Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

[candycanes99]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

I agree that you need to want to be helped to be helped but it doesnt seem logical to give the person with the "disability" the right to determine treatment and it makes less sense to have designated nights they can get drunk and put to bed.

It's not the job of the coaching staff to babysit these guys 24/7. There is a designated night the players are allowed to drink, which is already a restriction. If it was banned at all times, you know what would happen; the rule would be broken all the time. You ban Trivino from drinking, he drinks anyway. Asking the team to watch out for him and do what they can to keep him in line is not the same as asking them to put him to bed when he gets drunk. However, they did just that because he was beyond their help. It's not their job to babysit him at that point either.

Maybe more could be done to prevent this, but I don't think anyone saw something of this severity coming.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

My only reason for the post was to rebut the people who insist on saying that the school (or Parker, or whomever) should have "gotten him help." Nobody can "get him help" if he doesn't acknowledge that he has a problem and refuses to be helped. The buck stops with HIM. I never meant to insinuate that Parker "handled it perfectly." My comments were CONFINED to my assertion that everyone wants to blame someone else (they should have done this...they should have done that). Well, "THEY" can't do anything - the person who is affected must be the one to take action. The issue of whether he still should have been on the team in the first place was not one that I was attempting to address, so if by "getting him help" you mean that he should have been kicked off the team earlier, I don't see how this directly addreses the alcohol problem (except that it just passes the buck to someone else by ridding the school of the student and therefore, by extension, the problem). I was only commenting on the futility of trying to "get help" for someone who doesn't want it. And all I can say to those who disagree is that you obviously have never encountered this type of situation.

I'm not saying Parker could have forced him to get help. What I've said is he could have forced him to get help IF he wanted to continue playing at BU. This is not semantics. They are two entirely different scenarios. That's all I'm presenting. The second Trivino told Parker he didn't think he needed help, Parker could have said well you're not playing another game for me until you do.

 

[Terrier520]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

I'm not saying Parker could have forced him to get help. What I've said is he could have forced him to get help IF he wanted to continue playing at BU. This is not semantics. They are two entirely different scenarios. That's all I'm presenting. The second Trivino told Parker he didn't think he needed help, Parker could have said well you're not playing another game for me until you do.

Assume Trivino doesn't get help, and doesn't continue playing for BU. That doesn't prevent the incident, per se.

 

[pirate]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

FOR THE LAST TIME, I am not condoning drunk driving, I am fully aware that it is a terrible thing to do. What I am saying, is that you don't have to be a Psychopath to have driven drunk, while you certainly do need to be one to have committed rape. Who would you rather live next to, a guy that got drunk at his senior prom 30 years ago and killed someone driving drunk and hasn't had a drink since or a rapist?

Defkit said it better than I but let's be clear here, nobody was raped in the manner you are implying. He is charged with attempt and I don't know that any of us could say it couldn't be dropped to a lesser charge. I would need to see the police report to understand what groping means in this instance to determine what the likelihood is that the charge could be increased or decreased.

As I mentioned earlier, I have two teenage daughters, so I don't take this lightly at all but the comparison you are making is not consistent with the facts or charges as we know them.

 

[Humanoid]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

This still doesn't mean Parker couldn't have said either you get help or you don't play for me.



Did you even read any of the articles out there on this? If you did, it would answer a lot of your questions. Obviously nobody here "knows" what happened. We're all going on what was reported. I don't care what category of drunk you'd put Trivino in...it's irrelevant to what's actually being reported.

He didn't break down a locked door, but he also was not "allowed" into the room by the RA. Again, you'd know this if you read the info out there. The press/sports blogs you speak of have not/are not "lynching" Trivino. They just reported the allegations/arrest. Why is it you have no problem "speculating" to try and mitigate what might have happened?

Alright I've sat by and not said a word, but you, sir, are totally out of line.

First of all - name me one college student that DOESNT have an alcohol problem. How blind can you be? when you go to college, that's how it works. You drink. You make stupid decisions. You try not to make a dumb decision like what Trivino did. He made a hugely DUMB decision that'll affect him for the rest of his life. But to call him out for drinking - he's a HOCKEY PLAYER IN COLLEGE. He's honestly not drinking more than any other hockey player in college. And that's the facts. Whether or not we want to admit it or debate it - the facts are that hockey players are notorious for this reason, and we can't really hide from that fact. It is what it is.

