Brown - Oops! They did it again.

[OnMAA]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

Good job by the team tonight. They kept Harvard on their toes for the majority of the game by putting in a great effort.

Alright, so Brown’s going into this game without a league win. They’re playing Harvard good and shutting down the offense for the most part playing solid d. They were even in Harvard’s zone for a fair amount of time. Why keep assisting that your forwards dump and chase. They don’t have anything to loose against a team as good as Harvard. They ether might cause a couple turnovers that lead to scoring opportunities, but they have a goalie in net that’s talented enough to take that chance. A tie or a win would say much more for the team than a 3-1 loss compared to a 5-1 loss. They’re not playing with hopes of making playoffs. They’re playing in hopes of getting their first win. Digit has embedded in the minds of the offense the necessity to dump and chase or when you get the puck in the offensive zone shoot it on net. It’s not that she doesn’t teach offensive creativity to her players, she actually is strongly against it.

And I know people are going to criticize me for going against the concept of once you’re in the offensive zone shoot it on net. But the only passes made in the offensive zone all game were from the forwards to the points. Nothing wrong with that, but you have to allow some creativity down low so they can get some better scoring chances. They’re so pressured to shoot the puck once they cross the blue line that the forwards don’t even look for another play developing or pay any attention to a forward who’s trailing behind them for support. Digit doesn’t teach enough situational play in the offensive zone. And it’s making her players throwaway opportunities that would create a better chance to score.

I bailed on commenting on this thread yesterday, but considering we had major disagreements in recent days, it is only fair to say to you...EXCELLENT POST. While I was not at the game to comment on what transpired or on your comments about it, your attempt to objectively break down some of the issues with the team on the Ice is well appreciated, and a great departure from the rest of this thread. Well Done.

And just for those who are curious or questioned some folks identity. I'm not Digit. I'm Male. And no I'm not Coady either. I live in Canada, I'm Canadian and have daughters playing hockey. Was at the rink earlier tonight watching one of them play, and they won.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

I bailed on commenting on this thread yesterday, but considering we had major disagreements in recent days, it is only fair to say to you...EXCELLENT POST. While I was not at the game to comment on what transpired or on your comments about it, your attempt to objectively break down some of the issues with the team on the Ice is well appreciated, and a great departure from the rest of this thread. Well Done.

And just for those who are curious or questioned some folks identity. I'm not Digit. I'm Male. And no I'm not Coady either. I live in Canada, I'm Canadian and have daughters playing hockey. Was at the rink earlier tonight watching one of them play, and they won.

Why?

 

[mattj711]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

And just for those who are curious or questioned some folks identity. I'm not Digit. I'm Male. And no I'm not Coady either. I live in Canada, I'm Canadian and have daughters playing hockey. Was at the rink earlier tonight watching one of them play, and they won.

I confess...I'm Digit.

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

Good job by the team tonight. They kept Harvard on their toes for the majority of the game by putting in a great effort.

Alright, so Brown’s going into this game without a league win. They’re playing Harvard good and shutting down the offense for the most part playing solid d. They were even in Harvard’s zone for a fair amount of time. Why keep assisting that your forwards dump and chase. They don’t have anything to loose against a team as good as Harvard. They ether might cause a couple turnovers that lead to scoring opportunities, but they have a goalie in net that’s talented enough to take that chance. A tie or a win would say much more for the team than a 3-1 loss compared to a 5-1 loss. They’re not playing with hopes of making playoffs. They’re playing in hopes of getting their first win. Digit has embedded in the minds of the offense the necessity to dump and chase or when you get the puck in the offensive zone shoot it on net. It’s not that she doesn’t teach offensive creativity to her players, she actually is strongly against it.

And I know people are going to criticize me for going against the concept of once you’re in the offensive zone shoot it on net. But the only passes made in the offensive zone all game were from the forwards to the points. Nothing wrong with that, but you have to allow some creativity down low so they can get some better scoring chances. They’re so pressured to shoot the puck once they cross the blue line that the forwards don’t even look for another play developing or pay any attention to a forward who’s trailing behind them for support. Digit doesn’t teach enough situational play in the offensive zone. And it’s making her players throwaway opportunities that would create a better chance to score.

