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Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

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Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

You can't truly get someone help until they are willing to accept help for themselves.

Trivino wouldn't accept that he had a problem, so he refused to get help.
Parker sets the rules and drew a line in the sand. Short of an intervention, there isn't much more that a coach can do - or maybe even should do - with a young man who is an adult, even if his behavior doesn't always reflect it.

The fact that Trivino had three prior alcohol-related incidents, and the stand that Parker took, shows that they didn't give up on him, which is a way of trying to help him.
The Parker-bashers can say that this is because they still wanted him as a player. Those involved in coaching and education would say otherwise.

Athletic departments and coaches set rules, regulations, standards of behavior and conduct. The athletes need to know what they are, what the consequences are of not living within them, and it is up to them to behave responsibly.
This should not be about babysitting or hand-holding, but helping them to grow into responsible and productive adults.

Coaches need to be fair, to be consistent and to care.
In this case, Parker did all of things. And he was decisive, which is a real teaching moment when it comes to hard lessons learned.
 
Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

J.D. said:
You can't say that. Just like I can't say it would have. The thought it that kicking him off the team and revoking his scholarship so close to graduating would be the wake up call he truly needed.
Click to expand...

But there is also just as rational of a thought that if Parker did this based on some relatively minor alcohol violation, one not involving police, or an arrest, or very serious charges, it would have lead to Corey getting more ****ed off because he thought he got kicked off for some BS reason, and it would've only compounded his alcohol problem.
 
Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

He cant tell the parents but he can tell the school paper?

Cant kick off for several drinking violations or suspend for such, OR make sit out until he does but can toss Glass for not telling someone he wasnt going to an optional work out?

Ok
 
Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

J.D. said:
Well, it would have prevented the incident from happening at BU, no? I am not blaming Jack Parker for what happened. I just don't have a problem with people who support the scenarios I've presented. As you said, neither side is right/wrong.
Click to expand...

It's possible it may not have happened at BU, but that is saying Parker doesn't let him play AND takes away his scholarship, which I don't think he (could?) would do without a major incident such as one that happened. It still may have happened. I don't know about the conditions on taking away a player's scholarship. Based on past players who have been removed from the team without major incident, they have been able to (or at least given the option to) keep their scholarships.
 
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Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Humanoid said:
Hey at least I've accomplished something then. I'm sure when I put this on my resume, it'll be among my prouder accomplishments, right next to inventor of inflatable dartboard and "BC fan"
Click to expand...

Not that this makes any sense, but I didn't expect an intelligent retort from you. You surely didn't disappoint.

pirate said:
Let me ask you this...if your son or daughter told you that their coach, not a psychologist, social worker or doctor, but a hockey coach, had diagnosed them with a drinking problem and was threatening to take away their scholarship, which could cost them their NHL future, unless they conformed to his solution for this diagnosis, what would you do? Any chance you have your lawyer on your speed dial?

I've had this argument with people on here before, Parker also can't tell the parents any of this information...the player is an adult and there are privacy laws all over the place.
Click to expand...

Man alive, you love doing this. You love making things way more complicated than they need to be. Parker didn't make any official diagnosis. He simply gave an opinion of thinking Trivino has a drinking problem. After a 3rd alcohol related offense, there would be no lawyers involved if a player was simply kicked off the team, so there would be no lawyers involved if a player was given an OPTION of staying on the team by seeking help. That is not against the law.

Really, he can't tell the parents anything? Wasn't it reported that he called Trivino's parents?
 
Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

J.D. said:
Well, it would have prevented the incident from happening at BU, no? I am not blaming Jack Parker for what happened. I just don't have a problem with people who support the scenarios I've presented. As you said, neither side is right/wrong.
Click to expand...

Sure, it wouldn't have happened at BU, and maybe that would've been better for BU, but it appears Parker was more interested in the well-being of his player, and he made his best effort to get help for his player within his own system and his program. Was it a bit of a risk for the university? Probably. But he placed the well-being of his player ahead of a university's public image, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
 
Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Hokydad said:
He cant tell the parents but he can tell the school paper?

Cant kick off for several drinking violations or suspend for such, OR make sit out until he does but can toss Glass for not telling someone he wasnt going to an optional work out?

Ok
Click to expand...

Apples and oranes. First, do we know he didn't tell Trivino's parents? No. Second, Glass was kicked off the team because apparently he was exhibiting that he didn't really care that he was on the team, and taking it for granted, in addition to breaking team rules with respect to missing functions, etc. I'll give you it was a bit of a questionable decision by Parker, but comparing Glass and Trivino's cases is not at all a fair comparison.
 
Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Interesting quotes/comments.