Secondly - Jack Parker did nothing wrong. jack Parker has been around college kids long enough to know that kids get into trouble with alcohol. He knows that hockey players get into trouble with alcohol. As long as they're just getting it out of their system and partying on a Wednesday, as long as they're getting their work done, then who cares? Jack did NOTHING wrong. He spoke with Trivino and said "look kid...you got issues, one mroe and you're done." Trivino then made a hugely dumb decision that probably would've gotten him thrown out of school/off the team anyways. JP did absolutely nothing wrong in this situation; he gave the kid every opportunity to sow his oats, be a 20-something year old male, and make his decisions. He treated him like an adult, and there are 57 other Division I coaches who treat their students the same way.

Thirdly - We are talking about an ALLEGED incident. Do I think he's guilty? Personally? Yes. But, he deserves his day in court and he deserves his day to fight this. There have been false accusations before, and we don't know the details. You're being so sanctimonious about this; you probably still think Duke lacrosse is guilty.

Fourth - Let he without sin cast the first stone. You're such a perfect angel?

Fifth - It's easy to lob grenades at people anonymously from behind a forum. Would you do this if you had the chance to stand in front of Corey Trivino, Jack Parker, and BU administration? I highly doubt it sir. I odn't know you; I don't know anything about you. But you are way out of line.

 

[Humanoid]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

And please note that I am not condoning alcoholism, binge drinking, or rape. I'm just saying that people drink in college. We all did it. Some more than others. You just try to handle yourself and if you can't handle yourself, you learn from it and move on. Trivino's not guilty (as of right now) of being anything but a complete idiot. If he's convicted of the charges, then he's an attempted rapist.......and an idiot.

 

[limey]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

I'm not saying Parker could have forced him to get help. What I've said is he could have forced him to get help IF he wanted to continue playing at BU. This is not semantics. They are two entirely different scenarios. That's all I'm presenting. The second Trivino told Parker he didn't think he needed help, Parker could have said well you're not playing another game for me until you do.

JD - I will pose the same question to you that I did to Hokydad. Under the scenario (post 580, below) at what point do you force your son to go to rehab?

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

First of all - name me one college student that DOESNT have an alcohol problem.

You lost me in the 2nd sentence of your long post. Not good. Try sticking around in reality for a few more sentences at least...

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Even more quotes from Parker here: http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2011/...Yihrok9qdxE52m6iK/story.html?s_campaign=sm_fb

Nothing really that new, but he elaborates more. Very, very unusual for him to be this open about a situation like this.

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

You lost me in the 2nd sentence of your long post. Not good. Try stick around in reality for a few more sentences at least...

Wait, are you saying you don't think lots of college students have an alcohol problem? You can't really think that to be the case.

 

[joen05]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Assume Trivino doesn't get help, and doesn't continue playing for BU. That doesn't prevent the incident, per se.

I think this is most accurate. We can all say that Parker should have forced Trivino to get help. Parker suggested it, and left it up to Trivino, an adult, to make the decision for himself. He chose not to, and proceeded to be an idiot about it. What if JP says that Trivino can't play until he gets help, and Trivino decides to leave on his own accord w/o getting help. Like Terrier250 said, it doesn't necessarily prevent this incident. If this happens anyway, and Trivino just happens to not be on the team when it happens, do we still blame JP for not doing enough? We can't know if playing was the only thing that kept it from spiraling out of control even more quickly. Would it have been possible for Parker to force Corey to get help and have it work in order to play? Of course. However, there are too many possible scenarios for us to determine one "right" course of action. All we can do is let the events play out now. What's done is done.

 

[Rover]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Hindsight is 20/20. I'm never one to shill for Parker, but I think he handled this well. No indication this was going to happen just because he was a boozer. A 21 year old has to take responsibility for his actions, not pawn it off on the coach, the school, or frankly even his parents.

Regarding "he hasn't been convicted of anything yet", people need to give that up. Neither has Sandusky at Penn St, and based on that fact I don't think too many people want to see him continue to work with kids up to the day of his conviction, now do we?

 

[Hokydad]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

You're mixing apples with oranges here. The fact that the team (including Trivino) is permitted to drink has nothing to do with the ban on any more alcohol related "incidents" imposed on Trivino. I think Parker would be hard pressed to impose or enforce a "no drinking" policy on any 21+ year old player. And I don't read anything about a policy where hockey players are "allowed" (which suggests sanctioned or encouraged) to get drunk and get put to bed.

