Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

[Federal League]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

All due respect Federal but I have no idea what games you've been watching. As is the general consensus BU's style of play is a boring, defense first, clogged toilet style that they've employed for years. The only time I remember them getting away from that was the one year everybody came into their own and the team was packed with superstars. Even then (and I'm not complaining) but they had to eek out 3 close wins (UNH, VT, Miami) to win the title even though they were far more talented then any of those squads. I have to strongly disagree with the notion that Parker is changing with the times. I just don't see it from where I'm at.

I remember them playing a pretty up-tempo style in 2007-08, too. That was a fun team to watch offensively.

 

[Jofa]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

All I can say is that if this team does not compete as a top 5 or 6 team next year with a solid shot at the FF, then it will have underachieved again making the '08, '10 and '11 results a trend that is more likely to continue while Parker is here. Parker has to win some big games in the big show when his team is not the odds-on favorite. The last time that happened was 1997 vs Michigan in Milwaukee.

Think of this: If they had lost that game in DC vs Miami, or worse had they lost that regional final to UNH (Milan stole that game for us), what would the Parker poster supporters here and the admin be saying today???

This is about as an articulate and right on analysis as I have seen on here about the BU program and Parker. And as you said with the adundance of talent in 2009 far superior to any program that year with a huge amount of veteran leadership they needed luck and help to pull 4 of their last 5 games (Lowell, UNH, VT, Miami) including the miraculous finish to Miami. And you are absolutely right that year brought Parker a free pass for 5-10 more years, thats what I was afraid of and we are starting to see the unintended consequences of the NC. Beautiful commentary and analysis Bantam.

 

[slurpees]

I remember them playing a pretty up-tempo style in 2007-08, too. That was a fun team to watch offensively.

Yeah scoring wasn't the problem on that team I think they were top five in Tue nation in regular season goal scoring. With an average goaltender they team easily makes the tournament.

 

[srsterrier]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

He doesn't go after a ton of these pro types that could be 1 and done or 2 and done but likes to mix them in with a lot of 4 year types to find the right balance so he doesn't get decimated again.

I guess we have some disagreement here [chickod, I wasn't rebuking you. Just disagreeing. I don't have the kind of standing on this board to rebuke anyone].

From my vantage point, it sure looks like York is going after NHL type players consistently. He has successfully recruited top-tier NHL prospects and continues to do that. Just look at who BC has committed right now for the next couple of year. Michael Matheson, Destry Straight, Steven Santini, Brendan Silk, to name just a few. These are players who are viewed as potential high NHL draft picks when the time comes. He has complimented them with role players and some speedier small players, of course but so does Parker [look at the roster. There are quite a few who are definite 4 year players]. Some may leave early like Petrecki did or Kreider will do but so what? York is going after the top players and he is getting them. And while they are at BC, they are usually performing up to expectations. I think Parker once said something like "the best coach is the guy getting off the bus with the best players." Right now, that guy is York.

 

[DaveStPaul]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

Find the BU player!
http://mobilwi.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a6dde087970b0147e3408ec0970b-pi
He's in there.

Hilarious. That template was probably set up two weeks ago, and the slot with Holland's picture was labelled "Cupcake #63, tbd."

 

[DaveStPaul]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

.

You neg repped me? For asking you to stop trolling other teams' threads and making the rest of us look bad? You got some big ballz my friend.

 

[BigRedTerrier]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

Hilarious. That template was probably set up two weeks ago, and the slot with Holland's picture was labelled "Cupcake #63, tbd."

I'm still trying to figure a scenario for my bracket where BU loses and John Holland can advance. I think I could get him to the elite 8 on his own.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

lotta stuff here.....

-both teams recruit nhl players. bc has 11 guys who were drafted (non goalies, same as bu). some rather high too, no?

-bc has had guys leave too (not just post-2001) after winning. gerbe left after 2008 and we all didn't appreciate just how special his was. joe whitney and ben smith had big drop-offs after losing him. and benn ferreiro had a long honeymoon season that followed too. after last year everyone "in the know" thought muse was gone. and while there was a big push for cam and jimmy haynes to go, there was a big benefit for jimmy knowing that his brother kevin was coming and he and cam stayed to play on the team with their brothers, a la gilroy. without a doubt one of those, "there but for the grace of god go i" situations.