"Parker said it isn’t the first time Trivino has been involved in alcohol-related incidents"

“I had to get rid of Corey Trivino from our hockey team because I’d given him a warning in September that if he had another alcohol-related incident on or off campus, I would remove him from the team and take away his scholarship,’’ said Parker

Parker said he tried on more than one occasion to get Trivino to agree to alcohol counseling, but Trivino refused.

“I tried to get him to get some help,’’ said Parker. “I tried to get him to talk to some people regarding an alcohol problem.

"I know he’s a good kid and that’s not Corey’s M.O. except when he’s drinking. Some people can’t drink, he’s one of them.’’

“This has nothing to do with BU, this has to do with me,’’ said Parker. “He’s kicked out of school because I took his scholarship away. He can’t come back because he doesn’t have any money. BU hasn’t done a thing to him yet. They’ll talk to the girl and they’ll talk to Corey and they’ll make a decision on what his punishment will be, if any.

“My actions have taken BU’s actions out of the picture. They can’t do anything more to him than I’ve already done to him. They can’t kick him out of school, he’s not going to be here. I don’t mean that as good or bad, it’s just a fact."


And you want people to believe he should not have been told, "go to the drinking program or don't play, period"
 
Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

brassbonanza said:
Apples and oranes. First, do we know he didn't tell Trivino's parents? No. Second, Glass was kicked off the team because apparently he was exhibiting that he didn't really care that he was on the team, and taking it for granted, in addition to breaking team rules with respect to missing functions, etc. I'll give you it was a bit of a questionable decision by Parker, but comparing Glass and Trivino's cases is not at all a fair comparison.
Click to expand...

Not comparing the 2. Simply saying they can dismiss if they want and dont seem to care about attorneys. Also, someone said confidential rasons would keep from telling parents. Apparently no concern there or we wouldnt have interviws so blunt in paper.
 
Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Hokydad said:
He cant tell the parents but he can tell the school paper?

Cant kick off for several drinking violations or suspend for such, OR make sit out until he does but can toss Glass for not telling someone he wasnt going to an optional work out?
Click to expand...
I am not going to get into this "telling the parents" thing. After all, for all we know, he did tell them.

Comparing the Glass situation to Trivino is fair, and Parker did the same thing in each of them. After a couple of minor infractions, Parker gave each of them one last chance. Both Trivino and Glass committed another violation despite that warning, and both were immediately kicked off the team. And, for the record, Trivino was forced to sit out for his prior offenses.

J.D. said:
Coach-player is not the same as father-son, but I honestly can't answer this anyway. Something like this has never happened to me or my immediate family and I don't have a son.
Click to expand...
That's a cop-out. After all, if your position is that Parker "should have" forced counseling on Trivino, but that you "can't answer" whether you'd do the same thing in similar circumstances, that is the definition of hypocritical.
 
Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Hokydad said:
He cant tell the parents but he can tell the school paper?

Cant kick off for several drinking violations or suspend for such, OR make sit out until he does but can toss Glass for not telling someone he wasnt going to an optional work out?

Ok
Click to expand...

You seem connected enough to know the actual story behind Glass, don't play dumb.
 
Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Hokydad said:
Interesting quotes/comments.



"Parker said it isn’t the first time Trivino has been involved in alcohol-related incidents"

“I had to get rid of Corey Trivino from our hockey team because I’d given him a warning in September that if he had another alcohol-related incident on or off campus, I would remove him from the team and take away his scholarship,’’ said Parker

Parker said he tried on more than one occasion to get Trivino to agree to alcohol counseling, but Trivino refused.

“I tried to get him to get some help,’’ said Parker. “I tried to get him to talk to some people regarding an alcohol problem.

"I know he’s a good kid and that’s not Corey’s M.O. except when he’s drinking. Some people can’t drink, he’s one of them.’’

“This has nothing to do with BU, this has to do with me,’’ said Parker. “He’s kicked out of school because I took his scholarship away. He can’t come back because he doesn’t have any money. BU hasn’t done a thing to him yet. They’ll talk to the girl and they’ll talk to Corey and they’ll make a decision on what his punishment will be, if any.

“My actions have taken BU’s actions out of the picture. They can’t do anything more to him than I’ve already done to him. They can’t kick him out of school, he’s not going to be here. I don’t mean that as good or bad, it’s just a fact."


And you want people to believe he should not have been told, "go to the drinking program or don't play, period"
Click to expand...

Man, I get what you're saying, but just look at brassbonanza's post a few above yours. Personally, I think it's spot on. Yes, you can believe he should have been forced to go, but just because Parker didn't doesn't make what he did wrong. A structured environment with support could have helped, it just didn't in this case. Enough with the right and wrong. It seems that the only thing that would satisfy you is if Parker did what YOU think was right.
 
Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

brassbonanza said:
But there is also just as rational of a thought that if Parker did this based on some relatively minor alcohol violation, one not involving police, or an arrest, or very serious charges, it would have lead to Corey getting more ****ed off because he thought he got kicked off for some BS reason, and it would've only compounded his alcohol problem.
Click to expand...

That's fair. I'm accepting both sides--that's my point.

Harry Cleverly said:
You can't truly get someone help until they are willing to accept help for themselves.

Trivino wouldn't accept that he had a problem, so he refused to get help.
Parker sets the rules and drew a line in the sand. Short of an intervention, there isn't much more that a coach can do - or maybe even should do - with a young man who is an adult, even if his behavior doesn't always reflect it.

The fact that Trivino had three prior alcohol-related incidents, and the stand that Parker took, shows that they didn't give up on him, which is a way of trying to help him.
The Parker-bashers can say that this is because they still wanted him as a player. Those involved in coaching and education would say otherwise.

Athletic departments and coaches set rules, regulations, standards of behavior and conduct. The athletes need to know what they are, what the consequences are of not living within them, and it is up to them to behave responsibly.
This should not be about babysitting or hand-holding, but helping them to grow into responsible and productive adults.

Coaches need to be fair, to be consistent and to care.
In this case, Parker did all of things. And he was decisive, which is a real teaching moment when it comes to hard lessons learned.
Click to expand...

We're going around in circles here. Everyone has accepted the fact that you can't force someone to get help if they don't want to be helped. Even by bringing up an intervention, you're admitting Parker *could* have done more. That's my only point. Not blaming Parker for Trivino's actions, just submitting that there are things he could have done differently. Some disagree. We don't have to keep going over it. It's also not fair to call the other side "Parker-bashers". I certainly haven't bashed him for this.

joen05 said:
It's possible it may not have happened at BU, but that is saying Parker doesn't let him play AND takes away his scholarship, which I don't think he (could?) would do without a major incident such as one that happened. It still may have happened. I don't know about the conditions on taking away a player's scholarship. Based on past players who have been removed from the team without major incident, they have been able to (or at least given the option to) keep their scholarships.
Click to expand...

I have to believe that a coach could pull a scholarship from someone who's had three alcohol related incidents. I don't know for sure though.
 
Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

J.D. said:
I'm not saying Parker could have forced him to get help. What I've said is he could have forced him to get help IF he wanted to continue playing at BU. This is not semantics. They are two entirely different scenarios. That's all I'm presenting. The second Trivino told Parker he didn't think he needed help, Parker could have said well you're not playing another game for me until you do.
Click to expand...

Yes, and MY assertion is that it would not have made a difference. You make it sound as though Trivino didn't really think that Parker would do it. Read the article in today's Globe:

“I tried to get him to get some help,’’ said Parker. “I tried to get him to talk to some people regarding an alcohol problem. He wouldn’t do it, he didn’t think he had an alcohol problem.’’ <b>Parker said he told Trivino he had a problem but Trivino disagreed.“</b> [I said] One of us is going to be right,’’’ said Parker. “I’m betting you’re going to be sitting in front of me before the semester is over and I’m going to be telling you, ‘You’re out of here.’ ’’

I understand that you feel incredulous, so there is nothing I can do to change your opinion, except to say that I don't agree. A friend of mine went to the eye doctor and was told that his pressure was so high that if he didn't have immediate surgery he could go blind. My friend's response was, "So what? If I go blind, I go blind." Was the doctor supposed to go ahead and do the surgery without the patient's consent?

There's only so far one can go. If Parker had thrown him off the team BEFORE he actually committed a violation, I can only imagine the number of people who would have been screaming "He didn't DO anything!!??!?!??!?!?"
 
Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

J.D. said:
Not that this makes any sense, but I didn't expect an intelligent retort from you. You surely didn't disappoint.
Click to expand...

You're quite welcome. I won't keep you from your pipe smoking and New Yorker magazine in that elite room in whatever place you're sitting. It's the one that smells of rich mahogany.

Humanoid..out
 
Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

joen05 said:
Man, I get what you're saying, but just look at brassbonanza's post a few above yours. Personally, I think it's spot on. Yes, you can believe he should have been forced to go, but just because Parker didn't doesn't make what he did wrong. A structured environment with support could have helped, it just didn't in this case. Enough with the right and wrong. It seems that the only thing that would satisfy you is if Parker did what YOU think was right.
Click to expand...

just debating, no right or wrong in hindsight. everyone loves to get last word in, me included
 
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