Moreover, you're taking what Parker is saying out of context. I don't read that to say that Trivino has a drinking problem (such as dependence) but instead that the root of the problems (e.g., missing practice) is alcohol, as opposed to, for example, laziness or incompetence.

I know you have an axe to grind with Parker, but let me ask this. Assume that you have a 19-year old son who commutes from home to college and lives with you. Generally, he is a nice kid, has no history of drinking, violent crime or drug use. Then assume he gets caught splitting a 6-pack of Bud Light with 2 of his buddies in the nearby public park by the police and they bring him home by the scruff of his neck. A year later, he is at a friend's house party on the school campus and the campus police break it up and give him a citation for drinking underage. Now assume, 3 months after his 21st birthday, he gets very drunk with his friends on a Thursday night after handing in a big mid-term assignment, takes a cab home, and misses a morning class.

Further assuming that he has no other "infraction" and is otherwise a good student, at which point in this scenario do you send your son to rehab?

Good points, zero axe to grind. No clue what level the issue in regards to drinking is. If not for Parker telling us he has a serious drinking issue, not one human being would have a clue outside him and his teammates. When the coach says he has a serious drinking issue, I would assume you could asume that to be the case.

Good points by you, outside the serious drinking feedback.

 

[Hokydad]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Alright I've sat by and not said a word, but you, sir, are totally out of line.

First of all - name me one college student that DOESNT have an alcohol problem. How blind can you be? when you go to college, that's how it works. You drink. You make stupid decisions. You try not to make a dumb decision like what Trivino did. He made a hugely DUMB decision that'll affect him for the rest of his life. But to call him out for drinking - he's a HOCKEY PLAYER IN COLLEGE. He's honestly not drinking more than any other hockey player in college. And that's the facts. Whether or not we want to admit it or debate it - the facts are that hockey players are notorious for this reason, and we can't really hide from that fact. It is what it is.(QUOTE)

We can only hope this is not true. I doubt the players at West Point and the Air Force Academy have these drinking issues, at least during the season. So at least strike 2 teams off your list.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Assume Trivino doesn't get help, and doesn't continue playing for BU. That doesn't prevent the incident, per se.

You can't say that. Just like I can't say it would have. The thought it that kicking him off the team and revoking his scholarship so close to graduating would be the wake up call he truly needed.

Alright I've sat by and not said a word, but you, sir, are totally out of line.

First of all - name me one college student that DOESNT have an alcohol problem. How blind can you be? when you go to college, that's how it works. You drink. You make stupid decisions. You try not to make a dumb decision like what Trivino did. He made a hugely DUMB decision that'll affect him for the rest of his life. But to call him out for drinking - he's a HOCKEY PLAYER IN COLLEGE. He's honestly not drinking more than any other hockey player in college. And that's the facts. Whether or not we want to admit it or debate it - the facts are that hockey players are notorious for this reason, and we can't really hide from that fact. It is what it is.

Secondly - Jack Parker did nothing wrong. jack Parker has been around college kids long enough to know that kids get into trouble with alcohol. He knows that hockey players get into trouble with alcohol. As long as they're just getting it out of their system and partying on a Wednesday, as long as they're getting their work done, then who cares? Jack did NOTHING wrong. He spoke with Trivino and said "look kid...you got issues, one mroe and you're done." Trivino then made a hugely dumb decision that probably would've gotten him thrown out of school/off the team anyways. JP did absolutely nothing wrong in this situation; he gave the kid every opportunity to sow his oats, be a 20-something year old male, and make his decisions. He treated him like an adult, and there are 57 other Division I coaches who treat their students the same way.

Thirdly - We are talking about an ALLEGED incident. Do I think he's guilty? Personally? Yes. But, he deserves his day in court and he deserves his day to fight this. There have been false accusations before, and we don't know the details. You're being so sanctimonious about this; you probably still think Duke lacrosse is guilty.

Fourth - Let he without sin cast the first stone. You're such a perfect angel?

Fifth - It's easy to lob grenades at people anonymously from behind a forum. Would you do this if you had the chance to stand in front of Corey Trivino, Jack Parker, and BU administration? I highly doubt it sir. I odn't know you; I don't know anything about you. But you are way out of line.

Who the bleep are you? And are you sure you quoted the right person? For you to say that EVERY college student has an alcohol problem is the single dumbest thing I've read on this whole matter. And you're somehow calling me blind? There won't be one person on here who agrees with you that EVERY college student has an "alcohol problem". Again, what on earth are you responding to? When did I call out Trivino for simply "drinking"? Jack Parker himself said he thinks Trivino has a drinking problem and you have the gall to say it's no different than any other player? Are you out of your mind?

