Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

[limey]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

So you agree that BU is looking up at Merrimack currently?

My god you're stupid.

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

My god you're stupid.

I think he's needling you...many people like to come on this thread and let us have it now that we have had a poor season. I don't recall seeing them congratulating us when BU won...you will aggravate yourself less if you just ignore them...

 

[pirate]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

For the record, I think BU should be performing at a higher level also. But to say that "You'll see a team compete for HE home ice and compete for the Beanpot and that's it" under Parker is either ignorant or disingenuous. BU has made the NCAAs 7 times since 2001 and (by my quick counting) failed to make the Regional Championship game (e.g., 1 game away from the FF) only twice.

Look, I understand the (over)reaction by some about Parker due to missing the NCAAs last year and likely missing them this year also. However, it would seem that he has still had very consistent success in recent history, so the histrionics about the game having passed him by or evolved beyond him just does not seem to be supported by fact.

Yes, I would like to make the NCAAs every year (although even BC has missed it twice in the past 10 years). Yes, I would like to make at least 3-4 Frozen Fours each decade and have 1-2 NCs to show for it. But the sky-is-falling reaction on this board is not really a fair reflection of what has been a top-10 program over the course of the past decade.

Good points and there aren't many on the "fire parker" bandwagon. But the "we need to do something" bandwagon is pretty crowded. Yesterday I pointed out that I would ask him to come up with the plan for the next 5 years and how he sees this working out. I would focus on getting some new blood in at the AC level. If Bavis stays and Powers goes that may work...the status quo doesn't work for me. The idea that the succession plan is the same crew and they would promote Bavis really concerns me. I'm sure he is a great guy, should be considered for a HC job at a tier 2 or 3 school and then be looking to HC at BU. I thought that is why a few of the other names had left the coop, to go get their stripes and be a candidate for what they all must have figured...JP retires some day.

As for the actual state of the state, with a program like BU, or UNC in bball, ND in football, Texas in baseball I guess, you can't wait until it is obvious to everyone that the wheels have fallen off before you act. There are enough individual events out there that there is reason you can string some together and ask if the direction is improving, declining or staying the same. Even throwing out a few of the negatives as normal bumps in the road...where are the peaks? The number one question I'd ask Parker is "are you happy with the direction of the program?" . Assuming the answer is a qualified yes, I'd ask what he would do to make that a clear yes. I'd eventually ask if he could do the succession plan.

If I had a 42 yer old HC, I'd be ok with Powers as the 'elder statesman' and have Bavis as the 'up and comer'. With Parker I think we've got the elder statesman thing covered. The should have one guy who is ready to take the helm next and the young guy who is going to leave a few years after that to go get his HC experience and come back when the new guy retires. Hockey team, company, volunteer group...I don't like the current makeup of the management team. I doubt Powers is playing Halo with the guys while waiting for the bus to arrive...how many stories of playing without face shields and playing in old barns can the kids withstand?

 

[smyler3]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

Sounds right. Pretty sure Farkas had a role in getting BC out in front. Not sure why I remember that, but I think I watched it on TV trying to see if the Saints could pull off the upset. Nevertheless, BU had some skill but was not a major force. I almost didn't put that team on my list. I think the 98 and 06 teams were better.

Edit: hey what do you know, my memory is pretty good - Farkas got the winner late. Thanks for posting the link ericredaxe (got your name right this time).

ooooohh....Farkas!

 

[Stories]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

Well, that's a nice sentiment but how realistic is it? The "Top 5" was a realistic goal when there were fewer good teams and the sport was more regional. I don't think you can expect that in this day and age. I think all of the disappointment of underachieving this year has exacerbated all of this talk. How could anyone have expected much more from this team? You can't just "reload" every year. It takes time to gell. Before everyone says "BC does it" - that's the point - they DON'T do it. They don't go after "all NHL" players; their players stay longer so the team develops more cohesion and the program has more continuity. If you want BU to be like BC (we're talking about winning here - not in other aspects), we have to stop promoting this "we'll get you to the NHL" mentality. Not only does that attract players that are going to leave, it tends to promote selfishness and a somewhat "detached" attitude. Either we're a college hockey power or an NHL factory - it's difficult to do both. If it were easy, why doesn't North Dakota win every year? They are typically filled with HUGE, NHL style players and play a physical (we won't get into it beyond that - some would say "dirty") style. They've won twice since 1987 (we've won twice since 1995). IMHO, if you want to win in COLLEGE, you won't do it with NHL players (for one thing, the game is called too tight, especially in the East - you'd be in the box all season long). 2009 was a glaring exception, but we had a HUGE collection of NHL players on that team and outstanding leadership.

