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Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

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Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

The government is now in the minority

Conservative MP Phillip Lee has defected to the Liberal Democrats ahead of a showdown between Boris Johnson and Tory rebels over Brexit.

Dr Lee, the MP for Bracknell, took his seat on the opposition benches as the PM addressed the Commons.

His defection means that Boris Johnson no longer has a working majority in the Commons.
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The opposition now has a combined 320 votes and the Tories/DUP 319.

Amid angry exchanges during the PM's statement on last month's G7 summit, Jeremy Corbyn urged the PM to "reflect on his choice of language" to describe the rebels' bill.

The Labour leader said the UK was "not at war with Europe" and it was a no-deal exit which would see the UK "surrender" jobs, employment standards and social protections.

"His is a government with no mandate, no morals and, as of today, no majority," he added.
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Tory rebel Oliver Letwin is scheduled to make a motion for emergency debate within the hour of this writing. If successful there will be debate followed by a vote to extend the deadline to 2020.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

One of the signs of how absurd this all is: Winston Churchill's grandson, Nick Soames, has been a Tory MP since 1983. He is likely to be kicked out of the party before the night is through.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

Parliament votes 328-301 to take control of the schedule tomorrow. There will be a vote to force the PM - in writing - to request an extension from the EU to 31 January. There may also be a vote to make no-deal (again) illegal. Boris Johnson responds by tabling a motion for a new election. Corbyn says he welcomes it - after they've voted on tomorrow's agenda.

The British certainly can do fireworks!
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

ticapnews said:
One of the signs of how absurd this all is: Winston Churchill's grandson, Nick Soames, has been a Tory MP since 1983. He is likely to be kicked out of the party before the night is through.
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21 MPs have been kicked out of the Tory party tonight, including Soames, Sir Oliver Letwin, Kenneth Clarke, Dominic Grieve, Phillip Hammond and Rory Stewart.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

What exactly does that mean? Some of us have no clue how British politics work :)
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

Handyman said:
What exactly does that mean? Some of us have no clue how British politics work :)
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Using parliamentary language, they "had the whip removed" meaning they can no longer sit with government in Parliament and (more importantly) can not represent the party in the next election. By kicking them out Boris and his allies are free to recruit whomever for those constituencies. That means replacing them with no-deal Brexiteers. It isn't as if they are replacing moderates with hard-liners. Soames, Grieve and Hammond were especially staunch Tories who were full-throated supporters of austerity and the conservative government. They just disagreed on this one issue. Unless the Lib Dems and Labour can come up with a plan to stop them, the Tories are about to elect some real pieces of work to Parliament.

To put it in American terms, it would be like Sniffles deciding he doesn't like that Rand Paul voted to withdraw support for the war in Yemen, so he kicks Paul out of the GOP and recruits John Smith, a MAGA disciple who will unquestioningly vote however he's told. Even though John Smith is an unknown, Kentucky is red enough that he wins the election anyway, especially since the Democrat and the Green candidate split votes on the left. Rinse and repeat at least 21 more times (likely more by election day).

The silver lining for me is this makes Scottish Independence almost a certainty, so I can claim my citizenship in a few years and not have to worry about being a member of the UK.

Update: Soames has announced that he will not try to stand for election under another party's banner in the upcoming special election. It is possible other MPs will choose to run as Independents or switch to another party to run again. That might be the saving grace for Labour and the Lib Dems in some of these constituencies. That would give Tories who are Remainers and/or not Johnson supporters a place to go rather than not voting at all or voting Tory because they fear Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister.
 
ticapnews said:
He wants an early election. As outlined before, if he can convince the Brexit party and supporters that he is going to (or has) push(ed) the UK out of the EU the Tories win and he remains PM. Subsequent to what I wrote previously, the Brexit Party has said it will not field candidates in the election as long as Boris stays the course. Without any opposition on the right, the Tories might get 350-400 seats as a resurgent Lib Dems party and Labour split the vote. That will more than make up for the loss of the Scottish seats that almost assuredly will flip back to the opposition. This is all going perfectly for Boris. Labour, the Lib Dems, the SNP and the non-bat**** insane faction of the Conservative Party better not be waiting for the buffoon to goof it up. He's been planning this for years. He isn't likely to blow it.
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I don’t see how the Lib-Dems will be splitting votes with Labour. I mean, they still have a heavy stench from their coalition with the Tories and Tories bolting the party to join the Lib-Dems doesn’t help that.

If anything, this just seems to be heading towards a Hung Parliament at this point.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

Jimjamesak said:
I don’t see how the Lib-Dems will be splitting votes with Labour. I mean, they still have a heavy stench from their coalition with the Tories and Tories bolting the party to join the Lib-Dems doesn’t help that.

If anything, this just seems to be heading towards a Hung Parliament at this point.
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I hope you're right. People are celebrating a huge defeat for Johnson and the Leavers tonight, but I fear for what the next few weeks bring. I don't see this ending well. Wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong, but I just have a bad feeling.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

While not being as familiar with UK politics as some of you I don't get the impression that Boris is playing 3 dimensional chess. Back in the 2000's Howard Dean explained the difference between Dems and Goopers, and it could also be applied to liberals and conservatives, like this: Republicans want to tell you 1 thing they know about a couple of issues. Democrats want to tell you everything they know about every issue. Boris seems to be following this rule of keeping it simple and making it sound easy. He's for Brexit come hell or high water, but everything will be just rosy. Its BS of course, especially after it leads to Scotland and later Northern Ireland ditching the UK, but its clear, concise, and he's resolutely not backing off that one opinion. Its up to everybody not on his side to put an end to this circus, or suffer the consequences.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

The UK doesn’t work the same. I learned that much while living there.

Boris had this scenario played out before he came to power. He’s dumb but he’s no trump
 
ticapnews said:
I hope you're right. People are celebrating a huge defeat for Johnson and the Leavers tonight, but I fear for what the next few weeks bring. I don't see this ending well. Wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong, but I just have a bad feeling.
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Imagine if the Continental Congress changed its mind in 1778.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
The UK doesn’t work the same. I learned that much while living there.

Boris had this scenario played out before he came to power. He’s dumb but he’s no trump
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Boris wasn't even in Parliment during today's debate. Not unheard of, but given the weight of the issue one might expect him to be around. Instead he sent Jacob Rees-Mogg, who brought proper seriousness to the proceedings.

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/zfFGH1d/jacob-rees-mogg.jpg" alt="jacob-rees-mogg">

Yes, he was actually lying down on the front bench as other people debated the issue.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

It doesn’t matter
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

mookie1995 said:
link please to the results from the 2nd referendum....
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Link please to the plethora of campaign material from Leave saying that they were going to crash out of Europe without a deal.

I do remember seeing this picture of Boris and a bus but not a lot about a no deal.

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/3Y87Zgg/boris-bus.jpg" alt="boris-bus" border>
 
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