I never said Jack Parker did anything "wrong". All I said was I have no problem with people who think he should have booted Trivino after the 3rd incident or require him to get help BEFORE he could play for BU again. Those people are most certainly not wrong. Nor are the people who think Parker handled it "perfectly". Partying on a Wednesday? Do you realize that is against Parker's own rules? Did you even read anything that was reported? You can say all you want that Parker did nothing wrong. That doesn't mean people can't disagree with that. I'm of the opinion he gave Trivino one too many opportunities.

Do you even know what sanctimonious means? You're right about something, it's an alleged incident. And...YOU think he's guilty. Just like I do. So where's the disconnect? If he's found innocent of everything, then I will admit I was wrong. I just don't think that's gonna happen. He will be found guilty of something here.

Great point on #4 though. Numbnuts, I've never been arrested for these types of charges...I've never been arrested period. What a horrible comparison. Yes, I've sinned, so that puts me on the same level as Trivino

What grenades have I launched at Trivino? I haven't speculated on a **** thing. I'm simply going off of what was reported just like everyone else here. What exactly have I said here that you'd like me to say to Trivino and Parker in person? That I think Parker should have booted him after the 3rd offense? If that's the case, yes, I'd have no problem saying that. It's my freakin' opinion.

I'm not out of line in regard to anything I've said here. You just provided the single dumbest post of this entire thread. Congrats, dope.

JD - I will pose the same question to you that I did to Hokydad. Under the scenario (post 580, below) at what point do you force your son to go to rehab?

Coach-player is not the same as father-son, but I honestly can't answer this anyway. Something like this has never happened to me or my immediate family and I don't have a son.

 

[Humanoid]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

You lost me in the 2nd sentence of your long post. Not good. Try sticking around in reality for a few more sentences at least...

I promise next time I'll write in small sentences using small words for you. Like cat. C-A-T. Cat.

 

[Humanoid]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

You can't say that. Just like I can't say it would have. The thought it that kicking him off the team and revoking his scholarship so close to graduating would be the wake up call he truly needed.



Who the bleep are you? And are you sure you quoted the right person? For you to say that EVERY college student has an alcohol problem is the single dumbest thing I've read on this whole matter. And you're somehow calling me blind? There won't be one person on here who agrees with you that EVERY college student has an "alcohol problem". Again, what on earth are you responding to? When did I call out Trivino for simply "drinking"? Jack Parker himself said he thinks Trivino has a drinking problem and you have the gall to say it's no different than any other player? Are you out of your mind?

I never said Jack Parker did anything "wrong". All I said was I have no problem with people who think he should have booted Trivino after the 3rd incident or require him to get help BEFORE he could play for BU again. Those people are most certainly not wrong. Nor are the people who think Parker handled it "perfectly". Partying on a Wednesday? Do you realize that is against Parker's own rules? Did you even read anything that was reported? You can say all you want that Parker did nothing wrong. That doesn't mean people can't disagree with that. I'm of the opinion he gave Trivino one too many opportunities.

Do you even know what sanctimonious means? You're right about something, it's an alleged incident. And...YOU think he's guilty. Just like I do. So where's the disconnect? If he's found innocent of everything, then I will admit I was wrong. I just don't think that's gonna happen. He will be found guilty of something here.

Great point on #4 though. Numbnuts, I've never been arrested for these types of charges...I've never been arrested period. What a horrible comparison. Yes, I've sinned, so that puts me on the same level as Trivino

What grenades have I launched at Trivino? I haven't speculated on a **** thing. I'm simply going off of what was reported just like everyone else here. What exactly have I said here that you'd like me to say to Trivino and Parker in person? That I think Parker should have booted him after the 3rd offense? If that's the case, yes, I'd have no problem saying that. It's my freakin' opinion.

I'm not out of line in regard to anything I've said here. You just provided the single dumbest post of this entire thread. Congrats, dope.



Coach-player is not the same as father-son, but I honestly can't answer this anyway. Something like this has never happened to me or my immediate family and I don't have a son.

Hey at least I've accomplished something then. I'm sure when I put this on my resume, it'll be among my prouder accomplishments, right next to inventor of inflatable dartboard and "BC fan"

 

[pirate]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

I'm not saying Parker could have forced him to get help. What I've said is he could have forced him to get help IF he wanted to continue playing at BU. This is not semantics. They are two entirely different scenarios. That's all I'm presenting. The second Trivino told Parker he didn't think he needed help, Parker could have said well you're not playing another game for me until you do.