There's an incredible amount of truth to this post. As of recently, we've shifted towards recruiting a lot of NHL-type talent: guys with a lot of skill and looking at BU as a pitstop for their future careers. Then we have a smattering of guys like Joey P. who don't have a realistic shot at becoming a NHL player, but works his tail off with his blue-collar style. To have a good shot at winning significantly, you need a smattering of guys like this, but recent years has had us losing a bit because of the relatively quick turnover of the players we've brought in. I really like the uptick in raw talent the schools has brought in recently, and while it might be slightly disappointing that we haven't had repeat success like BC, but I think there's as much enjoyment to watch the talent of guys, even if they're still all developing (how many true freshmen do we have playing top-6 and top-4 roles every year?), than watching a bunch of older and less talented guys play. Personally, I like the NHL-talent guys because we have other players to follow and have a vested interest in after they leave BU (how many haven't at least occasionally watched a few Predators, Rangers, Avalanche/Blues, Sharks, or Ducks games since 2009?).

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

My god you're stupid.

Drunk at noon time again limey? It's not very hard to figure out, even for you after a few (dozen) beers. One team is higher than the other in the meaningless polls and the PWR (meaningful non-poll) and every other statistical measure. One is still playing. One is not. Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

[Jofa]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

than watching a bunch of older and less talented guys play.

How about the "older" more talented guys like BC has...

 

[Rover]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

Well, that's a nice sentiment but how realistic is it? The "Top 5" was a realistic goal when there were fewer good teams and the sport was more regional. I don't think you can expect that in this day and age. I think all of the disappointment of underachieving this year has exacerbated all of this talk. How could anyone have expected much more from this team? You can't just "reload" every year. It takes time to gell. Before everyone says "BC does it" - that's the point - they DON'T do it. They don't go after "all NHL" players; their players stay longer so the team develops more cohesion and the program has more continuity. If you want BU to be like BC (we're talking about winning here - not in other aspects), we have to stop promoting this "we'll get you to the NHL" mentality. Not only does that attract players that are going to leave, it tends to promote selfishness and a somewhat "detached" attitude. Either we're a college hockey power or an NHL factory - it's difficult to do both. If it were easy, why doesn't North Dakota win every year? They are typically filled with HUGE, NHL style players and play a physical (we won't get into it beyond that - some would say "dirty") style. They've won twice since 1987 (we've won twice since 1995). IMHO, if you want to win in COLLEGE, you won't do it with NHL players (for one thing, the game is called too tight, especially in the East - you'd be in the box all season long). 2009 was a glaring exception, but we had a HUGE collection of NHL players on that team and outstanding leadership.

Do you think at some point though his style of play and inability to motivate is part of the problem with players not "gelling" in time to win? Because they don't seem to be having that problem up at BC. I also have to reject the "NHL type" player argument. Either you get the kids to play hard and bring out the best in them or you don't. York does, Parker doesn't do it as well. It it harder to win it all nowadays, no doubt about it. However, they should regularly be in the mix. One game away from the regional title game as limey put it just doesn't cut it for me. Who really thought outside of their one NC that any of those BU teams were Frozen Four material? 2006 was Curry or bust, much like 2000 was DiPietro or bust. It wasn't a "team" built for a title, as evidenced by their no goal effort in the game they got bounced in.

So from the 90's to now, the team went from regular FF and title contender/probable HE tourney winner/definite Beanpot winner to FF participant once every decade/HE tourney winner 2 times every decade/2nd most likely Beanpot winner after arch rival. This is progress?

To the poster who asked if Parker doesn't care, its more of I think he's stubborn in thinking that the game will come back around to the way he thinks it should be played. Again with the Harry Sinden analogy running the Bruins. A lot of these older guys don't want to give up the idea that the game they played is the way it should be now, some 3 to 4 decades later. The problem is sadly that the game will not return most likely to their preferred method, and they will continue to refuse to adapt. Its not hard to figure how that will end up.

 

[claver2010]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

while it might be slightly disappointing that we haven't had repeat success like BC, but I think there's as much enjoyment to watch the talent of guys, even if they're still all developing (how many true freshmen do we have playing top-6 and top-4 roles every year?), than watching a bunch of older and less talented guys play.