-bu has, for almost every season, brought in these 'nhl' types. there have been a number of high draft picks who flamed out, played like there were flipping high, failed to carry a team, or just plan sucked. we've had #39 overall brian mcconnell. 2nd rd danny spang. 3rd round employee #6. pat auferio 3rd rd. brian collins 3rd round.

-bu hockey is forechecking and pressure. sometimes two guys in the zone. they still do that, but they are quick to fall back and fill center ice with five guys far too often when they get a lead. i can close my eyes and still see brian mcconnell dumping and dropping back and pointing to his teammates to set up a trap after going up on pc late one game, only to let up a goal. then of course after the game parker complained that his team let up..... geez, do you really think that mcconnell decided on his own to set up that defense?!? still happens today. ugh
--and all of us know this is how parker thinks. there was an infamous sunday globe story that we all talked about where he went on about goalies being so advanced vs when he started, that you now play to not give up a goal because it's so hard to score. and he added that it's worse when you do give up a goal because it's impossible to score two! or you are in defense mode from the get go.

-he is willing to do other things with the boys with schemes, whatnot. we've seen him change defensive plans and let guys that can skate, skate. but there is the elephant in the room trap that will be employed late in game with leads. much like we know when watching football and see the prevent defense . us smarty pants at home know it only prevents winning, but it still comes - same with bu hockey.

-glad someone else caught that too in the interview on the website where he threw out the "mike may get a job" line. bu hockey is a lot like bu. it's run by people who get power and consolidate it and run it how they want. been like that throughout the silber years and if you were even an outside observer you'd realize that it is nearly Jack Parker University when it comes to the team, the rink, the arena, foh. i would expect (er, hope) bu and bu hockey to be bigger than one man. it's funny when he is asked how long he wants to coach, would you ever imagine him to answer, "as long as the university will have me" or something like that? even if it's assumed that he'll decide when he's done, he'll let you know who is in charge.

-both bc and bu get local kids. but the top talent is going to bc unless there is a reason they want to come to the city end of comm ave. and that is understandable because bc is winning. the last regular season game, when bu pulled the goalie and tried to tie it up late - i noticed that the 6th man in when millan left --was gaudet.. i mean, nice kid. but.

-i've been typing this for years... when mason retired and jack became "winningest active coach" there was a couple page spread in the media guide. then in a blink that was gone, passed by jerry. there.is.no.doubt.in.my.mind he isn't retiring until he is again.

-jerry won at clarkson (as much as clarkson can win) and won at bgsu (as much as anyone can win ). granpie can beat you with his, and take yours and beat you with them. he didn't just figure this out.

-back to the interview on the website, it was interesting that his "guys you'd send on the ice in your own zone" hypothetical question ended up being drury and guys from the 70s.

-bu under parker has historically seen massive, sudden, epic crashes in big games at the end of their season. all those great 70s teams, one title (after getting a gift 'do over' from the ncaa after the loss to pc in the ecac playoffs). the 80s "two game total goals" series vs jerry after bu won game 1 5-1. all those great 90s teams, 9-1 to lssu, 6-1 to lssu, 4-0 to michigan, lose to sioux after going up. not being able to figure out what to do against northern and being saved only by what was no doubt the most talented line ever in college hockey. the 5-0 worcester nightmare in '06. many times we've had to witness teams, "not getting up for it". just remember to praise the lord for colby's 'hand of god' goal in d.c.

 

[bantam75]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

i've been typing this for years... when mason retired and jack became "winningest active coach" there was a couple page spread in the media guide. then in a blink that was gone, passed by jerry. there.is.no.doubt.in.my.mind he isn't retiring until he is again.

-jerry won at clarkson (as much as clarkson can win) and won at bgsu (as much as anyone can win ). granpie can beat you with his, and take yours and beat you with them. he didn't just figure this out.