Let me ask you this...if your son or daughter told you that their coach, not a psychologist, social worker or doctor, but a hockey coach, had diagnosed them with a drinking problem and was threatening to take away their scholarship, which could cost them their NHL future, unless they conformed to his solution for this diagnosis, what would you do? Any chance you have your lawyer on your speed dial?

I think Parker, and all long-tenured coaches, have a lot of latitude with how they run their program but the lawyers, Hippa and privacy people would tell them they can't be diagnosing kids for illnesses and threatening to pull their scholarship based on same.

Can Parker unofficially tell someone they have a problem, sure, he can 'say' anything. But to go to the college and tell them you are effectively dismissing a kid from the school, who has a financial future based on his participation in your program, and disclosing your hockey coach diagnosis of his illness to the public (which also harms his future earning potential) would get a big "No you're not!!" from administration.

I can't say if the college could/would honor a scholarship for someone who was removed from their team due to drinking issues. Ironically, Trivino probably had a better chance if he admitted the problem, went into a program and possibly benefitted from being 'protected'.

I've had this argument with people on here before, Parker also can't tell the parents any of this information...the player is an adult and there are privacy laws all over the place.

He addressed it with an adult and put out the options...the player decided to ignore the direction of a 39 year veteran coach who benefits indirectly if Trivino succeeds in life. His lack of faith in Parker's direction is a huge mistake for this young man.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

What if JP says that Trivino can't play until he gets help, and Trivino decides to leave on his own accord w/o getting help. Like Terrier250 said, it doesn't necessarily prevent this incident. If this happens anyway, and Trivino just happens to not be on the team when it happens, do we still blame JP for not doing enough? We can't know if playing was the only thing that kept it from spiraling out of control even more quickly. Would it have been possible for Parker to force Corey to get help and have it work in order to play? Of course. However, there are too many possible scenarios for us to determine one "right" course of action. All we can do is let the events play out now. What's done is done.

Well, it would have prevented the incident from happening at BU, no? I am not blaming Jack Parker for what happened. I just don't have a problem with people who support the scenarios I've presented. As you said, neither side is right/wrong.

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Hindsight is 20/20. I'm never one to shill for Parker, but I think he handled this well. No indication this was going to happen just because he was a boozer. A 21 year old has to take responsibility for his actions, not pawn it off on the coach, the school, or frankly even his parents.

Regarding "he hasn't been convicted of anything yet", people need to give that up. Neither has Sandusky at Penn St, and based on that fact I don't think too many people want to see him continue to work with kids up to the day of his conviction, now do we?

I agree that this isn't an ordinary circumstance of a kid who is showing up late to practice and committing violations rooted to not caring. If Parker truly believed he had an alcohol problem, which is basically classified as a disease, it isn't necessarily handled the same way as the kid who is lazy and just doesn't show up to practice. Of course, there was no (as far as we know) history of his alcohol problems resulting in any kind of violence toward himself or others, so Parker had no prior reason to be concerned about that. If I had to put myself in Parker's head, I'd guess his thought was, it would be better for Corey to be in a structured environment where his teammates, with whom he seemed to like and trust, and they liked him as well, were told to keep a watchful eye on him, as a form of indirect alcohol therapy, along with a coaching staff that could serve as adults he respected and followed, all in hopes that that type of environment would lead to him being able to overcome his problem. Frankly, if the options were this or throw him out for something like getting drunk and thrown out of a bar and have him be on his own, with no structure, no one to guide him, I'd say the former was the option that would more likely lead to Corey overcoming his problem. Certainly if he got thrown out prior and went to play in some minor league somewhere, he's not going to have the support staff that he did at BU, he's not going to have the university resources, he's going to have unfamiliar teammates who likely won't care what he does when he leaves the rink, he'll probably be in an unfamiliar city, constantly traveling and staying in hotels with easy access to alcohol, all without anyone to serve as a guide.

I'd submit that there was NO perfect way to handle this situation, and that Parker did what he thought would be best for Corey and for the university. There was no reason for him to believe that Corey was a threat to the university community, so he wasn't keeping around someone with any history of violence. There were many more students at BU during my time, who were not thrown out, that I would have considered to be a much greater threat to others because of their alcohol consumption than I would have considered Corey this past summer.