I assume by "older" you mean by class and not age, BC has the youngest team in the country for the 2nd year in a row.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

Look, I understand the (over)reaction by some about Parker due to missing the NCAAs last year and likely missing them this year also. However, it would seem that he has still had very consistent success in recent history,

Yes, I would like to make the NCAAs every year (although even BC has missed it twice in the past 10 years).

Umm, I don't think missing the NCAA's 3 out of the past 4 years is "recent" sucess

BC missed it twice in 10 years and BU will miss it twice in two years...

You are not helping your argument by citing facts.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

BU has made the NCAAs 7 times since 2001 and (by my quick counting) failed to make the Regional Championship game (e.g., 1 game away from the FF) only twice.

Wooooooooooooooooo.

I think clearly there is a line of standards and either you have high standards and are on one side of the line or have low standards and are on limey's side of the line. Regional championship game participants! Do they have a banner at Agganis for that?

But the sky-is-falling reaction on this board is not really a fair reflection of what has been a top-10 program over the course of the past decade.

Top 10 top 10 top 10 top 10. Plenty debatable. There are 10 other programs out there with more wins in the past decade. That places BU around the 81st percentile. No?

 

[mpereira]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

There's an incredible amount of truth to this post. As of recently, we've shifted towards recruiting a lot of NHL-type talent: guys with a lot of skill and looking at BU as a pitstop for their future careers. Then we have a smattering of guys like Joey P. who don't have a realistic shot at becoming a NHL player, but works his tail off with his blue-collar style. To have a good shot at winning significantly, you need a smattering of guys like this, but recent years has had us losing a bit because of the relatively quick turnover of the players we've brought in. I really like the uptick in raw talent the schools has brought in recently, and while it might be slightly disappointing that we haven't had repeat success like BC, but I think there's as much enjoyment to watch the talent of guys, even if they're still all developing (how many true freshmen do we have playing top-6 and top-4 roles every year?), than watching a bunch of older and less talented guys play. Personally, I like the NHL-talent guys because we have other players to follow and have a vested interest in after they leave BU (how many haven't at least occasionally watched a few Predators, Rangers, Avalanche/Blues, Sharks, or Ducks games since 2009?).

I agree with this post. It is always nice to throw on an NHL game and see a former Terrier on the ice especially when Shatty was at the All-Star weekend. You do need to find that fine line of NHL guys and grinders like Pereira,Connolly,..etc. Obviously the big guys like Gryba aren't the most skilled on the offensive end of the ice so they tend to stay four years even though Gryba was drafted and he was the lone solid leader on that team last year I thought. I think next year's team seems to have that mix as did this year's team. Next year we don't have any freshman coming in who are first round picks I don't think unless Hohmann is considered a high draft pick. Obviously Coyle, Nieto, and Clendening are fairly high draft picks but I don't see either Nieto or Clendening leaving after next year. Coyle has one or two years left if he stays for next year which I believe he will but I don't see anyone else on this team besides Warso or Chiasson leaving early in the next couple years.

 

[mpereira]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

So you agree that BU is looking up at Merrimack currently?

I do as of now but based on the regular season alone...no we finished higher in conference and they played a much weaker Non-conf schedule so that is basically a toss-up which side of the argument you want to take and we know which side you are going to take. But ill agree with you if you agree that BC looked up to Lowell in 09...deal?

 

[TommyNoblesIsLife]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

I think something few people have addressed and that I am personally concerned about for next year is a lack of leadership among the players. The talent level among these players is there. The maturity and the desire to win at BU amongst the players is, in my opinion, lacking.

At the end of the day, I don't honestly think Parker's age is a problem. I don't see how Jerry York at age 65 is able to connect with his players any better than Parker is at age 66. I don't think either of them are sitting around playing video games or hanging out with their players. That's not really their job. They aren't there to be friends. They're there to be coaches, instructors, teachers, guides.

On the team itself, I don't see too many players taking personal accountability for the team's successes and failures. I don't see anybody - or even a group of guys - on the current team who is a centralizing figure. For seniors next year, there's Connolly, Warsofsky(if he doesn't leave), Trivino, Gilroy, Millan and Rollheiser. I don't think any of those guys has what it takes to get a team properly motivated and driven for the season. They're all pretty soft-spoken guys.