I'll join the chorus of saying thanks for the analysis.

I'll ask one question that you may answer if you think you've watched enough of their games over the season. Many coaches with very young teams start off by drilliung the dump and chase you describe, trying not to force overly coordinated play by players not familiar with each other nor totally adjusted to that level of hockey. Did you observe Digit calling for this type of play still, or have the players become so well practiced in this that they don't even look for a different way especially against a known tough opponent?

One of the traps of coaching a young team this way is that they don't progress beyond it as they develop the chemistry and skill to go forward. Sometimes the coach doesn't have the confidence and sometimes it is the collective confidence of the players that makes this happen despite the coach asking for movement forward.

Your take?

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

I ..........am Spartacus!

I confess...I'm Digit.

MattJ, I already 'fessed up! beat ya to it!

 

[mattj711]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

MattJ, I already 'fessed up! beat ya to it!

LOL. Maybe we're both Digit.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

I was at the game tonight and my analysis differs somewhat from what has been posted. First off, this was Harvard's fourth game in seven days and the team was understandably sluggish and didn't bring their 'A' game. Second, they were playing a team that has not won a league game and I'm guessing it was hard for them to get any energy for a team they know they can beat handily. Third, they handled the puck tonight like it was a live grenade and that lead to inconsistent passing and sloppiness. It wasn't their best effort by a long shot and I do agree that Brown had something to do with it.

However, let's be real here. Even with a so-so effort, the Crimson came at the Lady Bears in waves and had numerous two on ones and three on twos. They couldn't convert because of the aforementioned sloppiness. Yes, Brown did a good job of taking away the middle of the ice and staying on Harvard's forwards as best they could. But if Harvard had brought their 'A' game, this would have been a rout. As it is, we should have had two or three more goals. The Brown goalie played well except for the third goal which rolled down her back and into the net (I actually scored a similar goal in high school and no one could believe it went in including the goal judge).

Brown hustled and tried hard. They didn't do as much dump and chase as has been mentioned. They actually tried to set some plays but don't have the skill to pull it off. Too often they lost the puck to Harvard's D before they could set something up. It seemed that instead of trying to get someone positioned in front, they used their D to initiate offense. Too easy to defend.

No comment on Digit except to say she did a lot of 'coaching' (re: vocalizing) from the bench that perhaps she felt was necessary for a young team. At least she didn't throw her usual temper tantrums. I'll give her credit for that.

 

[Veritas]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

As you probably would guess from my user name I am a Harvard fan and I was at the game tonight. Hcky85 gives an excellent summary of the game and I agree.
It was a hard fought game and great hockey to watch as a fan of either team. At the start of the game I had some preconceptions based on the seasons stats and my preconceptions were wrong. Brown did a fine job in my opinion and gave me some reason to worry. Excellent forechecking kept the puck in Harvard's zone more than I would have liked. As to the comment about lack of passes from the sides to the front of the net, I actually saw a few that had me worried. I actually made a few notes on my program and then stupidly left my program at Bright so I can make fewer comments on players. One young woman who had a strong presence in front of the net was a tall young lady named Farrar (sp?) number 8. Lots of coaches always put the tall/bigger players on D but No. 8 did great up front. Also, another forward, number 13, Landrey (sp?) did a nice job. She seems to have a good sense as to where the puck will be and where to get a pass. She had a couple of really nice shots that had me worried and also could deliver a pretty strong slap shot from the blue line. If i recall correctly both are young, fresh. or soph.
You appear to have a young team you can be proud of. They are likely to improve a lot. Best of luck in future games other than Harvard games!!

 

[hcky85]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

I'll join the chorus of saying thanks for the analysis.