-bu under parker has historically seen massive, sudden, epic crashes in big games at the end of their season. all those great 70s teams, one title (after getting a gift 'do over' from the ncaa after the loss to pc in the ecac playoffs). the 80s "two game total goals" series vs jerry after bu won game 1 5-1. all those great 90s teams, 9-1 to lssu, 6-1 to lssu, 4-0 to michigan, lose to sioux after going up. not being able to figure out what to do against northern and being saved only by what was no doubt the most talented line ever in college hockey. the 5-0 worcester nightmare in '06. many times we've had to witness teams, "not getting up for it". just remember to praise the lord for colby's 'hand of god' goal in d.c.

All my sentiments EXACTLY. I'm still chuckling about the 'hand of god' goal ... priceless.

I had forgotten to bring up the point about York at Clarkson and BGSU. He has gotten teams at 3 different schools to overachieve and win. Its still hard to believe that Bowling Green won the NC beating Brett Hull's Minny Duluth team. BG has not been to the NCAA since York left.

Jack will never pass York in wins, unless York drops dead or gets fired. Reading this thread these past few days has thoroughly depressed me.

 

[bantam75]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

this is about as an articulate and right on analysis as i have seen on here about the bu program and parker. And as you said with the adundance of talent in 2009 far superior to any program that year with a huge amount of veteran leadership they needed luck and help to pull 4 of their last 5 games (lowell, unh, vt, miami) including the miraculous finish to miami. And you are absolutely right that year brought parker a free pass for 5-10 more years, thats what i was afraid of and we are starting to see the unintended consequences of the nc. Beautiful commentary and analysis bantam.

ty

 

[Jofa]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

I had forgotten to bring up the point about York at Clarkson and BGSU. He has gotten teams at 3 different schools to overachieve and win. Its still hard to believe that Bowling Green won the NC beating Brett Hull's Minny Duluth team. BG has not been to the NCAA since York left.

The 1984 BG team beat BU in a 2 game total goals Qtr final at WBA. BU had a 3 goal cushion I believe going into the 2nd night and lost in OT of the second game when Garry Galley scored. The OT was necessary because the total goals were tied after the 2nd game. That could have been BU's only FF in the 80's.

 

[sterlippo1]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

I think he's needling you...many people like to come on this thread and let us have it now that we have had a poor season. I don't recall seeing them congratulating us when BU won...you will aggravate yourself less if you just ignore them...

i think there were more than a few of us to grudgingly offer congrats

I can't help but think that some of the reactions by BU fans towards the program since 1998 is strongly attributed to its coincidence with the "golden era" of BC hockey. Let's say if, during this same period, BC only won 1 NC, only made 1 FF appearance, only won 2 HE titles, and had a similar overall record as BU, would the reactions/concerns from BU fans be as strong as it has been? Would the calls for changes (head coach, assistant coaches, recruiting, style of play) be as loud as it's been of late?

that's the $68,000 question

You neg repped me? For asking you to stop trolling other teams' threads and making the rest of us look bad? You got some big ballz my friend.

he could never make the rest of you look bad. to me it's no secret that not only do you have many,many good fans that post here and even more that dont but so many of those are knowledgeable fans that love hockey and love BU hockey, not that i get the latter but you get what i'm saying

lotta stuff here.....

gerbe left after 2008 and we all didn't appreciate just how special his was

i must admit and my knowlegde of hockey can be put into a thimble compared to almost all of you but i did know how special he was, even as a freshman, still miss him. the most thrilling player i've ever watched. the human highlight film for sure

Regardless of their results over this decade, bu should be a top5 program every year-- falling to top10 in our off years.

Bottom line.

absolutely

once again, mike milbury collectively ****s us in the ***!!!!

lol, you love to bring milbury up!

and, sorry to be a troll but the BU thread is always great reading, take it as a compliment

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

I have been following BU hockey since 1966 (when Parker was a Sophomore and York a Jr at BC).

I don't go back quite as far as you (1971) - everything you say is right on. As I said before, I don't want to sound blasphemous, so I've kind of gone easy. But you had the courage to say what many of us have been thinking...I guess it sound ridiculous to say they were "lucky" to win in 2009 (primarily because everyone needs SOME amount of luck and things to break their way to win it all); on the other hand, it was the best example I can remember of a team that was almost "destined" to win no matter what. After the Leon Abbott years (or year, or half-year or whatever it was), it was heaven getting Jack. So he was untouchable after they won in '78. Unfortunately, winning in 2009 has made him that way again. I don't want to be accused of piling on...all I can say (which may be totally irrelevant) is that I just think doing ANYTHING for 38 years tends to diminish one's motivation - I don't see how it can't.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

..... it was the best example I can remember of a team that was almost "destined" to win no matter what..

that sounds familiar!