In the upcoming junior class, there's Chiasson (if he stays), Ruikka, Nicastro, Rosen, Santana, Megan, Courtnall, Escobedo and Gaudet. The only guys I could really see there in terms of possibly being leaders are Chiasson and Gaudet, and I think Chiasson is too chippy and tempermental to really make a good leader.

Maybe I'm the only one here who thinks the problem isn't just Parker, but in terms of the team's performance, I think it's really important to look at the actual players themselves.

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

Do you think at some point though his style of play and inability to motivate is part of the problem with players not "gelling" in time to win?

The problem is sadly that the game will not return most likely to their preferred method, and they will continue to refuse to adapt.

You bring up several good points. I wasn't going to even get into the whole Bruins analogy, but now that you mention it, it is somewhat applicable. This whole "Big Bad Bruins" mentality, that we're going to bash your heads in and be "tougher" than you has been pervasive in the organization for 40 years. Guess what? The game changed ages ago. It's a SKATING game now. The Bruins are perplexed at how they do well in the regular season and then flame out in the playoffs. Well, it's not hard to figure out. They don't have enough guys who can SKATE, CREATE SPACE and PUT THE PUCK IN THE NET. Sound familiar? That's kind of my point. Does BC have big, tough, lumbering players? I don't think so. Does BU like to bang, "finish checks right through defensemen" (while the puck is up the ice with a two on one)? Do they play the "possession" game, with at least two guys behind the net cycling over and over? And how much of all this talk is really that BU is just BORING to watch? What would YOU rather watch? BC moving the puck to open ice, skating and creating, getting pressure and shots all over the place, or BU who tries to control the puck, make pinpoint tape-to-tape passes for back-door tip-ins and continually throws the puck backwards instead of ahead and gets outshot by large margins in every game? Maybe motivation is an issue (and I have addressed this previously - they shouldn't NEED external motivation - period - unless, or course, they're concerned only about their upcoming NHL careers), but to me it still comes down to the type of players that are recruited. It's funny, because I can remember the days when BU was the small, "quick" team who had to outskate the "Big Bad Bruins" (bullies) from the WCHA. Now BU seems to like to bang and throw their weight around. When and why did this change? In my opinion, it was when Parker decided that he had to recruit the prototypical NHL style player, which meant he abandoned the skating game in favor of big guys who could dig in the corners and possess the puck. Apparently, when the goalie equipment controversy occured a few years ago, he must have assumed that since goals would be so difficult to come by, he would have to change to a more "goal prevention" mentality. The problem is, I think that was temporary. To me, college hockey is all about skating (because as I said before, you can't win with a goon team because the penalties are called much tighter - at least in the East). I just think it's a matter of recruiting the right "type" of player, as I said before.

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

I think it's really important to look at the actual players themselves.

or the people who recruit them...

 

[srsterrier]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

Well, that's a nice sentiment but how realistic is it? The "Top 5" was a realistic goal when there were fewer good teams and the sport was more regional. I don't think you can expect that in this day and age. I think all of the disappointment of underachieving this year has exacerbated all of this talk. How could anyone have expected much more from this team? You can't just "reload" every year. It takes time to gell. Before everyone says "BC does it" - that's the point - they DON'T do it. They don't go after "all NHL" players; their players stay longer so the team develops more cohesion and the program has more continuity. If you want BU to be like BC (we're talking about winning here - not in other aspects), we have to stop promoting this "we'll get you to the NHL" mentality. Not only does that attract players that are going to leave, it tends to promote selfishness and a somewhat "detached" attitude. Either we're a college hockey power or an NHL factory - it's difficult to do both. If it were easy, why doesn't North Dakota win every year? They are typically filled with HUGE, NHL style players and play a physical (we won't get into it beyond that - some would say "dirty") style. They've won twice since 1987 (we've won twice since 1995). IMHO, if you want to win in COLLEGE, you won't do it with NHL players (for one thing, the game is called too tight, especially in the East - you'd be in the box all season long). 2009 was a glaring exception, but we had a HUGE collection of NHL players on that team and outstanding leadership.

I don't agree. BC goes after NHL players the same way BU does. Have you looked at their roster or their list of committed recruits lately? Both schools are going after the best players they can find and often compete for the same guys (with BC winning the majority of those battles lately). Both schools also go after their share of recruits who they know will stay for the full four years. As for North Dakota, they don't win the whole thing too often but they are always in it. Should they be recruiting some more definite 4-year players? Do they need a different coach to get them over the top? I don't know but in most years, their fans get a championship caliber team and that is all that you can really ask for.

