Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

[pirate]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Not that this makes any sense, but I didn't expect an intelligent retort from you. You surely didn't disappoint.



Man alive, you love doing this. You love making things way more complicated than they need to be. Parker didn't make any official diagnosis. He simply gave an opinion of thinking Trivino has a drinking problem. After a 3rd alcohol related offense, there would be no lawyers involved if a player was simply kicked off the team, so there would be no lawyers involved if a player was given an OPTION of staying on the team by seeking help. That is not against the law.

Really, he can't tell the parents anything? Wasn't it reported that he called Trivino's parents?

The real world is complicated. It's why the instruction manual for your toaster is 30 pages long and tells you not to use it plugged in while in the bathtub.

Initially, you make my point for me, Parker can't make a diagnosis, so he can't declare somebody has a drinking problem...you are right, he can offer an opinion. Are you suggesting he kick a player off the team and revoke his scholarship because, in his opinion, the kid has a drinking problem? He probably could try, and may be successful. The university lawyer would likely recommend he not go out on that limb. If they have a rule that says 3 school related drinking offenses and you are kicked off a team, then he could have done that provided the rule is applied equally across all players. He can't make it up on the fly for each kid.

As for the law, if you think all lawsuits are related to what is, and isn't, against the law, you need to get out more.

And yes, really, there are specific laws regarding what a school or adminstrator can or can't disclose to parents. Ask any college parent if they can call up the school and get a copy of grades, a summary of dorm infractions etc. faxed to them. Doesn't matter if you pay the whole boat in cash, you can't get the info without the student's approval. In an emergency certain of the rules can be bypassed. If you live in alaska and your kid goes to Miami, there can be accommodations made. Otherwise, parental access to all academic, disciplinary etc. type 'educational records' are subject to written approval from the student, even if they are Doogie Howser.

Parker can call parents, sure, and he may disclose a lot of info that a lawyer would suggest not be communicated. If Trivino violated a specific campus code of conduct while using drugs or alcohol it can disclosed, but isn't required to be communicated. Getting drunk a lot wouldn't be a violation of a school code of conduct per se (especially if you are over 21), streaking through the quad (and getting caught) would be.

I'm not saying I agree with that, but it is the case.

Thank the ABA.

 

[Humanoid]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

The real world is complicated. It's why the instruction manual for your toaster is 30 pages long and tells you not to use it plugged in while in the bathtub.

Initially, you make my point for me, Parker can't make a diagnosis, so he can't declare somebody has a drinking problem...you are right, he can offer an opinion. Are you suggesting he kick a player off the team and revoke his scholarship because, in his opinion, the kid has a drinking problem? He probably could try, and may be successful. The university lawyer would likely recommend he not go out on that limb. If they have a rule that says 3 school related drinking offenses and you are kicked off a team, then he could have done that provided the rule is applied equally across all players. He can't make it up on the fly for each kid.

As for the law, if you think all lawsuits are related to what is, and isn't, against the law, you need to get out more.

And yes, really, there are specific laws regarding what a school or adminstrator can or can't disclose to parents. Ask any college parent if they can call up the school and get a copy of grades, a summary of dorm infractions etc. faxed to them. Doesn't matter if you pay the whole boat in cash, you can't get the info without the student's approval. In an emergency certain of the rules can be bypassed. If you live in alaska and your kid goes to Miami, there can be accommodations made. Otherwise, parental access to all academic, disciplinary etc. type 'educational records' are subject to written approval from the student, even if they are Doogie Howser.

Parker can call parents, sure, and he may disclose a lot of info that a lawyer would suggest not be communicated. If Trivino violated a specific campus code of conduct while using drugs or alcohol it can disclosed, but isn't required to be communicated. Getting drunk a lot wouldn't be a violation of a school code of conduct per se (especially if you are over 21), streaking through the quad (and getting caught) would be.

I'm not saying I agree with that, but it is the case.

Thank the ABA.

Is BU a wet campus? If it's dry, then drinking is outlawed on all grounds (I experienced that at UMass, which was a "dry campus"....even though clearly UMass students are soaking in suds as much as possible), and the information is sent home in the event of an infraction. But if the campus allows for of-age drinking, then you're right... a school can't do squat to send that information home.

At least in this case. And yes, while someone might think that's unintelligent, that's drawing off two schools' direct by-laws.

 

[pirate]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

He cant tell the parents but he can tell the school paper?

Cant kick off for several drinking violations or suspend for such, OR make sit out until he does but can toss Glass for not telling someone he wasnt going to an optional work out?