 

[Tater]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

-bu under parker has historically seen massive, sudden, epic crashes in big games at the end of their season. all those great 70s teams, one title (after getting a gift 'do over' from the ncaa after the loss to pc in the ecac playoffs). the 80s "two game total goals" series vs jerry after bu won game 1 5-1. all those great 90s teams, 9-1 to lssu, 6-1 to lssu, 4-0 to michigan, lose to sioux after going up. not being able to figure out what to do against northern and being saved only by what was no doubt the most talented line ever in college hockey. the 5-0 worcester nightmare in '06. many times we've had to witness teams, "not getting up for it". just remember to praise the lord for colby's 'hand of god' goal in d.c.

My god mookie, you are better than the pinheads at depressing BU fans, especially since I was personally at the 9-1 lssu, 0-4 mich., and 6-4 no dak games!! A lot of good points in your post.

Even since that '97 win against Michigan, there hasn't been any NCAA game where BU was even money or underdog that they have won; that is the problem.

To answer a couple of questions. Yes, BC's incredible run has exacerbated BU's shortcomings but still we are looking at a program that is underachieving -- bottom line. BC's success aside, BU is not performing well even to their history.

There have been a number of posts regarding whether BU is 9th-11th or whatever in the last decade. It may seem somewhat impressive, but remember there are only 58 D-I programs, take out the Atlantic Hockey programs and BU has been roughly in the 76-80th percentile of major conference programs. Sorry, not good enough. Almost every program will have down years, but BU should be in the top 8 more often than not.

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

i think there were more than a few of us to grudgingly offer congrats

And I'll be one of the first to offer congrats if the Eagles win again. As I said before, I understand the "rivalry" (obviously, I went to BU) - I don't understand the "hatred." I know there are plenty of people who would shoot me for this, but I would rather see BC win than, say, Michigan or North Dakota. I think that it's prestigious for the league and ultimately helps recruiting and, therefore, raises the level of play and competitiveness. I'm not saying we necessarily have to be "good-natured" about it -it is an emotional topic and all that. And somehow I thought that BC's success would serve as greater motivation for our program...apparently it hasn't worked out that way, or maybe it's just that we are both trying to do the same thing and they're better at it, just as we were in the 70s and 80s. These things DO go in cycles, and that's why I don't have this obsession about being in the "Top 5 every year," but would just like to see some changes to make us more competitive. BTW, sterlippo, my uncle (UNH grad) lives in Bradford (Lexington Ave) - nice area.

 

[defkit]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

This is about as an articulate and right on analysis as I have seen on here about the BU program and Parker. And as you said with the adundance of talent in 2009 far superior to any program that year with a huge amount of veteran leadership they needed luck and help to pull 4 of their last 5 games (Lowell, UNH, VT, Miami) including the miraculous finish to Miami. And you are absolutely right that year brought Parker a free pass for 5-10 more years, thats what I was afraid of and we are starting to see the unintended consequences of the NC. Beautiful commentary and analysis Bantam.

That UNH game was the one that bothered me the most. If you think about it, if you substitue Millan's unbelieveable game with an above average game, we lose, possibly by a couple goals or more, and we would be comparing it to 2006 (blow out a CCHA team in the first round, get thumped by a HE team in the next round.) Without JVR hooking Bonino and whoever it was punching the puck into his own net, maybe we would be reminded of 1998.

Of course, when we actually won the game, I wsa thrilled - first FF since 1997. But in retrospect, we were the better team but we were pretty severaly outplayed in that game.

 

[defkit]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

And I'll be one of the first to offer congrats if the Eagles win again. As I said before, I understand the "rivalry" (obviously, I went to BU) - I don't understand the "hatred." I know there are plenty of people who would shoot me for this, but I would rather see BC win than, say, Michigan or North Dakota. I think that it's prestigious for the league and ultimately helps recruiting and, therefore, raises the level of play and competitiveness.