And this isn't an issue of reloading every year. That is preciesly the problem. BU hasn't been reloading because lately, for the most part, they have not had a dominant team in the first place. BU did not make the tournament at all last year. Or in 08'. In 07' they had a first round exit. I think many of us could live with a rebuilding season once in a while if it came on the heels of a stretch of strong seasons. That kind of consistency has been missing for a while.

 

[Stories]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

In my opinion, it was when Parker decided that he had to recruit the prototypical NHL style player, which meant he abandoned the skating game in favor of big guys who could dig in the corners and possess the puck. Apparently, when the goalie equipment controversy occured a few years ago, he must have assumed that since goals would be so difficult to come by, he would have to change to a more "goal prevention" mentality. The problem is, I think that was temporary. To me, college hockey is all about skating (because as I said before, you can't win with a goon team because the penalties are called much tighter - at least in the East). I just think it's a matter of recruiting the right "type" of player, as I said before.

I'd also like to add that I think Parker has changed up the style of play a little bit because of the direction the pro game is, too. There's still plenty of skating (look at our d-men and the offensive accumen. They're all, for the most part, fairly mobile with good passing skills.), but our forwards have become stronger along the boards in recent years. Get the puck out of your own zone and get it deep into the offensive zone as soon as possible. This would make it more attractive for NHL-caliber forwards to come to the team, I think.

Although, I do think, that Parker may want the guys to play too much of a skilled, pro-style game that might be a bit of a learning curve for many of the guys coming out of high school/prep schools. Probably less of a jump for guys coming from the junior leagues since these guys have faced higher levels of competition where they didn't just skate around all the other players.

 

[pirate]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

I think something few people have addressed and that I am personally concerned about for next year is a lack of leadership among the players. The talent level among these players is there. The maturity and the desire to win at BU amongst the players is, in my opinion, lacking.

At the end of the day, I don't honestly think Parker's age is a problem. I don't see how Jerry York at age 65 is able to connect with his players any better than Parker is at age 66. I don't think either of them are sitting around playing video games or hanging out with their players. That's not really their job. They aren't there to be friends. They're there to be coaches, instructors, teachers, guides.

On the team itself, I don't see too many players taking personal accountability for the team's successes and failures. I don't see anybody - or even a group of guys - on the current team who is a centralizing figure. For seniors next year, there's Connolly, Warsofsky(if he doesn't leave), Trivino, Gilroy, Millan and Rollheiser. I don't think any of those guys has what it takes to get a team properly motivated and driven for the season. They're all pretty soft-spoken guys.

In the upcoming junior class, there's Chiasson (if he stays), Ruikka, Nicastro, Rosen, Santana, Megan, Courtnall, Escobedo and Gaudet. The only guys I could really see there in terms of possibly being leaders are Chiasson and Gaudet, and I think Chiasson is too chippy and tempermental to really make a good leader.

Maybe I'm the only one here who thinks the problem isn't just Parker, but in terms of the team's performance, I think it's really important to look at the actual players themselves.

The age thing is what I was trying to get at earlier with the comments about how York didn't suddenly learn how to coach and parker didn't suddenly forget, yet their fortunes seemed to have switched...their individual styles may be suited for different times and different types of athletes. Desire to change that style could be a factor of experience vs. raw age but obviously the two are correlated. I want to be careful about getting all my info from this board but the impression I get is that both are really great from a knowledge standpoint but that York is more easy going.

What the sox needed a few years back was Francona, an easy going guy...the Phillies have Charlie Manuel, a players coach. If you have the talent like BC and BU have, and players can choose where to go more than the day when all MA guys went to MA schools and nobody from MN was coming to BU, then why not go to the place where you win and it seems more cordial?

For the video game comment, that wasn't meant to be literal...just a nod to the gneration gap between powers and a 19 year old.

Lastly, Parker is 100% responsible for every kid on the team, he recruited them...his job is to build a team, not a collection of stars; if he is less likely to pick up on character issues, for whatever reason, that is a job performance issue. Unless we're saying the kids showed up in great form and have regressed.

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University Part IV: Off-Season or New Season?

I don't agree. BC goes after NHL players the same way BU does.

Fair enough...so would you say it is simply a matter of style of play, then? What is the "missing link?"