Ok

Any chance one of those events took place after the police arrested him, it was public information and the kid was no longer a player/student?

Any chance the laws protecting student privacy could only apply to students and also not apply to public records?

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

I don't think Parker talked about school violations. He talked about team violations. Team violations are probably not covered by the school violation section.

 

[Humanoid]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

I don't think Parker talked about school violations. He talked about team violations. Team violations are probably not covered by the school violation section.

I just assumed they were the same. Or at least very similar.

 

[defkit]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Am I the only one who is surprised that Brendan Walsh's name hasn't come up in this debate? Showing up for an early morning punishment run with a beer in your hand (or was it just on his breath?), and then being incredulous that you got kicked off the team...

 

[Federal League]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Is BU a wet campus? If it's dry, then drinking is outlawed on all grounds (I experienced that at UMass, which was a "dry campus"....even though clearly UMass students are soaking in suds as much as possible), and the information is sent home in the event of an infraction. But if the campus allows for of-age drinking, then you're right... a school can't do squat to send that information home.

Students over 21 are allowed to have a six-pack of beer and/or one liter of another kind of alcohol in their room. Aside from the few people I knew who didn't drink at all, I don't know anyone who actually adhered to that policy.

 

[claver2010]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Is BU a wet campus? If it's dry, then drinking is outlawed on all grounds (I experienced that at UMass, which was a "dry campus"....even though clearly UMass students are soaking in suds as much as possible), and the information is sent home in the event of an infraction. But if the campus allows for of-age drinking, then you're right... a school can't do squat to send that information home.

At least in this case. And yes, while someone might think that's unintelligent, that's drawing off two schools' direct by-laws.

Wait a UMass grad thinks every college student has a drinking problem? It all makes sense!

 

[ericredaxe]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

So..... anyone making the trip out to Notre Dame? It's on Versus, so that sealed the deal for me not to go.

I was initially thinking about it, but the New Years Eve date makes it tough for me.

I'm hoping that once they are in Hockey East, we will play them out there early in the season sometime and the trip can be coupled with a ND home football game. (Although that might be a pipe dream since non-conference games may fill up the early part of the schedule rather than conference games).

 

[joen05]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

I was initially thinking about it, but the New Years Eve date makes it tough for me.

I'm hoping that once they are in Hockey East, we will play them out there early in the season sometime and the trip can be coupled with a ND home football game. (Although that might be a pipe dream since non-conference games may fill up the early part of the schedule rather than conference games).

I would go if there was the possibility of a football game with it. And if the game was at a better time of the year.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Am I the only one who is surprised that Brendan Walsh's name hasn't come up in this debate? Showing up for an early morning punishment run with a beer in your hand (or was it just on his breath?), and then being incredulous that you got kicked off the team...

Hey, I mentioned Walshie!!!

The real world is complicated. It's why the instruction manual for your toaster is 30 pages long and tells you not to use it plugged in while in the bathtub.

Initially, you make my point for me, Parker can't make a diagnosis, so he can't declare somebody has a drinking problem...you are right, he can offer an opinion. Are you suggesting he kick a player off the team and revoke his scholarship because, in his opinion, the kid has a drinking problem? He probably could try, and may be successful. The university lawyer would likely recommend he not go out on that limb. If they have a rule that says 3 school related drinking offenses and you are kicked off a team, then he could have done that provided the rule is applied equally across all players. He can't make it up on the fly for each kid.

Look, the last thing I want to do is get into a long winded battle with you about the law, etc. I realize that the world is complicated. That doesn't mean we have to over-complicate everything. I'm not suggesting he kick Trivino off after his third alcohol related offense because he diagnosed him with a drinking problem. I'm suggesting he could have booted Trivino for his third related alcohol offense/violation of team/Parker's rules. Stop right there. It's that simple. Jack Parker has shown kids the door for far less than three alcohol related incidents. Do you have inside info on whether or not lawyers got involved in those cases? My guess is no. It's his program. I find it incredibly naive to think Parker would face any difficulty booting Trivino for three alcohol related incidents. I just don't/won't buy it.

 

[BUPhD]

Wait a UMass grad thinks every college student has a drinking problem? It all makes sense!

There's no indication there that he graduated.

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

How does saying he should have been booted after the THIRD violation equate to before he actually committed a violation?

Sorry, I meant to say "arrest," not violation. Because we can't verify violations - those are typically internal and what we think we know is mostly heresy (irrespective of those who have "access" to the teams). So we don't really know what's going on behind closed doors. This incident warranted stronger action because (as we have seen recently across the country) it would be pretty hard to "deny" or "cover up" this situation. If every "violation" warranted getting thrown off the team, there wouldn't be too many Division I players left, IMO.