I'll ask one question that you may answer if you think you've watched enough of their games over the season. Many coaches with very young teams start off by drilliung the dump and chase you describe, trying not to force overly coordinated play by players not familiar with each other nor totally adjusted to that level of hockey. Did you observe Digit calling for this type of play still, or have the players become so well practiced in this that they don't even look for a different way especially against a known tough opponent?

One of the traps of coaching a young team this way is that they don't progress beyond it as they develop the chemistry and skill to go forward. Sometimes the coach doesn't have the confidence and sometimes it is the collective confidence of the players that makes this happen despite the coach asking for movement forward.

Your take?

I’m not on the bench or in the locker room listening to what Digit is telling the kids to do. But here’s my perspective. The freshmen stood out more and were trying more stuff at the beginning of the season. Could it be because Griffin is out who’s a big part of their class? Could be, but it seems as the group in it’s entirety have gradually committed themselves to play dump and chase. And it’s not just the freshman it’s what every forward on the team does. You never see anyone take the puck into the zone, try to go wide, gain the line cut back let the d go by and let the play progress. Or you’ll never see forwards try to make a move on a 1v1, they’ll just take the shot. There’s no way every forward on the team likes doing this every game, it can’t be fun.

If it’s this late in the season and the coach doesn’t have confidence in the forwards to score, the worst way to handle that is making the forwards believe that too. They’ll never win. They need to be given some leeway to try new things, or exactly what your saying will happen. They develop the habit of not even thinking about another option. It really looks like this strategy has been drilled into their heads because it’s done by all players no matter what grade they’re in.

Actually this seems like their offensive stradegy for the past few years now.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

I’m not on the bench or in the locker room listening to what Digit is telling the kids to do. But here’s my perspective. The freshmen stood out more and were trying more stuff at the beginning of the season. Could it be because Griffin is out who’s a big part of their class? Could be, but it seems as the group in it’s entirety have gradually committed themselves to play dump and chase. And it’s not just the freshman it’s what every forward on the team does. You never see anyone take the puck into the zone, try to go wide, gain the line cut back let the d go by and let the play progress. Or you’ll never see forwards try to make a move on a 1v1, they’ll just take the shot. There’s no way every forward on the team likes doing this every game, it can’t be fun.

If it’s this late in the season and the coach doesn’t have confidence in the forwards to score, the worst way to handle that is making the forwards believe that too. They’ll never win. They need to be given some leeway to try new things, or exactly what your saying will happen. They develop the habit of not even thinking about another option. It really looks like this strategy has been drilled into their heads because it’s done by all players no matter what grade they’re in.

Actually this seems like their offensive stradegy for the past few years now.

I'm sorry to punch in like this..... It sounds like this team has no skill, or not enough. Your frustration is felt by any team under .500. There's no hope?

But there is hope, hope in the the sense that losing will come to an end. It will. 5-4?

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

As you probably would guess from my user name I am a Harvard fan and I was at the game tonight. Hcky85 gives an excellent summary of the game and I agree.
It was a hard fought game and great hockey to watch as a fan of either team. At the start of the game I had some preconceptions based on the seasons stats and my preconceptions were wrong. Brown did a fine job in my opinion and gave me some reason to worry. Excellent forechecking kept the puck in Harvard's zone more than I would have liked. As to the comment about lack of passes from the sides to the front of the net, I actually saw a few that had me worried. I actually made a few notes on my program and then stupidly left my program at Bright so I can make fewer comments on players. One young woman who had a strong presence in front of the net was a tall young lady named Farrar (sp?) number 8. Lots of coaches always put the tall/bigger players on D but No. 8 did great up front. Also, another forward, number 13, Landrey (sp?) did a nice job. She seems to have a good sense as to where the puck will be and where to get a pass. She had a couple of really nice shots that had me worried and also could deliver a pretty strong slap shot from the blue line. If i recall correctly both are young, fresh. or soph.
You appear to have a young team you can be proud of. They are likely to improve a lot. Best of luck in future games other than Harvard games!!

