Brown - Oops! They did it again.

[Trillium]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

Kudos to every Brown Bear player that is still working hard in practice, in training, in the classroom, and in games. I hope that when they emerge from the tunnel, they are welcomed with half the fervor that has been displayed here.

This.

Please remember that we all admire and applaud you for maintaining a positive attitude under adversity. It will get you far in life.

 

[dontyelldad]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

Just out of curiosity...what is your stance on teams running up the score?

I'm against it.

{I know you weren't asking me...}

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

Those who don’t focus entirely on the record seem to have a very superficial understanding of Ivy League athletics. They don’t attract big crowds for multiple reasons. The student body’s significantly smaller. Admission is much stricter so to get into an Ivy League school you need to have some exceptional talent or hobby (whether it’s sports, chemistry, speech and debate, politics). But the majority of students here have their own obligations. The fact that there are not many spectators does not in any way demonstrate that Ivy League athletics don’t view winning as top priority.

You missed my point. Division I athletic programs are supposed to have a spectator oriented focus than Division III where competitions are more about the participant. Ivy League schools tend to sponsor sports like fencing and squash that are not necessarily spectator oriented, but more about the participant.

Yes, winning is important, but in the Ivy League, it is how your school does as a whole that is valued by AD's. Not every team is targeted with resources (money, facilities, designated team AI average) necessary to win their league. I don't think any of us know what advantages Digit gets (or doesn't get) to build a team from year to year. It is quite clear when she started the hockey program that nobody threw a lot of resources at womens hockey team and as a result of her own work built an early success. However, with growth in stature in womens hockey came increased competition and perhaps, she hasn't had the resources to keep up with the Harvards of the world. And perhaps the AD there understands that you get what you pay for and isn't willing to give her the resources that other schools allow their women's hockey coaches, but is satisfied with what she does for the school's image. We don't have the inside information as to what Digit's AI requirements are nor what kind of pay she has been able to offer assistants historically.

There are a lot of things we don't have information about here, but to ignore these other issues and focus entirely on the win-loss record reduces this whole debate to the "less-filling" vs. "tastes great" mentality of a bunch of drunk hockey fans ******ed off because their team isn't winning and calling for the coach's head.

I still would like some ANALYSIS of what is lacking in Digit's teaching her players the game, or managaing the game, or recruiting great players from those calling for her dismissal.

The silence is deafening.

 

[videohockey]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

You missed my point. Division I athletic programs are supposed to have a spectator oriented focus than Division III where competitions are more about the participant. Ivy League schools tend to sponsor sports like fencing and squash that are not necessarily spectator oriented, but more about the participant.

Yes, winning is important, but in the Ivy League, it is how your school does as a whole that is valued by AD's. Not every team is targeted with resources (money, facilities, designated team AI average) necessary to win their league. I don't think any of us know what advantages Digit gets (or doesn't get) to build a team from year to year. It is quite clear when she started the hockey program that nobody threw a lot of resources at womens hockey team and as a result of her own work built an early success. However, with growth in stature in womens hockey came increased competition and perhaps, she hasn't had the resources to keep up with the Harvards of the world. And perhaps the AD there understands that you get what you pay for and isn't willing to give her the resources that other schools allow their women's hockey coaches, but is satisfied with what she does for the school's image. We don't have the inside information as to what Digit's AI requirements are nor what kind of pay she has been able to offer assistants historically.

There are a lot of things we don't have information about here, but to ignore these other issues and focus entirely on the win-loss record reduces this whole debate to the "less-filling" vs. "tastes great" mentality of a bunch of drunk hockey fans ******ed off because their team isn't winning and calling for the coach's head.

I still would like some ANALYSIS of what is lacking in Digit's teaching her players the game, or managaing the game, or recruiting great players from those calling for her dismissal.

The silence is deafening.

I hear more popcorn popping. Do I have time to get a beer, too?

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

I'm against it.

{I know you weren't asking me...}

Dog-gonit! There goes that theory all to hell...

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

I wonder how many people on this thread have actually seen Brown play at least two or more games this season. My interest in participating in this discussion is to provide context for thoughtful conversation.

In this spirit, I am willing to pay for up to 25 posters to either go to a Brown game or watch one online. I will buy your admission ticket or pay the one-game online fee. This offer is for the home game weekend series against Cornell, Friday February 12, and Colgate, Saturday, February 13. I chose these games as both are webcast and it gives me enough time to send you the money.

All you have to do is send me your contact info via rep and I'll take care of the rest.

I don't care to much for money..cause money.......well you know.

I'll tune in on my own tab. Thanks for the heads up. Hope Brown Wins, but O'well if they don't... I'll support them all the same.