 

[pirate]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Hey, I mentioned Walshie!!!



Look, the last thing I want to do is get into a long winded battle with you about the law, etc. I realize that the world is complicated. That doesn't mean we have to over-complicate everything. I'm not suggesting he kick Trivino off after his third alcohol related offense because he diagnosed him with a drinking problem. I'm suggesting he could have booted Trivino for his third related alcohol offense/violation of team/Parker's rules. Stop right there. It's that simple. Jack Parker has shown kids the door for far less than three alcohol related incidents. Do you have inside info on whether or not lawyers got involved in those cases? My guess is no. It's his program. I find it incredibly naive to think Parker would face any difficulty booting Trivino for three alcohol related incidents. I just don't/won't buy it.

No problem.

More and more we see coaches (as they are so public) that are either putting their foot in their mouth or refusing to comment on anything. Boeheim? Talk around my water cooler would be that he should have said nothing, had no opinion other than "these are shocking revelations and I'll reserve comment until all the facts are known". Boring, not talk radio or board material...but given what has happened since he opened his mouth, I'm sure he wishes he had done just that.

It may be complicated for JoePa, Boeheim, Tressel or Parker that they can't do what they have done for decades, they do have to run stuff by compliance people and lawyers that they used to do without a second thought. Their agents should do a better job of reigning them in and making sure they know how to handle the sudden revelation type stuff.

I think I said that Parker may have been able to do just what you suggest...and we don't need to have a supreme court debate on it...my point is that it isn't as clear cut as many have suggested, nor is it without risk. And it is possible that his personal, and the school's, risk dictated that he be very cautious about judgment calls regarding 21 year old getting drunk.

If a kid does something clear cut and clearly against the team/school rules it makes it easier. So, kicking in the vending machine or punching a roommate is 'cleaner' than "I think you may have a drinking problem".

May sound crazy but if you ask anyone who has dealt with potential substance abuse issues at work, it is a minefield. You'd rather have 10 people steal something than 1 person that you suspect has a dependency problem creeping into the workplace.

On occasion we all parse words to determine what someone means...when you use "incredibly naive" and "face any difficulty" I still sense that you underestimate the risks and ramifications. But I have no interest in trying to change your mind.

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

dont throw off, just dont dress

I'm guessing that he had already done that but it didn't make much difference, did it?

 

[pirate]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

http://www.cspinet.org/booze/collfact1.htm

Maybe all college kids, UMass or otherwise, don't have drinking problems but it ain't like you'd have to look far to find one that does.

 

[steakbomb]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Who is this 'HOKYDAD' you speak of?

 

[goblue]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

As Irishfan85 just wrote, drunk driving, whether you make it home or kill someone in the process, is nothing more than very, very bad judgement and it can happen to pretty much anyone that drinks. Rape on the other hand is a premeditated heinous crime. Decent people have killed while driving drunk, decent people don't rape other human beings. Not even close, sorry.....

I disagree in the situation -- Trivino was extremely intoxicated, and therefore it couldn't be premeditated. His judgement was impaired, no matter what (at least after he started imbibing. He exhibited extremely poor judgement getting loaded in the first place, what with Parker's stated consequences hanging over his head.)

 

[Humanoid]

Thanks for the clarifications on the BU policy.

Back to my original question. You got a BU team that needs to circle the wagons quickly. Does that galvanize them into a collective unit or what? What happens to the lines and where do they go from here?

Like I said earlier - I had my fun with the popped collar and madras shorts of Chestnut Hill earlier. I won't dignify the UMass jokes with a response. The view at ground level is just as fine as it is in your ivory tower.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

There's no indication there that he graduated.

LOLed...very good point.

Sorry, I meant to say "arrest," not violation. Because we can't verify violations - those are typically internal and what we think we know is mostly heresy (irrespective of those who have "access" to the teams). So we don't really know what's going on behind closed doors. This incident warranted stronger action because (as we have seen recently across the country) it would be pretty hard to "deny" or "cover up" this situation. If every "violation" warranted getting thrown off the team, there wouldn't be too many Division I players left, IMO.

Well, in this case we certainly can verify violations. Parker said as much. Let me ask you this...you guys (BU in general) get a lot out of Parker when it comes to the media (quotes, etc.). Do you prefer that he tends to publicize violations or would you rather he be Bill Belichick about it? Just curious. I was under the impression that most if not all of Trivino's transgressions were made public in the past. Regardless, by no means am I saying every violation warranted getting booted. We're specifically talking about an accumulation here.