I can speak to the proper spelling and the character of # 8 Erica Farrer. This young power forward is a true athlete in every sense of the word. Fierce competitor, quiet leader, big, strong, smart, huge wing span and arguably the most well conditioned player on the team. I've had the pleasure of coaching and knowing Erica for a number of years and was very happy for her when she was accepted at Brown and reached her goal of playing Ivy.

Fastforward as my heart sank when these threads started as it was painful for me to know that she would have to endure all this mud slinging, innuendo and constant bickering about her team, her coach and their less than stellar win/loss record on inexplicably, a public forum for the entire hockey world to see. Family, friends, former team mates, former teachers and yes former coaches among others had it all splayed out in front of them. The very things that they were taught from a young age to deal with in the room were being debated in front of thier very eyes by people they didn't even know. Unbefreakinlievable!

I tried to point out in my very first post that these types of things can tear a dressing room apart, drive wedges so deep you would need dynamite to remove them...but oh no... some of the posters here would have none of that, they were going to be heard with little or no regard as to who they ran over.... in order to accomplish....what?

Too many chose to overlook the team and what effect this was having on them as they persisted in all this senseless debate. That is sad..very sad.

As I'm on record in my first post, I don't mind repeating...some of you here should be ashamed of yourselves.

Hang in there Erica, tell your team mates to do the same. Many here are pulling for you all.

Godspeed Brown Bears!

 

[Phil D. Stands]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

I'm sorry to punch in like this..... It sounds like this team has no skill, or not enough. Your frustration is felt by any team under .500. There's no hope?

But there is hope, hope in the the sense that losing will come to an end. It will. 5-4?

CHG apologizing? Hey, you don't grovel for me -- do I have to flash my "Seven Sisters" credentials?

I applaud the recent very sane observations -- it is as if someone opened a window.

I am not Digit either....but I am having a Murphy's with my gramma chick!

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

I can speak to the proper spelling and the character of # 8 Erica Farrer. This young power forward is a true athlete in every sense of the word. Fierce competitor, quiet leader, big, strong, smart, huge wing span and arguably the most well conditioned player on the team. I've had the pleasure of coaching and knowing Erica for a number of years and was very happy for her when she was accepted at Brown and reached her goal of playing Ivy.

Fastforward as my heart sank when these threads started as it was painful for me to know that she would have to endure all this mud slinging, innuendo and constant bickering about her team, her coach and their less than stellar win/loss record on inexplicably, a public forum for the entire hockey world to see. Family, friends, former team mates, former teachers and yes former coaches among others had it all splayed out in front of them. The very things that they were taught from a young age to deal with in the room were being debated in front of thier very eyes by people they didn't even know. Unbefreakinlievable!

I tried to point out in my very first post that these types of things can tear a dressing room apart, drive wedges so deep you would need dynamite to remove them...but oh no... some of the posters here would have none of that, they were going to be heard with little or no regard as to who they ran over.... in order to accomplish....what?

Too many chose to overlook the team and what effect this was having on them as they persisted in all this senseless debate. That is sad..very sad.

As I'm on record in my first post, I don't mind repeating...some of you here should be ashamed of yourselves.

Hang in there Erica, tell your team mates to do the same. Many here are pulling for you all.

Godspeed Brown Bears!

Fabulous post my friend, Fabulous post. As some people know I have similar connections to the team with another player, hence similar frustrations.

 

[Ralph Kramden]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

I’m not on the bench or in the locker room listening to what Digit is telling the kids to do. But here’s my perspective. The freshmen stood out more and were trying more stuff at the beginning of the season. Could it be because Griffin is out who’s a big part of their class? Could be, but it seems as the group in it’s entirety have gradually committed themselves to play dump and chase. And it’s not just the freshman it’s what every forward on the team does. You never see anyone take the puck into the zone, try to go wide, gain the line cut back let the d go by and let the play progress. Or you’ll never see forwards try to make a move on a 1v1, they’ll just take the shot. There’s no way every forward on the team likes doing this every game, it can’t be fun.