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

I dare a new coach to come in and make the attrition rate higher or decrease the winning percentage, it's not possible.

And your arguments pretty tough to defend especially at Brown. Just look at the men's team. They had the Grillo Empire going on for twelve years. He had early success too, but then drove the program into the ground. This year they got a new coach and now they're doing awesome, without even having the chance to have their own recruiting class come in to work with. I think the men's team is actually breaking previous years records in shots and goals.

So if anything, I'm a firm beleiver that the talent of the players at brown is not the problem, it's the coaches.

So you are saying that Digit and Sean seem to be able to recruit enough of the right players to be able to skate with Harvard and that somehow they are not sufficiently teaching/motivating them to perform up to their potential? What do you see on the ice (not on the scoreboard) that suggests this?

As to coaches, I'd hardly call this year's men's team a turnaround of epic proportion in the win-loss column (your only standard of measurement not mine). There are lots of coaches who come in, shake up things and move the needle this much. Jacques Demere comes to mind here. I'd hardly call this an indictment of the previous regime (of which I claim to know little), but it is far too early to call this a success.

IIRC, I mentioned Joe Paterno (football at Penn State) as a coach who had many years of early success, fell on more than a decade of miserable failure and now has resurrected the program. You seem to underestimate the ability of a seasoned coach to repeat previous success.

Once again I ask for actual analysis of play (and take up Brown Parent's offer of free admission to watch the game) to say that Digit is not coaching the team correctly.

 

[hcky85]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

It isn't that people don't dare, they don't feel any stock should be put in anonymous attacks on a message board. In my opinion, and it is just an opinion, it isn't the place of somebody who has had a kid on a team for a couple of weeks to decide somebody else should lose their job, which is the premise behind the start of these threads. The Murphy-Brown win/loss mark is a matter of public record. I assume she is doing the job to the best of her ability, and it isn't for me to say whether that is good enough. It is up to the powers that be, no matter how often some team "supporter" feels the need to draw attention to every loss. I view mudslinging here the same way that I do in a political campain -- it damages my opinion of the thrower far more than it does the intended target.

Kudos to every Brown Bear player that is still working hard in practice, in training, in the classroom, and in games. I hope that when they emerge from the tunnel, they are welcomed with half the fervor that has been displayed here.

Only one person said they have a freshman on the team. And I wouldn’t consider anything said “mudslinging” ether. If any, it’s the pro-Digit posts that actually make an attempt to ignore all positive aspects about individuals and mention the most negative things they’ve heard that pertain nothing to hockey. On the other hand nobody’s personally attacked Digit, people have simply stated statistic or other hockey related information. If she doesn’t want to be criticized, then deciding to coach was one hell of a mistake on her part. And when the most important indicator of how well she’s doing her job is winning, then right now she deserves to be criticized.

It is possible for someone to have an opposing opinion while not being drunk, fat, stupid and lazy, and also not be a coward or a loser. I know this might be extremely frustrating for some people. I can only imagine how hard it might be for some of the readers out there to accept the fact that you can’t just cut bloggers who question the ability of the coaches. Again, my feelings are not hurt. But like you said it takes away much more from the person who’s throwing the mud.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

Only one person said they have a freshman on the team. And I wouldn’t consider anything said “mudslinging” ether. If any, it’s the pro-Digit posts that actually make an attempt to ignore all positive aspects about individuals and mention the most negative things they’ve heard that pertain nothing to hockey. On the other hand nobody’s personally attacked Digit, people have simply stated statistic or other hockey related information. If she doesn’t want to be criticized, then deciding to coach was one hell of a mistake on her part. And when the most important indicator of how well she’s doing her job is winning, then right now she deserves to be criticized.

It is possible for someone to have an opposing opinion while not being drunk, fat, stupid and lazy, and also not be a coward or a loser. I know this might be extremely frustrating for some people. I can only imagine how hard it might be for some of the readers out there to accept the fact that you can’t just cut bloggers who question the ability of the coaches. Again, my feelings are not hurt. But like you said it takes away much more from the person who’s throwing the mud.

Actually I think it reads Drunk, Fat Canadian girls....who slung that mud?

 

[hcky85]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

So you are saying that Digit and Sean seem to be able to recruit enough of the right players to be able to skate with Harvard and that somehow they are not sufficiently teaching/motivating them to perform up to their potential? What do you see on the ice (not on the scoreboard) that suggests this?

As to coaches, I'd hardly call this year's men's team a turnaround of epic proportion in the win-loss column (your only standard of measurement not mine). There are lots of coaches who come in, shake up things and move the needle this much. Jacques Demere comes to mind here. I'd hardly call this an indictment of the previous regime (of which I claim to know little), but it is far too early to call this a success.