I know what you mean. In 2001, I chuckled as ND scored twice in the last 3 minutes to force OT, but had a smile on my face when Kolanos scored. I think I just felt that BC really deserved it after what was it, 3 straight FFs with no title? I was happy for York.

Last year, I was glad to see BC win as the underdog. Three in a row for HE is impressive, and that Wisconsin team thought it was their destiny to win it all. Kind of like Morrisson, Botterill and the rest of the Wolverines in 1997.

 

[SteveF]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

I'll give you BC, NoDak, Minnesota, Denver.

Wisconsin
2000: lost NCAA regional final
2001: lost NCAA regional final
2002: missed NCAA tournament
2003: missed NCAA tournament
2004: lost NCAA regional final
2005: lost round 1 NCAA
2006: NC
2007: missed NCAA tournament
2008: lost round 1 NCAA
2009: missed NCAA tournament
2010: lost NC game

Michigan State
2000: Lost round 1 NCAA
2001: FF
2002: Lost round 1 NCAA
2003: missed NCAA tournament
2004: lost round 1 NCAA
2005: missed NCAA tournament
2006: lost NCAA regional final
2007: NC
2008: lost NCAA regional final
2009: missed NCAA tournament
2010: missed NCAA tournament

Not really sure you can make a case that BU is clearly better or worse than those 2.

Maine went 0-5 in Frozen Fours, not sure that's better, but its arguable.
Miami and UNH you're really starting to stretch.

UNH has an equal number of FF appearances, 1 more NCAA appearance, 1 less NC, and fewer NCAA wins (in more appearances). UNH is 5-8 in the NCAAs since 2001. BU is 7-5.
Miami has fewer NCAA appearances, 1 more FF, 1 less NC.

Cornell and CC are not close, unless you are being objectively unreasonable because you are trolling BU threads while sitting in your apartment inside your parents' basement since you have nothing better to do with your time.

you lack all logic and any consistency to your argument, which is sad but not surprising. I will easily give you the 2009 BU team was the strongest national champion of the decade.. but the results of those few games (and season even) dont slant the remainder of the decade. despite all evidence to the contrary Bu is somehow more successful than miami because of one own goal in a game they had no business winning?

My basis was first and foremost wins and then i adjusted up or down for post season success - judged mostly in tournament appearnances (of which everyone is around 6 anyway) and frozen fours (of which everyone was around 1 to 2).

BU had 217 (.604), 2 RS title, 2 Conf, 6 NCAA, 1 FF, 1 NC

so how are cc and cornell not close?
-cc had 240 wins for a .633 win %, 3 RS titles, no conf tournys, 6 NCAA, 1 FF, 0 NC.
-Cornell had 212 wins (.671 win %), 3 conf titles, 3 RS titles, 6 NCAA, 1 FF, 0 NC.
-MSU had 231 wins (.617 win %), 1 RS title, 2 conf title, 6 NCAA, 2 FF, 1 NC.
-Miami had 226 wins (.608), 2 RS title, 0 conf title, 6 NCAA, 2 FF, 0 NC
-Maine had 219 (.601 win %), 0 RS title, 1 Conf title, 7 NCAA, 4 FF, 0 NC.
-UNH had 274 wins (.651 win %), 5 RS title, 2 conf title, 9 NCAA, 2 FF, 0 NC


all these teams have been more consistently good than BU (with the exception of wisconsin and i suppose maine) and been in the ncaa's (as much if not more), and gone to the frozen four (as much if not more). sure you can penalize miami and cc for not winning enough conf tourneys or the 5 teams that didnt win an NC.. but not having that one lucky season that BU had doesnt diminish the overall breadth of their accomplishments. and On no planet was BU consistently more successful than UNH..


I wonder if someone was smart enough to strip away the highest and the lowest season of each of these teams (to remove outliers), what would the new results look like?

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

I wonder if someone was smart enough to strip away the highest and the lowest season of each of these teams (to remove outliers), what would the new results look like?

not necessary... For me, it's not about "who's better" as much as it's about following a team that is always a threat to do something special and provides enjoyment along the way!