If it’s this late in the season and the coach doesn’t have confidence in the forwards to score, the worst way to handle that is making the forwards believe that too. They’ll never win. They need to be given some leeway to try new things, or exactly what your saying will happen. They develop the habit of not even thinking about another option. It really looks like this strategy has been drilled into their heads because it’s done by all players no matter what grade they’re in.

Actually this seems like their offensive stradegy for the past few years now.

Knowing that Coach Murphy was herself a pretty successful college player, along with her years of coaching experience, I really don't think that she just can't come up with a strategy to win. No matter what sport it is, you're limited in making strategic decisions by the tools you have available. How many times do you see a coach win a championship in a sport and then two or three years down the road, after massive player changes, or injuries or just plain bad luck, they're fired. Did they forget everything they knew when they won the championship? Doubtful. I'm sure if Coach Murphy had an Ovechkin on her team, they'd be double shifting her, getting the puck on her stick and letting her make plays. If players are not capable of beating the defense one on one, you really have no other options than to dump and chase or shoot. If you have to resort to dump and chase, and your players are incapable of then winning the battles down low, you're in deep trouble. Kind of like trying to copy the Mona Lisa with just a black magic marker. I've met Coach Murphy in the past and I have to say, I liked her a lot. I believe that if she gets a few more colors on her pallet, she'll be able to paint a picture that the fans will be happy with again.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

I can speak to the proper spelling and the character of # 8 Erica Farrer. This young power forward is a true athlete in every sense of the word. Fierce competitor, quiet leader, big, strong, smart, huge wing span and arguably the most well conditioned player on the team. I've had the pleasure of coaching and knowing Erica for a number of years and was very happy for her when she was accepted at Brown and reached her goal of playing Ivy.

Fastforward as my heart sank when these threads started as it was painful for me to know that she would have to endure all this mud slinging, innuendo and constant bickering about her team, her coach and their less than stellar win/loss record on inexplicably, a public forum for the entire hockey world to see. Family, friends, former team mates, former teachers and yes former coaches among others had it all splayed out in front of them. The very things that they were taught from a young age to deal with in the room were being debated in front of thier very eyes by people they didn't even know. Unbefreakinlievable!

I tried to point out in my very first post that these types of things can tear a dressing room apart, drive wedges so deep you would need dynamite to remove them...but oh no... some of the posters here would have none of that, they were going to be heard with little or no regard as to who they ran over.... in order to accomplish....what?

Too many chose to overlook the team and what effect this was having on them as they persisted in all this senseless debate. That is sad..very sad.

As I'm on record in my first post, I don't mind repeating...some of you here should be ashamed of yourselves.

Hang in there Erica, tell your team mates to do the same. Many here are pulling for you all.

Godspeed Brown Bears!

Yes...Good luck to Erica.
It's funny......just had a conversation the other night with my daughter.... she is going off to a D1 school this fall.....told her to stay away from the forums.....some will not help her to settle in.

All of this kind of ties in with the other thing huh 5-4. Same lack of hockey ethics.

 

[RStarr]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

OK RStarr. Time to get some sleep as you suggested earlier. Proper sentence structure will return when your brain is rested.

no, no....I fail in this department. miserably. I's no Ivy leaguer.

I can confidently say if those two Lamoureax twins from MN were transferring to Brown next year rather than ND - Brown would win a whole lot of games with Digit....or you....or me coaching the team.

I definitely see the points in your post. I tend to disagree with the statement above, but I suppose we'll never. I do think that ND will do well next year as the Sioux coach has already got some pretty good things going for the team. It will be exciting for sure.

...and maybe Katie will make me eat crow after all (I hope).

 

[Veritas]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

5 4 fighting:

Since you know Erica Farrer you might be interested in something I observed yesterday. I sit behind the goal Harvard defends for 2 periods. There was a collision in the crease and Farrer fell and landed pretty much on top of Lauara Bellamy, Harvard's goalie. Laura was slow to move/get up and your Erica was bending over her. She was clearly saying something. I could not hear the words but based on the body language it appeared she was sayng something like "Are you OK/Are you hurt?" As I said did not hear but from the posture and gestures she appeared concerned. If so, a class act!