IIRC, I mentioned Joe Paterno (football at Penn State) as a coach who had many years of early success, fell on more than a decade of miserable failure and now has resurrected the program. You seem to underestimate the ability of a seasoned coach to repeat previous success.

Once again I ask for actual analysis of play (and take up Brown Parent's offer of free admission to watch the game) to say that Digit is not coaching the team correctly.

Alright, here's an analysis. Brown does have the players to keep up with teams like Harvard, SLU, and Clarkson. Just look at the score of those games. It’s most definitely not Digit doing the work on the ice. But then if you look at their current loss to Union their performance was lethargic. They didn’t randomly become less talented hockey players.

When Brown plays a good team hard, the credit should go to the players. But it says something when Brown loses a game that the players should love playing, having the good players try out their moves, run the score up and give the kids who don’t play a chance. In other words, those games should be fun. But when the players are counting down the seconds on the game clock or just dreading next Monday’s practice instead of enjoying the game, then I think it’s fair to say the coaches deserve the credit for that one.

 

[ARM]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

Only one person said they have a freshman on the team.

Correct -- that is also the person who started 3 new threads to draw attention to the same problem.

If she doesn’t want to be criticized, then deciding to coach was one hell of a mistake on her part.

Forgive me if I missed it, but Coach Murphy has yet to state her preference on this board.

My 2 cent summary. Some Brown insiders feel it is time to make a coaching change. Some in this internet community believe such statements by insiders, whether or not they have validity, are detrimental to the team. Personally, I don't know if they hurt, but I don't see how they help.

You have stated that there is enough talent in place currently to win with different coaches. I will bow out of this discussion at this point, and just say I wish the Brown team the best.

 

[videohockey]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

Correct -- that is also the person who started 3 new threads to draw attention to the same problem.

Forgive me if I missed it, but Coach Murphy has yet to state her preference on this board.

My 2 cent summary. Some Brown insiders feel it is time to make a coaching change. Some in this internet community believe such statements by insiders, whether or not they have validity, are detrimental to the team. Personally, I don't know if they hurt, but I don't see how they help.

You have stated that there is enough talent in place currently to win with different coaches. I will bow out of this discussion at this point, and just say I wish the Brown team the best.

I'll get you your beers now.

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

Alright, here's an analysis. Brown does have the players to keep up with teams like Harvard, SLU, and Clarkson. Just look at the score of those games. It’s most definitely not Digit doing the work on the ice. But then if you look at their current loss to Union their performance was lethargic. They didn’t randomly become less talented hockey players.

When Brown plays a good team hard, the credit should go to the players. But it says something when Brown loses a game that the players should be having fun, having the good players try out their moves, run the score up and give the kids who don’t play a chance. In other words, those games should be fun. But when the players are counting down the seconds on the game clock or just dreading next Monday’s practice instead of enjoying the game, then I think it’s fair to say the coaches deserve the credit for that one.

Thanks for the analysis.

And yes, it would appear that they are playing closer against good opponents than in past years (although I don't have the specifics to document this right now). Yes, there is a bit of talent in that. There is also a degree of team chemistry that keeps a team from mailing it in when down as the game goes on as well. Young teams that keep it close with better competitors are generally thought to be a credit to the coach and a sign that a rebuild will proceed in future years. This could be viewed as a good sign about what Digit is doing. She is keeping them skating until the end.

I didn't hear the story about counting down the time on the clock. Is this a one-time event or a regular occurrence?

As to the Union game, they clearly outshot Union (whose goalie was on fire as evidenced by a 47 save shutout) and young teams who haven't won much do struggle with how to push through this kind of thing. I can understand Brown fans being upset with the specific game result of a game they expected to win.

Now we are talking analysis. And I guess you are seeing the 1/2 empty glass, and perhaps others are seeing the half full glass. Fair enough.

 

[Pops Ryan]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

Dear Notfromaroundhere,
I gather that you have asked for an analysis of Brown's coaching methodology and suggest that no one has offered one. Perhaps it is because no one wants to be that arrogant. While I too prefer making friends over creating enemies, kindly permit the following obsevations:
* A 'low box' D is fine...if you can counter-attack with a strong side to weak side breakout. I did not notice much evidence of that. Nor is there much D to D movement. As simple as it sounds, it could be used to neutralize a strong forecheck.
* Neutral Zone play is sort of haphazard. I did not see any 3 Lane coverage or any effective backtracking. You should have one or the other.
* The offensive attack begs to have some width added to it. A double wide approach with some secondary middle push would add a little bit of zip and would also be a little more difficult to defend than the mid-lane focused offense that is presently in place.
Sorry to be the arrogant one, my friend.

 

[hcky85]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

Thanks for the analysis.

