battery. The rest of the car is pretty identical. And right now, ICE's are still massively cheaper, so taking 1/3 of the battery out and replacing that with an entire ICE powertrain saves money.

It's almost as if UAW leadership is listening to Faux and their "reasoning" for not wanting EVs. As if Faux gives a crap about the Union and workers.

BTW, it's going to be a LONG time until ICE's are terminal. And given that liquid energy storage is more efficient than electrical storage, they may never go away- they will just shift fuel source.

I want to save the environment just like everyone else, but there are some pretty significant hurdles for EV's to take over the entire market. Let alone for BEVs to be universally accepted.

Those are pretty substantial differences. The entirety of the powertrain being different isn't exactly a small change ;-)

 

[MichVandal]

Those are pretty substantial differences. The entirety of the powertrain being different isn't exactly a small change ;-)

They may be very different, but the effort it takes to make them are not as much as people think. +500kW power controllers are not exactly simple.

And there are a lot more people in final assembly than at engine plants.

 

[St. Clown]

According to Elise Stefanik, when Dump left office, a typical family could afford to buy a $725,000 home.

Sure, maybe if Stefanik's idea of a "typical family" is her campaign donors.

Mine was a little more than 1/3 that price when I bought in 2019. My wife and I earn roughly the same, and could probably be approved for a house double our current with little concern from the mortgage companies.

No thanks, not interested in that sort of payment.

 

[unofan]

According to Elise Stefanik, when Dump left office, a typical family could afford to buy a $725,000 home.

Sure, maybe if Stefanik's idea of a "typical family" is her campaign donors.

Always like a chance to break out this old ditty from the WSJ:

 

[dxmnkd316]

They may be very different, but the effort it takes to make them are not as much as people think. +500kW power controllers are not exactly simple.

And there are a lot more people in final assembly than at engine plants.

Uh... like, I know you are from the industry, but you're not going to convince me they are not that different in effort.

especially when you you follow it up with "there are a lot more people in final assembly than at engine plants".

that sounds like it's different. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.

 

[mookie1995]

Always like a chance to break out this old ditty from the WSJ:

nice incomes in 2013 :^D

 

[walrus]

When looking at the distribution of my portfolio by industry sector last year, I sunk the majority of my automotive slice into Toyota. I'm sure they aren't the only company working on solid state battery tech, but it seems like they are the most publicly and heavily invested in it now. If they can demonstrate a viable solid state battery by the end of this decade, the sky is the limit.

Toyota still has a big stake in Hydrogen

 

[Kepler]

I didn't notice before that every person in a WSJ family is sad.

 

[St. Clown]

I didn't notice before that every person in a WSJ family is sad.

Well, they all pay taxes, unlike their corporate overlord, Rupert Murdoch.