PS: We play Yale today and you play Dartmouth. Good luck against Big Green!

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

I’m not on the bench or in the locker room listening to what Digit is telling the kids to do. But here’s my perspective. The freshmen stood out more and were trying more stuff at the beginning of the season. Could it be because Griffin is out who’s a big part of their class? Could be, but it seems as the group in it’s entirety have gradually committed themselves to play dump and chase. And it’s not just the freshman it’s what every forward on the team does. You never see anyone take the puck into the zone, try to go wide, gain the line cut back let the d go by and let the play progress. Or you’ll never see forwards try to make a move on a 1v1, they’ll just take the shot. There’s no way every forward on the team likes doing this every game, it can’t be fun.

If it’s this late in the season and the coach doesn’t have confidence in the forwards to score, the worst way to handle that is making the forwards believe that too. They’ll never win. They need to be given some leeway to try new things, or exactly what your saying will happen. They develop the habit of not even thinking about another option. It really looks like this strategy has been drilled into their heads because it’s done by all players no matter what grade they’re in.

Actually this seems like their offensive stradegy for the past few years now.

Thanks for the further input.

If it is as you say - early in the season the team trying different strategies to settle into more dump and chase as the year progresses - this says to me a team that was coached in the preseason to try to be more agressive, but found early in the season that it wasn't working (not sure why, could be talent/experience, could be a few bad experiences or that injury you mentioned) so they've settled into a more "safe" (fewer neutral ice turnovers) offense, although it sounds from other posts that there are still a goodly number of odd-man rushes.

I would suggest that this could be partly coaching (let's not get ourselves embarrassed) and could be partly team dynamics (confidence between linemates, which could be partly a coaching issue).

Regardless, it sounds like the team skated hard for 60 minutes and certainly haven't given up on themselves. Says that coach still has good control and motivation skills, but this only lasts so long. If the young team is tight and buys into patience in skill development and a better incoming class next year, they will be OK. It is when they develop a "need to win now" mentality that frustration settles in and things melt down. I think the only people who know this are in the locker room.

All in all it hardly sounds like the wheels have fallen off the wagon, but yes Digit is going to have to find a way to move forward with the bunch she has next year (and the incoming class) if she is to generate enough success to keep on coaching. But from everything I hear here, it sounds like Brown is going through the normal pains of a rebuild.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

5 4 fighting:

Since you know Erica Farrer you might be interested in something I observed yesterday. I sit behind the goal Harvard defends for 2 periods. There was a collision in the crease and Farrer fell and landed pretty much on top of Lauara Bellamy, Harvard's goalie. Laura was slow to move/get up and your Erica was bending over her. She was clearly saying something. I could not hear the words but based on the body language it appeared she was sayng something like "Are you OK/Are you hurt?" As I said did not hear but from the posture and gestures she appeared concerned. If so, a class act!

PS: We play Yale today and you play Dartmouth. Good luck against Big Green!

Veritas, that doesn't surprise me in the least. The kids got more character and moxy than half the adults I've been exposed to on these boards. It will take a lot more than the venom spewed here to derail the intestinal fortitude and spirit of this young women. After being witness to all of this, Her and her team mates will always have my utmost respect. Win, loss or draw.

I have girls I know and coached on both Darty and Brown..so kinda hoping for a 7-7 tie.

 

[dontyelldad]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

Veritas, that doesn't surprise me in the least. The kids got more character and moxy than half the adults I've been exposed to on these boards. It will take a lot more than the venom spewed here to derail the intestinal fortitude and spirit of this young women. After being witness to all of this, Her and her team mates will always have my utmost respect. Win, loss or draw.

I have girls I know and coached on both Darty and Brown..so kinda hoping for a 7-7 tie.

Obviously, your kids on those teams are not the goalies!!