Young teams that keep it close with better competitors are generally thought to be a credit to the coach and a sign that a rebuild will proceed in future years. This could be viewed as a good sign about what Digit is doing. She is keeping them skating until the end.

I didn't hear the story about counting down the time on the clock. Is this a one-time event or a regular occurrence?

As to the Union game, they clearly outshot Union (whose goalie was on fire as evidenced by a 47 save shutout) and young teams who haven't won much do struggle with how to push through this kind of thing. I can understand Brown fans being upset with the specific game result of a game they expected to win.

Now we are talking analysis. And I guess you are seeing the 1/2 empty glass, and perhaps others are seeing the half full glass. Fair enough.

The comment about the team rebuilding has been made multiple times now. What are they rebuilding from? They graduated only 3 last year, 5 the previous year, and the year before that they were good. The only reason they are in this rebuilding predicament is because Digit took a couple years off looking at other job opportunities. Her heart wasn't in it at Brown and it showed. But then she has the audacity to cut players because they might have realized this, further setting the team back. And my objective is not to bring that subject back up, but I don’t understand how people don’t question why this rebuilding period is even happening 20 years after she became the head coach.

 

[RStarr]

Seriously?!!?!!!!111!!!!

Seriously?!!?!!!!111!!!!

Guess you don't understand the workings of FA at an Ivy. Player turnover has no aditional cost to the school. All students get the same FA considerations, totally independent of whether they are a Varsity student or not. FA is needs based, not skills based.The only cost of player turnover is that someone else loses a spot at the school, as it is now taken by yet another hockey player.

Guess you don't understand the money that it takes to recruit kids. There's a lot more money than just FA involved here. But you already know that. Turn that light bulb on OnMAA.

 

[RStarr]

dirka dirka.

dirka dirka.

You know what happens when you assume something... ;

yeah, you look like and a s s. so stop assuming that this is all the kids fault and none of Digits.

Or better yet, just step away from the keyboard and preserve what little reputation you have left.

Censorship = bullshiz. Stop trying to censor free speech. If you don't like the conversation, GET OUT OF THE THREAD. gee, light bulb goes on.

All I can say after reading all of your posts is "I know you are not an Ivy League student".

Thanks for the contribution rinkrat, Anything else insightful to add? yeah, I thought so.

I wonder how many people on this thread have actually seen Brown play at least two or more games this season.

None. But wouldn't you know that they all know everything about the situation? Its magic I tell ya.

Please remember that we all admire and applaud you for maintaining a positive attitude under adversity. It will get you far in life.

X 1000

You missed my point.

you've missed our point a thousand times. and?

Hope Brown Wins, but O'well if they don't... I'll support them all the same.

I'd say we all support Brown. I we didn't, we wouldn't give a shiz.

My 2 cent summary. Some Brown insiders feel it is time to make a coaching change. Some in this internet community believe such statements by insiders, whether or not they have validity, are detrimental to the team.

I can make my own opinions without any insiders pushing my decision. My opinion is that Brown sucks because of the coaching unit and the athletic department. Digit needs to be fired (along with a bunch of other people). Brown needs to quit half assing this program or cut it or something cheaper.

The comment about the team rebuilding has been made multiple times now. What are they rebuilding from? They graduated only 3 last year, 5 the previous year, and the year before that they were good.

Yeah. It doesn't appear that Digit is graduating a whole bunch of "well rounded student athletes" does it. It appears if these girls are graduating on their own....without the Digit. WHOA!!!!11!!!11!!!

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

Hey RStarr, how come I didn't get quoted in your tirade? What are you, afraid of me or something? Or did I just make too much gosh darn sense?

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Brown - Oops! They did it again.

Personally, I think we should find 800 more excuses to coddle her for 30 more seasons while we find 800 more reasons why little Janey deserved to get the boot.

I'm thinking we're about halfway there!

We can do it! I know we can!!! Who's with me?

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Seriously?!!?!!!!111!!!!

Re: Seriously?!!?!!!!111!!!!

Guess you don't understand the money that it takes to recruit kids. There's a lot more money than just FA involved here. But you already know that. Turn that light bulb on OnMAA.

Light Bulb on.......

Lets do some math: (I'm good at numbers, lousy in English, Excellent in French and two other languages)

FA for a student for four years at half of total cost at Brown would add up to 4x$25K = $100K.

The scouts pretty much go to all the tournaments anyways, so if you have to sign two extra players, that would add up to 2 officials, a couple of meetings with coaches, and potentially 2 extra recruit trips. Max cost $5-6K.
Point is the extra recruiting cost is peanuts compared to the FA doled out, which is doled out anyways, irregardless of whether incoming students are hockey players or not.

...Light bulb OFF.